Dragon Age: Tactics

[cronicler]

A correction; in the fade you can find 4 st, 4 dex, 4 will, 2 mg, 5 cun, & 2 con

 

Except for finding an odd pice here and there there arent really many good light armor in the game. (For example I liked the dalish leather set but it gave exra armor for full set . I wish it had -Fatigue as set bonus.) Most of the game my rogue was either wearing a rough leather set for maximum "-stamina" effect. Later I swapped the pieces with "+dodge" gear (and trinkets) and used a robe (witch robe or chasinid robe had the best bonuses for my rogue that I could find I think) to keep the stamina penalty down. at dwarf city, elven camp and after the landsmeet you can find some decent leather (chest) armor.

 

For Leilana (or your own archer builds) be on the lookout for the +critical, +ranged critical, +dex, +critical damage gear (in that order of importance). You can buy 2 or 3 pieces from the dwarves at the camp (belt, bracers) dalish and dwarfs also have some more of those gear. Your archer will have to rely on her stratospheric dex to dodge (You did get her dex to the 40+ range "at least" I hope?)

[Pidesco]

I've been finding that momentum turns a dual wielder into a murderous death dealer. Really, it automatically turns almost all 2W talents into a useless waste of a quickslot. A bit unbalanced, to say the least.

 

Seriously, except for Shale, all melee fighters become useless because of it.

[Aristes]

Here's my problem with the game so far. If I don't issue orders and then go back immediately to my main, she'll start casting cones of cold on my own damned party. It's so bad that I didn't even get cone of cold for Morrigan. Wynne is simply a healer with some low level damage spells so far, which I like. Even doing my best to micromanage my party, I find that my people get hopelessly entangled with the enemy, which is okay because I can usually find spots to cast cones of cold and fireball. Even the nerfed Blizzard and Inferno (or whatever the firestorm spell is called) worked for me really well during that battle last night.

 

My mage is primarily a primal mage with full healing and my arcane is bumped. Now, that might be the wrong build, but it seems to have worked well enough.

 

I've been investing Alistair in durability. Total sword and shield. I don't have another tank option other than the dog, but the dog is already at 100 influence so I'm taking Alistair around.

 

I switch out Morrigan and Leliana. Morrigan if I want someone effective. Leliana if I want locks picked.

 

Wynne is there for the healing, and her mad healing skilz have been the turning point in a couple of battles so far.

 

So, I guess the question is, for you hardcore tactical types, is there any better way to take care of my mage AoE problem? Micromanaging two people with AoE would drive me crazy.

[Monte Carlo]

So, I guess the question is, for you hardcore tactical types, is there any better way to take care of my mage AoE problem? Micromanaging two people with AoE would drive me crazy.

 

You should be able to manage this using the tactics slots, but because I tend to manage mage AoE spells personally I'm not sure how you manage the friendly fire issue. Hold on... (boots up DA to look at tactics slots...)

 

Right, the simple answer appears to be the range variable - setting it to medium / long range for AoE spells should do the trick, depending on what you want the trigger for (i.e. large groups or spellcasters). Just remember that when combat kicks off that the character's tactics will be doing that and move the rest of the team accordingly. I have Morrigan configured to auto fireball all enemy groups larger than 3 at medium / long range and I don't have a big problem but I do have to remember to keep my melee fighters back when I see a mob.

 

I can see why the frost cone spell might be a problem - personally for that part of the battle I'd pause and control the caster - melee characters are much easier to configure in the tactics slots.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Monte Carlo

[HoonDing]

Turn-based combat, or at least the ability to pause every turn (if there even are turns) would make the combat much less chaotic & more palatable. This is what made Drakensang combat so fun & tactical.

 

The reason why I'll probably never play a non-archer rogue, is that having to micromanage said rogue + a mage, would be a nightmare with having to pause every two seconds... similar to NWN 2 with Qara in the party.

Edited December 8, 2009 by virumor

[Gromnir]

"So, I guess the question is, for you hardcore tactical types, is there any better way to take care of my mage AoE problem? Micromanaging two people with AoE would drive me crazy."

