FO: NV (General Discussion)

[LadyCrimson]

I suppose all my years of playing games like Diablo has inured me to the concept of fetch quests. I generally don't care if they exist. It's true that if they're all very very simple ones ("get me 10 bear skins!" ala WoW) I'll find it exasperating after a while, but I guess I find most of the quests in NV to be at least better than that, so I don't care. I know a lot of them are in the vein of "Kill so and so" or "get info from..." or "find 5 entertainers" but the fact there are usually dialogue options for different ways of solving/doing them makes it less of 'fetch' to me. I mean, how else are you going to design/initially set up a quest but to tell someone to go somewhere to do something, whether it's finding an item or talking to an npc or pulling a switch? It's what's within it/where it may lead to that's more important, imo. The end of the debated quest is interesting, thus to me it's not really a fetch quest, it's a "npc history/motivation quest."

 

I have more antipathy against being forced to run through multiple loading screens in order to get to a merchant or area, that you need to go to multiple times, ala Camp McCarran or The Strip.

Edited December 5, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[sorophx]

Well, I generally expect area designers to limit their reliance on fetch quests.

and then, what are they left with? assassination/killing spree (which is essentially the same thing as a FedEx-quest, because you're required to bring something to the quest-giver). it's not a matter of the kind of quests, but how they're done. and, in my opinion, this particular one is an example of a very well thought-out quest. you don't just have to run there and back, you have to visit all of the locations first, possibly exploring their surroundings. not to mention that some of the stations had their very own quests.

 

it took me a lot of time to complete it. I approached it as bonus xp for exploring places I would've visited anyway. but now I had a purpose. it was a good way to make the ranger stations useful (to counter the FO3's "a lot of places don't have anything, they're just there for the numbers" thing).

 

EDIT: ah, C got there first

Edited December 5, 2010 by sorophx

[WorstUsernameEver]

Talent Pool was much less of a chore since all the artists were relatively close and it had some genuinely entertaining dialogue and speech options.

 

Return to Sender was: 30 minutes of trekking through the gently caressing Mojave Wasteland then 'here's some codes' 'oh, okay'. Repeat 6 times. Then Fast Travel to those same 6 stations again and ask them about the reports. Then go to Chief Hanlon. Quest finished.

 

It's just marginally better than the 'bring me X of Y'... and New Vegas has plenty of quests of that type too.

 

Overall, the quest design of the game is mostly good, but I get the impressions that Obsidian overexerted itself and came up with some pretty poor work too.

[Ausir]

I'm saying that in a sandbox environment there's no need to force the player through a long fetch quest to make him explore.

 

Depends on a player. I don't really have much motivation to just explore any areas if they are not connected to any quests I were given. I don't have much issue with Return to Sender. Still in the Dark on the other hand...

Edited December 6, 2010 by Ausir

[Tigranes]

The great thing about NV is that there are so many bloody quests, it doesn't irk me to skip a couple of them - and I have a pretty bad case of completionist. I think there are a couple of NV quests that are pretty much worthless (i.e. totally not worth the work) - the emo Khan, the Boomers love letter delivery - and then a couple that you sort of need to do but are really annoying. Ausir's right in that Still in the Dark is a lot more annoying, actually, with Return to Sender you at least have the fun of finding these well hidden Ranger camps.

 

....if only you didn't have to go to them a second time for no reason whatsoever.

[Cantousent]

Yeah, but the second time it's a fast travel frenzy. Return to Sender is well worth the effort in terms of the end.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Yeah, Still in the Dark.. almost forgot about that.. urgh..

 

Anyway, we should really open a modding thread.

 

Since we don't have one at the moment: Detailed Normal Maps. Basically a guy didn't like the bump mapping in the game and took it upon himself to rework the normal maps of the game. What's more important: they're of the same resolution of the game's default and there's no noticeable performance decrease.

Here's a screenshot made by myself that shows the result. Some may find it a little bit too bumpy, obviously.

Edited December 6, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[Bendu]

https://twitter.com/#!/Fallout

We

[Ausir]

I think there are a couple of NV quests that are pretty much worthless (i.e. totally not worth the work) - the emo Khan, the Boomers love letter delivery

 

Well, I just did these while I was in the area anyway, didn't really travel specifically to finish them.

