Monte Carlo Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 My biggest gripe with Bioware and their Romances is that they feel tacky, I think is the word for it. They should be illegal, when I am Generalissimo it shall be one of my first decrees, we will send an Emissary to the Canadian government to ask them to do something about it lest we resort to armed conflict.
Azdeus Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) exactly! god, it pisses me off If it only was so easy in real life. xP That they also made it, well - maybe not mandatory - but highly recommended to have an LI in the end of the game did'nt make it any better. They should be illegal, when I am Generalissimo it shall be one of my first decrees, we will send an Emissary to the Canadian government to ask them to do something about it lest we resort to armed conflict. Yes, herr commendante! I am with YOU! All the WAY! *Salutes* Q: How is sex going to be handled in Dragon Age 2, and how do you react to the intense scrutiny and interest that accompanies the sex in Dragon Age and Mass Effect? I mean, I have a friend who was absolutely obsessed with trying to nail one of his party members. What do you think of that? GZ: Will there be romance opportunities? Of course! It's not just your friend, it's a large part of the experience. It's really funny, because when we first did it in Baldur's Gate, the same concept, we asked fans and did focus tests they all said, "Oh no, we don't really care about that, we're not really interested." Yet when they play, they do the exact opposite. They obsess over it, spending all this time and effort, and in Dragon Age you had the gifts. It was involved, right? I think it's something that's actually an important part of the game. It's part of the whole concept of having relationships. I think it's a good thing. They key thing for us is that it's mature content for an appropriate age group. But I think it's a big part of the game. Link I might be reading too much into this, but.. how can they see wooing someone with gifts as being mature and involved? I mean, there is no real effort that goes into it. And more curiously, why does'nt people go into flames over the fact that it actually pictures people as shallow and greedy? The last time I checked, pouring gifts over a girl and then expect a relationship or quick tussle in the bed to come out of it was prostitution and would most likely end with a slap in the face? Edited July 28, 2010 by Azdeus Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Nepenthe Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 I might be reading too much into this, but.. how can they see wooing someone with gifts as being mature and involved? I mean, there is no real effort that goes into it. And more curiously, why does'nt people go into flames over the fact that it actually pictures people as shallow and greedy? The last time I checked, pouring gifts over a girl and then expect a relationship or quick tussle in the bed to come out of it was prostitution and would most likely end with a slap in the face? The girls you know are obviously a lot less mercenary than the ones I know. Must be law school? You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Azdeus Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 No, know one in lawschool that pretty much despised it when she got gifts from her boyfriend that was hoping for some nookie. Real-estate law if that helps? Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
sorophx Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 I think Obsidian usually writes romances better than Bio. not that I cared about those while playing NWN2 or KOTOR2, but it was more subtle. Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
WorstUsernameEver Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 I think Obsidian usually writes romances better than Bio. not that I cared about those while playing NWN2 or KOTOR2, but it was more subtle. So subtle in NWN2 that you had a sudden 'want to make love with me?' and then that was it. Not to mention Mask of the Betrayer pretty awkward 'flirt ONCE in the whole game and that was all the sign of her feelings you get before the grand finale where she declares herself' with Safiya. I do think that romances were done reasonably decently in Alpha Protocol though, but it's not like Obsidian is a master either.
Starwars Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) I don't think they were particularly successful in NWN2 or KOTOR2 either. I enjoyed them a lot in Alpha Protocol but it's so different in tone, it's hard to see them as romances. More like romantic encounters. That said, I quite liked the romance with Morrigan. Partially I think because even though she got emotionally attached to your character, she didn't really change that much and you couldn't dissuade her from doing what she wanted to do near the ending. I think they hit a pretty good spot with her showcasing some feelings but still not giving up on her own dreams (twisted as they may be). EDIT: I didn't like the romances much in MotB either but one thing I *adored* is that the Safiya romance turned out so wonderfully weird in that... well, maybe she is partly in love with Akachi? That link made it so... morbid in some ways. I have no idea if it was intended or not but even so I loved that. Edited July 28, 2010 by Starwars Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0
aries101 Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 As for the player statistics, 40% af all video game players are now girls/women, while the average age for a player now is 35. It is time the PR-departments of say EA and Bioware stop catering to teenage adolescent boys who like blood, gore and explosions. As for the first Dragon Age: Origins, I didn't understand why it did get an 18+ rating from PEGI, untill I entered The Lost in Dreams sidequest. Then, finally, I understood. (I still maintain, though, that is should DA:O should only have gotten a 16+ PEGI rating). As for Dragon Age, I really like the whole set-up with the unreliabe story-teller (narrator) and I can't wait to see how they narrate both the male and femaleHawke's tale... Please support http://www.maternityworldwide.org/ - and save a mother giving birth to a child. Please support, Andrew Bub, the gamerdad - at http://gamingwithchildren.com/
Monte Carlo Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 No disrespect to the ladies, but occasionally men and women want different things from popular culture. There's stuff guys like and stuff women like, it's perfectly OK. The Sims is a chick's game. Company of Heroes isn't. It's the difference between catching My Best Friend's Wedding versus Ronin on the TV. But there's a tipping point. As an older, male gamer I have no interest in romances in CRPGs. Whatsoever. I find them puerile, embarrassing and tacky. As long as they are completely optional and are a marginal part of the game then I can deal with it. The tipping point as far as Bioware is concerned has now moved too far for me personally, I am now way out of what they perceive their audience base to be and the squeakiest wheels are getting the most oil. The Bio forums are just excruciating, emo-obsessed people wanting to cyber with anything and explore stuff that really belongs in another genre completely. I won't be buying this game, will be playing something with tanks in it, or maybe a sand-box RPG. Cheers MC