 

vol response:

 

ROOFLES! that is a riDkulous complaint. if you don't wont to mikroManage, then you should go back to playing BG2 because you want a super eZ game, and you obviously aren't using the combat tactics right, so it isn't bioware's fvault. And MASS PaRALYSIS kills everything instantly, so you have no reason to complain. ROOFLES. Next time you should do redcliffe first because it is so easy, and you don't need potions but the SPOILERS and SPoilers are hard. Kone of cold is a joke but all the other spells are GR8t. and 70 backpack slots is two much room.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 8, 2009 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

If I don't issue orders and then go back immediately to my main, she'll start casting cones of cold on my own damned party.

Ian would've been so proud...

 

I've had my own mage protagonist run up to the rest of the party (engaged in melee combat) and freeze all 3 team member while the enemy went unscathed. Made me think "Ian with a SMG"

[Pidesco]

So, I guess the question is, for you hardcore tactical types, is there any better way to take care of my mage AoE problem? Micromanaging two people with AoE would drive me crazy.

 

Where are all the people who used to play infinity engine games? They seem to have been replaced by those who want games to play themselves.

[Aristes]

So, I guess the question is, for you hardcore tactical types, is there any better way to take care of my mage AoE problem? Micromanaging two people with AoE would drive me crazy.

 

Where are all the people who used to play infinity engine games? They seem to have been replaced by those who want games to play themselves.

I started to laugh and then I realized you're serious. I've played all of the IE games at least once. Actually, probably at least twice for each and some of them several times. I also started my DA on hard and have not reduced difficulty the entire time. I didn't realize this was an manhood contest.

 

The AI has casters do stupid things. Just the way it is. ...And since you have to unpause somewhere along the line, you're going to end up with bad mage decisions from the AI if you have more than one mage.

 

Ugh, you know, I thought this was a place to discuss stuff. Sorry to have intruded. I'll just head back to the other DA thread. Forget I asked anything.

[Gromnir]

to be fair, Gromnir cannot think of a way for the ai to handle cone of cold. we position morrigan, pause, and then shift the area of effect for CoC to within a micrometer to get the most impact. is simply not a spell we is ever gonna have in the combat tactics menu.

 

we also got tired of shale dismantling our own party because it hurled rocks on Gromnir, or because the ai didn't recognize that such hurled rocks could be obstructed doing damage somewhat closer than intended.

 

area effect spells never show up on Gromnir's combat tactics menu, but we don't mind the micromanagement. the best crpg ai is stoopid, because it almost always views players as individuals rather than as a group. can have aoe spells only cast at X distance from caster and that still don't take into account that fellow party members may be in the Kill Zone... or such casting may create a Kill Zone where you not want one to be.

 

called "plays" that would combine behaviors for multiple party members would be ideal, but developers never seem to embrace such an approach.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

Grrrr. People keep complaining about how Sten is useless and always drops dead in a fight - well Shale is that for me. The fact that he can't equip real equipment really really hurts him, especially in nightmare. Compared to a DW (not sword/shield!) Alistair at level 15 he has less armour, less dodge, similar attack, more damage, a lot less resistances. The fact that Alistair can get +70% phys and +50% mag res and Shale can hardly get any means that Shale is becoming useless as a damage absorber as I get into late-game combat. I'm about to go the Deep Roads and have taken him out for Sten, and I can already tell the difference.

 

Also, I've given up micromanaging all party members in DA, there's no action queue and sometimes when you issue orders at the beginning of combat they don't listen to you, because they still have to do their animation for unsheathing their swords and looking menacing. *facepalm*

[Enoch]

As a strident micro-manager,* here's a feature I want: An option to enable an automatic toggle into the "Hold Position" mode at the beginning of combat, that goes back into "Free Movement" when the fight is over.

 

On numerous occasions, I've set up actions I want my people to do at the beginning of combat (e.g., Wynne cast Petrify), then jumped to another character to move it around with the WASD keys (e.g., to set up a flanking Cone of Cold with my PC), only to find that first character ignoring my previous order and instead following the character I'm directing, because I forgot to toggle Hold Position on at the start of the fight. This is irritating.