[LadyCrimson]

Well, I just did these while I was in the area anyway, didn't really travel specifically to finish them.

Yea, that's what happens to me too. I think "I don't want to go back there right now" so I don't, but then some other quest I do want to do takes me back or near there so I figure why not.

Edited December 6, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Tale]

Official forums are upgraded. I don't know what to make of it. This is the first day that its bothered actually remembering my login, so that's good.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Talent Pool was much less of a chore since all the artists were relatively close and it had some genuinely entertaining dialogue and speech options.

 

Return to Sender was: 30 minutes of trekking through the gently caressing Mojave Wasteland then 'here's some codes' 'oh, okay'. Repeat 6 times. Then Fast Travel to those same 6 stations again and ask them about the reports. Then go to Chief Hanlon. Quest finished.

 

It's just marginally better than the 'bring me X of Y'... and New Vegas has plenty of quests of that type too.

 

Overall, the quest design of the game is mostly good, but I get the impressions that Obsidian overexerted itself and came up with some pretty poor work too.

Fetch quests mixed with more complex quests are OK, especially if it's a way to direct exploration as is often the case in NV. But fast travelling to all the locations just to hear a sentence was ridiculous, the whole thing was just a long sequence of loading screens, especially painful on a console, drove me nuts. Also if you're going to have me run 10 times between the Kings and the Followers of Apocalypse, why the hell not at least put them right next to each other?

[LadyCrimson]

Yay, Beth forums are up. They look...flatter. Don't like the font. Otherwise not much different. As long as I can read and post. Yak yak yak. (you'll have to excuse me, I haven't slept).

 

whole thing was just a long sequence of loading screens, especially painful on a console, drove me nuts

Oh yeah...I forgot about those really really long load times on console for some people. In that case, such quests would annoy the heck out of me for technical reasons. Yar.

[Amentep]

Even with the load screens I didn't mind it the quest since there's no need to finish the quest right then and there, I typically find the ranger stations first go around, fast travel at some later point when I feel like it.

 

 

As to the fort; I did think it was weird the Mormon fort wasn't a fast travel location by itself, though (but even then its three loads to it from Kings Impersonation (one out of the building, one to the north Freeside section, one to the fort) and two back (one to fast travel to The Strip gate, one into the Kings building).

 

To tell the truth for the most part if I don't feel like doing a quest, I wait and do it when I feel like it later.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Amentep

[Tigranes]

Freeside is probably the worst designed area in such terms - iot's nonsensically cut and its key locations are also haphazardly placed, so that it doesn't feel like a community at all, it might as well be part of the rest of the surrounding Vegas landscape. IMcCarran and Hoover Dam wouldn't be so bad with better fast travel points.

[Cantousent]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Freeside was split. I'm sure there must be some reason, but it made the area a pain simply because walking a short distance in the same suburb called for changing the zone, which was weird. I can see that with the Ol' Mormon Fort, but I don't understand the deal with the rest of freeside. It didn't make a huge deal to me, but I think it had some small impact on how I enjoyed the quests there. ...And I can see why it had more impact for others.

[Humanoid]

I didn't mind it so much, except for the random Kings guy who runs up to you to give you a worthless food item now and then. The randomly respawning thugs are a bit irritating too I guess, they die before I notice them but the slow-mo effect from combat mode popping up as a result is distracting (I know, I should turn it off).

 

I can see the loading time issue, but a pleasant surprise is how quickly stuff loads even installed on my 5400rpm spindle drive. (Too lazy to split Steam directory) No idea about console load times though - do they play nice with aftermarket SSD installations?

 

 

That said, I could see the content-thin west and north sides cut and moved into Freeside to take up the sprawling empty blocks.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Humanoid

[TheHarlequin]

With no fast travel, I seriously doubt that the Lucky 38 in the most significant place for most players. Of course, I can only speak for myself, and I wasn't much into it.

 

By the way, I got a more or less good ending for the BoS last time, Harlie. I have to say, there's really no 'good' ending for them per se. Doesn't matter who's in charge. Doesn't matter whether you finish Veronica's quest. Basically, they can exist longer and dwindle or be extinguished as a force immediately.

