Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim announced

[Slowtrain]

And anyway as both Hurlie and Virunor pointed out FO3 is different, and much much improved, in regards to level scaling.

 

The level scaling is far les intrusive, partially because there are no npc pig farmers and goat herders wearing elven cuirasses and carrying ebony claymores. and hopefully this FO3 approach will carry over into Skyrim.

[Hurlshort]

As long as there are arctic mud crabs, it is a first day purchase for me.

[entrerix]

my guess is they implement a similar system to fallout 3 with regard to world leveling, but still keep that broken ass level up by using system they've had for so long.

 

i would be stoked if they changed it to an exp system, but they won't so im not gonna let it bother me if they fix the level scaling and they go back to more hand placed loot

[Slowtrain]

my guess is they implement a similar system to fallout 3 with regard to world leveling, but still keep that broken ass level up by using system they've had for so long.

 

i would be stoked if they changed it to an exp system, but they won't so im not gonna let it bother me if they fix the level scaling and they go back to more hand placed loot

 

 

I'd love to see an xp system as well, but like you I think it unlikely.

 

If they would just get rid of the variations in the modifier for stat increases at level up and just gave every char a consistent number that would be enough to make me very happy.

 

One problem with th current ES char system is that skill books and bobbleheads aren't worth very much, so they'd have to rethink how to replace those.

[Pidesco]

However, almost all the characters in both games are still a variation of random NPC n

[Syraxis]

I hope they write a bunch of new in-game books, always loved reading those.

 

The book store in Vivec comes to mind.

 

Also: regarding dungeons I hope they in at least some small ways do the obsidian method (associate quests/small storyline with said dungeon).

Edited December 16, 2010 by Syraxis

[Thorton_AP]

As long as there are arctic mud crabs, it is a first day purchase for me.

 

Filthy creatures!

[Meshugger]

Yeah, i avoid them whenever i can.

[sorophx]

I could never find the mudcrab capitalist in Morrowind

[Tale]

I don't mind level scaling. I mind bad level scaling.

 

The levelling system of Oblivion is a very complicated thing. There's absolutely no way to assume what has advanced in a player level to level. But they still pumped up HP and damage for enemies anyway.

 

As a stealth specialist, stealth is what would be the vast majority of my levelling. This only helps so far. I could sneak up on enemies in Oblivion, but all I'd get is the sneak attack. Then creamed. My sword and armor didn't go up nearly enough each level to manage.

 

And then after a while, it'd be manageable again. After I grind out sword and armor. Until late game, where my stealth became so high they wouldn't detect me even after the sneak attack. But it still took 7 or 8 max multiplier sneak attacks to kill a light armored bandit.

 

There was no intelligence to the scaling. If you're aiming to make an experience that provides dynamic challenges in response to player advancement, you need to pay attention to the details of player advancement. Sin Episodes: Emergence taught me that, despite it's bug. If the player had too much ammo, it dropped less ammo. If the player had too much health, it dropped less health.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Tale

[WDeranged]

I hope they write a bunch of new in-game books, always loved reading those.

 

The book store in Vivec comes to mind.

 

Also: regarding dungeons I hope they in at least some small ways do the obsidian method (associate quests/small storyline with said dungeon).

 

I thought Fallout 3's non quest dungeons were very well designed with plenty of little lore tidbits, New Vegas ****s all over it when it comes to plot but I really do think Bethsoft are better at environments, I'm sure that Skyrim is going to be great to explore but I'll be very let down if the quest structure and plot get derped.

 

*edit*

 

More books please, **** yes

Edited December 16, 2010 by WDeranged

[WorstUsernameEver]

I thought Fallout 3's non quest dungeons were very well designed with plenty of little lore tidbits,

 

They all looked the same to me.

[HoonDing]

And then after a while, it'd be manageable again. After I grind out sword and armor. Until late game, where my stealth became so high they wouldn't detect me even after the sneak attack. But it still took 7 or 8 max multiplier sneak attacks to kill a light armored bandit.