 

 

* The only spells that auto-cast are Heal (on very low health, just in case I'm not paying attention) and Arcane Bolt. And that's with a 2-mage party.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Enoch

[Pidesco]

So, I guess the question is, for you hardcore tactical types, is there any better way to take care of my mage AoE problem? Micromanaging two people with AoE would drive me crazy.

 

Where are all the people who used to play infinity engine games? They seem to have been replaced by those who want games to play themselves.

I started to laugh and then I realized you're serious. I've played all of the IE games at least once. Actually, probably at least twice for each and some of them several times. I also started my DA on hard and have not reduced difficulty the entire time. I didn't realize this was an manhood contest.

 

The AI has casters do stupid things. Just the way it is. ...And since you have to unpause somewhere along the line, you're going to end up with bad mage decisions from the AI if you have more than one mage.

 

Ugh, you know, I thought this was a place to discuss stuff. Sorry to have intruded. I'll just head back to the other DA thread. Forget I asked anything.

 

 

Don't leave!

 

Anyway, the point isn't one of manhood, but rather that something seems to have changed between the time when you played Infinity games, and now with DA. What's the difference between micromanaging two warriors and two mages in DA and micromanaging a 6 person party in BG2, for example? If anything, in DA things are much simpler to take care of than in BG2.

 

Stay and discuss! I still love you! In a manly way, obviously.

[Aristes]

OH, no, I was playing a diva. You know, drama-queen style. This is what these new fangled romances in games have done to me!

 

Anyhow, I'm with Enoch. It's not that I mind micromanaging. It's that I hate the fact that my people manage to do their own thing even when I'm trying to micromanage. It makes spells like inferno and blizzard far less useful when your melee folks act like rabid dogs pulling at the leash.

[Volourn]

"Where are all the people who used to play infinity engine games? They seem to have been replaced by those who want games to play themselves."

 

Actually, the infiity games are the ones where the game is more likely to play itself since warriors and rogues are basically attack-attack-attack so you don't even have to watch them at all.

 

While in DA, your warrior types have specialty moves that need to be sued and while DA has some of the best AI (definitely better than the IE) ever in a CRPG, it will not be able to intelligently use everything. Check, the disucssion about cone of cold.

 

For me, in DA, I set up my meleers to do variosu special attacks and concentrae on my mages. I'll switch to the meleers to get them into better position/to attack certain enemies. And, if I think I need them to do a special move then I'll switch to them as well.

 

In BG2, in most combats, I simply mass clicked my party INCLUDING MAGES to mass attack all the wussy non threatening enemies in melee. L0LZ

 

In DA, you need to cleverly use your talents while in BG2, for at leats half the battles you can simply watch your party zerg rush. This is even true for BG2 'toughg' enemies like golems where you just mass click and attack them until they fall while you watch the game.

 

 

"They seem to have been replaced by those who want games to play themselves"

 

Most noteably, these are the players who prefer infinity combat to DA combat because that's more common there than in DA even with the tatics mode. *shrug*

[Spider]

Grrrr. People keep complaining about how Sten is useless and always drops dead in a fight - well Shale is that for me. The fact that he can't equip real equipment really really hurts him, especially in nightmare. Compared to a DW (not sword/shield!) Alistair at level 15 he has less armour, less dodge, similar attack, more damage, a lot less resistances. The fact that Alistair can get +70% phys and +50% mag res and Shale can hardly get any means that Shale is becoming useless as a damage absorber as I get into late-game combat. I'm about to go the Deep Roads and have taken him out for Sten, and I can already tell the difference.

 

Funny that. When I had Shale in my party, she had a much higher survival rate than Alistair. Alistair went down a lot faster in comparison. So in my mind, Shale is by far the better tank. If you're using Shale in any other mode than Heart of Stone though, I suppose she could be a lot more vulnerable.