 

That really sucks to be blunt. Why they screwing the BoS? They were like the powerhouses in FO1 and 2 now... they are the red headed step child the writers seem to want to kick around. Sad when the DC BoS is really in a much better position then the west coast chapters. What I read ingame I get the impression ALL the BoS on the west coast are more or less in the same boat as the vegas branch. Are they trying to kill them off canon wise I wonder?

It seems that they're moving more towards a stance where they might be the best technologically and trained, but they're just out manned by anything they go up against and they've stagnated due to their membership not being added to from the outside. Honestly at this point I'd see the Followers of the Apocolypse overtaking and absorbing the BoS to a degree simply because the Followers are ideologically similar (don't let the bad tech get into the hands of evil people) but more flexible and have a larger membership and an easy way to maintain that membership (rather than just having women constantly pop out babies to keep the roster strong).

 

Maybe it turns out kinda like the the Sisters of Battle from Warhammer 40k. The BoS is based entirely around military and warfare while the Followers are mainly about helping but both operate under the same leadership.

 

I could see that and I think Vic has the right idea. I could see her way of thinking slowing taking over as time goes on and perhaps some forward thinking elder approaching the FotA on some kind of merger. For such a well read, educated and advanced society I am perplexed they don't see the writing on the wall. Seems every Elder turns a blind eye to the reality of their situation. Except the DC elder who if I recall correctly got 'ex-communicated' in effect from the BoS for his actions. What I never understood about the DC situation is if the leadership back in cali was so upset by the elder in DC why not just send a new elder to replace him. Pretty clear they could have removed him for violations of there rules.

 

That said I actually DID find a BoS patrol in my new game. However they seemed to just be patrolling the fence line of hidden valley.. but at least there are patrols out there if you replace the elder...

[Tigranes]

The DC situation doesn't make sense on multiple levels, but that's a different story. Bethesda wanted a more robust and kickass BOS and they got it, for better or for worse.

 

You get those patrols even if you stick with McNamara, if you persuade him to lift the lockdown.

[HoonDing]

What I never understood about the DC situation is if the leadership back in cali was so upset by the elder in DC why not just send a new elder to replace him. Pretty clear they could have removed him for violations of there rules.

Was there still communication between East and West Coast? Maybe the Western chapter simply didn't know about it. At the very least, it must take months for news to travel between East and West without vertibirds.

Edited December 7, 2010 by virumor

[Tale]

Yes, there was some communication. They didn't replace him because they decided it wasn't worth it. I don't think the Brotherhood was exactly prepared for civil war.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I can see the loading time issue, but a pleasant surprise is how quickly stuff loads even installed on my 5400rpm spindle drive. (Too lazy to split Steam directory) No idea about console load times though - do they play nice with aftermarket SSD installations?

I don't think there's even an install option on the 360, it has to load from DVD, which is why it's so painful. Not that I have room on the tiny HD it came with anyway.

[Bendu]

Of course there is an install option on the 360.

[TheHarlequin]

Yes, there was some communication. They didn't replace him because they decided it wasn't worth it. I don't think the Brotherhood was exactly prepared for civil war.

 

I don't see how a civil war would have been created by default. Send a new elder escorted by a dozen loyal paladins. 'sorry to inform you the bos leadership has decided because of your infractions against the codex you are being relieved'. Either the DC elder would have to abide by the rule of law (which I get the impression he prob would if push came to shove) or as you state start a fight with the west coast bos. I don't think he would risk killing any more bos members to start a civil war. In the end he was trying to save the BoS not annex his faction and just doing what he thought was best being so far away from the main group. I didn't get the impression he has a chip on his shoulder and a axe to grind against the main faction on the west coast.

[TheHarlequin]

The DC situation doesn't make sense on multiple levels, but that's a different story. Bethesda wanted a more robust and kickass BOS and they got it, for better or for worse.

 

You get those patrols even if you stick with McNamara, if you persuade him to lift the lockdown.

 

I don't see how it didn't make sense. the DC bos so far away from the main group they need to be more liberal with their recruiting to survive as they can't easily get new bodies so far away. So he takes the best tribals he can find, educates them, and trains them in warfare. violates the codex but when survival comes into play sometimes you need to toss the rule book out the window. I can easily see why the elder made the choices he made.