Did you use poisons and enchantments?

[sorophx]

They all looked the same to me.

they don't have to *look* different not like they looked different in FO2. besides, most underground facilities were made by Vault-Tek, they should look similar because of unification.

 

they have to play different, which is what WD said, I think.

[WorstUsernameEver]

They all looked the same to me.

they don't have to *look* different not like they looked different in FO2. besides, most underground facilities were made by Vault-Tek, they should look similar because of unification.

 

they have to play different, which is what WD said, I think.

 

You have no right to talk until you play Shadow of the Colossus. Fo' real this time.

 

That said, I'm not sure what the hell you're saying. Fallout 2 didn't have dungeon crawler-type locations. And underground facilities made by Vault-Tek? What? Seriously, are you talking about the same thing as me? Most of the game dungeons were either metros or office buildings.

[Tale]

And then after a while, it'd be manageable again. After I grind out sword and armor. Until late game, where my stealth became so high they wouldn't detect me even after the sneak attack. But it still took 7 or 8 max multiplier sneak attacks to kill a light armored bandit.

Did you use poisons and enchantments?

Poisons are cumbersome to use against every single bandit you come across. No to echantments, since I was levelling an Assassin, not a mage.

[sorophx]

You have no right to talk until you play Shadow of the Colossus. Fo' real this time.

but I have I actually have two copies of the game, one I bought and one was given to me as a gift

 

and why would you expect the subway stations to look different? it's not Stockholm

[Cairn]

My biggest complaint about Oblivion is that all the monsters level up with you, and were pretty much uniform across the whole game world. There was no real excitement to exploring new areas because you would meet the same few types of monster populations. I like the fear of possibly stumbling into an area too difficult for my level, and the amusement of reaching high levels and demolishing the common bandits that I once feared. I like some unpredictability in my exploration of a sandbox type game world. Oblivion failed pretty miserably in this regard, but fortunately there were some mods that helped things.

 

The levelling system was also flawed, but I'm not opposed to a "learn-by-doing" system in principle. I think the biggest flaw in Oblivion's specific implementation of "learn-by-doing" was the vast disparity in stats that you could have by level 15-20 if you didn't deliberately plan and train your skills. I found that just playing naturally (as a learn-by-doing system is supposed to encourage) would usually get me a bunch of x2 stat increase options, and one or two x3 options. This would average half the total stat increase value as someone who deliberately chose what skills to practice to make sure they always had three x5 stats.

 

A simple fix would be to just give everyone 5 points to distribute each level, and use the exact same formula that was used for multipliers in Oblivion, but use it as a cap rather than a multiplier. If you want to raise one stat a lot in a single level, you need to focus on relevant skills, but playing naturally will not give you a net loss in total stat gains. Five points per level would probably be a bit less than most people averaged in Oblivion as well, so it would make it harder to make a master-of-everything character, and make character build choices a bit more meaningful.

 

I'd also like to see the Fallout style conversation system added to the Elder Scrolls series. It really is better.

 

-Kasoroth

 

 

I cannot agree with you on the "learn-by-doing" leveling system. I personally love the "learn-by-doing" system. I don't know what you mean by the x3 x5 thing, so I have no opinion regarding that portion of the learn-by-doing system in Oblivion. And as for the disparity in skills, well of course, if you didn't practice the said skills. I loved that part of the system as well. Of course, I haven't played the game again in over a year due to some glitch that causes doors to open slowly, so I've forgotten some things about it. What I do remember, is that I loved many of the ways Oblivion did things. I don't exactly remember any of the pet-peaves that I had about the game, although I do remember that there were some.