[Tigranes]

Keep in mind this is a dual-wielding respec'd Alistair, not sword & shield, which means a lot of focus on dexterity, and also this is Nightmare, which changes things unless you are on the same difficulty. I did use Stoneheart mode.

 

I think the big thing was resistances; in Hard Shale was alright, but in Nightmare he couldn't deal with the damage without the high resistance real armour provides.

[Spider]

Anyway, I finished the game last night and am contemplating a second playthrough. Since I played a rogue last time, I am playing either a warrior or a rogue. I am contemplating building an archer warrior that will go around with Leiliana, Morrigan (that will go spirit healer so she can fill both crowd control and support) and Alistair. I hate two-handed weapons and think the tank is boring to play, so it should be interesting, and two archers should be able to dish out a lot of damage.

 

Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen if archers can do backstab attacks? It's been aksed before, but afaik never answered.

[Spider]

Keep in mind this is a dual-wielding respec'd Alistair, not sword & shield, which means a lot of focus on dexterity, and also this is Nightmare, which changes things unless you are on the same difficulty. I did use Stoneheart mode.

 

I think the big thing was resistances; in Hard Shale was alright, but in Nightmare he couldn't deal with the damage without the high resistance real armour provides.

 

I was playing on Nightmare. I had Shale with two nature crystals which gave decent resitances. Maybe Alistair could have been better if I had invested more in his gear, but Shale was such an excellent tank that it was never needed. having two area stuns also helped a lot for my party.

[HoonDing]

I also finished a second playthrough but for now am going back to NWN 2. At least in that game 90% of battles don't boil down to "cast sleep, cast cone of cold, shatter enemies, rinse & repeat".

 

The only challenge the game provides is either ambushes where the party is positioned in the worst way possible and/or being outnumbered 5 to 1 at least, but even those can be beaten fairly easily with said spells... not to mention health/lyrium potions are easy to come by in large doses.

[Oner]

I accept suggestions for party members for a human hating* city elf rogue. Zevran is/will be one.

 

*Save her life and she'll hate you a bit less.

[HoonDing]

I accept suggestions for party members for a human hating* city elf rogue. Zevran is/will be one.

 

*Save her life and she'll hate you a bit less.

Morrigan & Shale.

[Oner]

I accept suggestions for party members for a human hating* city elf rogue. Zevran is/will be one.

 

*Save her life and she'll hate you a bit less.

Morrigan & Shale.

Ah Shale, yeees. Thank you.

[Monte Carlo]

I also finished a second playthrough but for now am going back to NWN 2. At least in that game 90% of battles don't boil down to "cast sleep, cast cone of cold, shatter enemies, rinse & repeat".

 

The only challenge the game provides is either ambushes where the party is positioned in the worst way possible and/or being outnumbered 5 to 1 at least, but even those can be beaten fairly easily with said spells... not to mention health/lyrium potions are easy to come by in large doses.

 

In which case, if you want a proper challenge, play as a Rogue (archer) with a party of Wynne (no respeccing, just follow the heal / buff route - imagine she's a D&D cleric), Alistair and one of the other rogues (I'd suggest Zevran configured for the all out Tier 4 Stealth, DW god).

 

It will play as a very different, more tactical game. Mage PCs own this game, so take them out of the equation.

 

EDIT: Configure your archer as stealing / lock guy to maximise your income and concentrate of the AK47 critical hit archery route, pump DEX to the 40's. Configure Zevran as a high CUNNING melee rogue, by mid teen levels he'll easily have 100% defence with the right kit, let him also be trap / poison guy.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Monte Carlo

[HoonDing]

^Yeh, I've already made a Dalish Elf archer-rogue in fact. Problem is it seems the game was designed with crowd control in mind, considering the numbers it constantly throws at you, and without an offensive mage it just seems one is handicapping oneself just to spice things up.

 

I wish the game had battles against rival groups of adventurers. Like in BG2, where you could wipe out Drizzt & his party. Even NWN 2 had one such encounter.

 

Only thing that comes close in DA is the encounter with the Hurlock Omega & that charlatan scroll merchant.