Azdeus Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 No disrespect to the ladies, but occasionally men and women want different things from popular culture. There's stuff guys like and stuff women like, it's perfectly OK. The Sims is a chick's game. Company of Heroes isn't. It's the difference between catching My Best Friend's Wedding versus Ronin on the TV. But there's a tipping point. As an older, male gamer I have no interest in romances in CRPGs. Whatsoever. I find them puerile, embarrassing and tacky. As long as they are completely optional and are a marginal part of the game then I can deal with it. The tipping point as far as Bioware is concerned has now moved too far for me personally, I am now way out of what they perceive their audience base to be and the squeakiest wheels are getting the most oil. The Bio forums are just excruciating, emo-obsessed people wanting to cyber with anything and explore stuff that really belongs in another genre completely. I won't be buying this game, will be playing something with tanks in it, or maybe a sand-box RPG. Cheers MC Mmm... tanks. They're lovely. But you do know there are tanks in Dragon Age right? Not mechanical ones, but soldiers with Swords and boards. *Grins* On a serious note though, I completely agree with the middle part. Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Thorton_AP Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Meh, as an older gamer myself they never really bother me. /shrug
Wrath of Dagon Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 As for the player statistics, 40% af all video game players are now girls/women, while the average age for a player now is 35. That includes minesweeper and solitaire. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
entrerix Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 romances can be ignored in most games, hardly a reason to pass a game by for me Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Volourn Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 To me, for the most part, romances in BIO games, just add to the role-playing, C&C, quests, and interetsing characters. Just the fasct people will argue which romance is better is enough to show that romances are a solid part of games. There have been good romances and bad romances. *shrug* DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Monte Carlo Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 romances can be ignored in most games, hardly a reason to pass a game by for me There are three reasons I'm avoiding this one (1) the pre-defined character (2) the romances and (3) I liked Dragon Age. I wanted Dragon Age 2 to be like Dragon Age but better. This is completely different, it just leaves me cold. Although I will admit, as I previously posted, to being very interested in where Bio is taking this. That doesn't mean I particularly feel the need to play it.
Azdeus Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 romances can be ignored in most games, hardly a reason to pass a game by for me It's not exactly as you really can really ignore it in DAO, since you basically die if you don't iirc. Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
WorstUsernameEver Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 romances can be ignored in most games, hardly a reason to pass a game by for me It's not exactly as you really can really ignore it in DAO, since you basically die if you don't iirc. Not exactly. There are other ways to survive.
Thorton_AP Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Never mind that it's metagaming if you make your choice based upon what you know happens later.
Azdeus Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) Not exactly. There are other ways to survive. Hence, "basically". Though it might be me missunderstanding the meaning of the word. If you don't commit to "the dark ritual", someone always dies, don't they? Never mind that it's metagaming if you make your choice based upon what you know happens later. Wich is beside the point, now is'nt it? Edited July 28, 2010 by Azdeus Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Volourn Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 "It's not exactly as you really can really ignore it in DAO, since you basically die if you don't iirc." EXcept, you don't need to take part in the romance to do the ritual. Romances in DA (like all BIO games) are 100% optional. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Monte Carlo Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 :: sigh :: they are optional, our argument is that the time and resources that go into them could be better used doing something less made of epic fail.
WorstUsernameEver Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 :: sigh :: they are optional, our argument is that the time and resources that go into them could be better used doing something less made of epic fail. Again, I honestly doubt a lot of resources are spent on romances. And the fact that even Obsidian, that doesn't seem to like them that much, worked them into practically all of their games, indicates that actually there is a segment of the market that indeed cares about them.
Monte Carlo Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Again, I honestly doubt a lot of resources are spent on romances. What? V.O. alone costs an arm and a leg, DA:O for example has three or four of the replete with muzak for the utterly unerotic sex scenes, lots of talking / flirting, art assets for gifts to buy NPC affections, and so on. All of that could have instead been deployed into a Really Big Sword or a 10 x 10 room with an orc in it. And a pie. Cheers MC
WorstUsernameEver Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Again, I honestly doubt a lot of resources are spent on romances. What? V.O. alone costs an arm and a leg, DA:O for example has three or four of the replete with muzak for the utterly unerotic sex scenes, lots of talking / flirting, art assets for gifts to buy NPC affections, and so on. All of that could have instead been deployed into a Really Big Sword or a 10 x 10 room with an orc in it. And a pie. Cheers MC The gifts weren't necessarily tied to romance, but more generally to the influence system. Honestly, I doubt that cutting the romances would give a lot of resources for something else. And honestly, there were enough rooms full of enemies in Dragon Age : Origins. I'd gladly cut the numbers if it meant having designer think about how to make various encounters fun to play.
HoonDing Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Look at the bright side, if DA:O didn't have romances included, perhaps there would have been more Deep Roads or Temple-of-the-Urn. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
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