 

The reason I love the learn-by-doing system is because I am one that loves to get immersed into the virtual reality that I am playing. I love the learn-by-doing leveling system because it adds a level of reality that I very much appreciate and it does it's part in not reminding me that I'm playing a game. Not only that, but I found that the learning-by-doing system helped to change up the goals and play of my game. It gave me a reason and a goal to focus on with something like brewing potions or collecting herbs so that I can strengthen my alchemy skills. This was especially true with Oblivion where sometimes, after a while, it started to seem like every mission was just more of the same more or less, go get this or go kill that over in yonder place. Having that "learning-by-doing" helped to give me a purpose for taking my focus off of that for a while and focus on something different for a change. Also, I knew that every time I fell and got really hurt either by the falling or by constantly getting hit when I was almost out of health potions meant that it was all for the better in the long-term because every time that happened, I progressed towards being a little bit stronger due largely to the learning-by-doing system in Oblivion.

 

As for your opinion about the monsters and other enemies leveling up with you, I couldn't agree with you more. I'll tell you, if I ever designed an RPG game, it would be open-world, and I would set up a system of universal physics that applied to all characters realistically, (i.e. I wouldn't have animals arrested for biting/killing a person, but a hunting party might be sent after them) and to agree with you, there would be varying levels of enemies in different places, most designated, some not, all throughout the land. Some very high that you would have to wait until you were a high level to face, and some very low. Also, you'd have to be more careful, as in my game, you wouldn't be able to outrun a wolf. However, at the same time, I'd increase the character's awareness, probably through skills, of surroundings such as markings or tracks so that the player could be warned before running into a wolf. Although, the wolf may elect to run away if the player is not in it's territory, as most wolves prefer not to be seen by humans. I'd also increase the dynamics of sneaking and camouflage as hunters are often able to avoid wolves and bears altogether. (Likewise, in my game, enemies wouldn't always be on the routes between cities as those routes would be cleared every so often by the nearby cities. People would be able to report crimes and other issues, and the crimes would not be immediately reported upon being caught or seen. The knowledge of the crime could only travel from person to person, in other words people would not know about it unless somebody who knew actually got near enough to them to have conceivably told them.) My real wish is that people would come up with a game that just sets the basic rules of physics and law, and then allows the player to be as truly free as possible to be inventive, innovative, and resourceful about accomplishing missions or attaining personal goals such as building a little castle or creating a small militia to lead or inventing new potions with varying strengths. Oblivion did some of that with their spell creation and alchemy that allowed us to brew whatever ingredients we wanted to see what would happen.

[entrerix]

"your game" sounds pretty neat, go make some millions and make it happen.

 

the learn by doing system is awesome in theory, but is broken in elder scrolls because of those x2 x3 x4 x5 thingies you cant remember well. those are the multipliers added to your stats on levelling up, and they can be totally screwed up depending on the skills you chose for your character. its a metagaming nightmare, and it creates problems for many different character builds, which there is no way to predict unless you intimitaly understand the system before beginning your game.

 

and once you know how the system works... it becomes a lot less magical and a lot more frustrating. giving a uniform amount of stat points on level up, and getting rid of level scaling, would fix 85% of what I don't like about it though.

Edited December 17, 2010 by entrerix

[HoonDing]

Oblivion's level scaling at least has the saving grace of introducing new enemy types (Daedroths, Spider Daedra, Xivilai, etc) as you level up.

 

In for instance Dragon Age you fight the same enemy types the entire game, with only added HP and damage. Not to mention in DA combat can never be avoided; Oblivion at least has the Invisibility spell.

[entrerix]

lack of enemy variety is one of my top 3 complaints about dragon age. i never want to see another genlock or hurlock ever again.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

lack of enemy variety is one of my top 3 complaints about dragon age. i never want to see another genlock or hurlock ever again.

Yeah that's... that's not going to happen. I'm ready to bet there'll be more Deep Roads in DA2.

[Maria Caliban]

I keep on thinking that if I start a game of Oblivion and install just the right combination of mods, I'll get a play experience I'll enjoy.

[Maria Caliban]

Does anyone recall whether the Oblivion disks came in a DVD case, jewel case, or paper slips? I am searching for mine to no avail.

[Meshugger]

It was a DVD case for me, but that was the GOTY edition.