Aristes Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I think there's a lot the design team can do with any setting. High fantasy or low fantasy or modern or whatever, the design team can differentiate their game.
entrerix Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 has there ever been a really great low-fantasy game? i'm curious, heck I might have even played one but now cannot remember Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Hurlshort Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Mount & Blade is low fantasy, no magic whatsoever.
Pop Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Magical portals, epic heroes, dragons around every corner, quasi-medieval memes of chivalry and monarchy, hot elf chicks, Elminster in a pointy hat, exotic locales loosely based on R/W historical cultures, enchanted swords, evil gods, dungeons under every hill, barn and tree? That's a pretty standard definition of high fantasy. I don't know. It seems like Dragonlance had its main conflicts on a pretty large scale, with dragon armies and ****. FR always seemed to focus around the adventurer's group. Plus whenever I think of High Fantasy I don't think of Elminster (pretty much a carbon copy of Gandalf except he doesn't adventure) but of the Black Knight (for all intents and purposes, a Sauron-type conquering villain) and castles and princesses and ****, which are all pretty much Dragonlance. FR was always a bit weirder than that, largely because of how ridiculously prevalent magic was, and because of how the malevolent powers of the world tended to be subversive and hatch plots instead of launch armies. It's too loopy to be high-fantasy, and it's a bit more interesting than the more traditional fantasy tropes. I'll take, say, the Zhents or the Red Wizards over the Orc Hordes (or the Blightspawn, for that matter) any day. It looks like in Dragon Age you'll actually be raising an army from the races of the land ala LOTR. Which is fun enough, I guess (there was an element of that towards the end of NWN2) but it's not really interesting as a hook. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Mount & Blade is low fantasy, no magic whatsoever. Well then it's not very "fantasy" is it? "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
Deadly_Nightshade Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Mount & Blade is low fantasy, no magic whatsoever. Well then it's not very "fantasy" is it? That depends on what you consider "fantasy." "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Aristes Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) I think a historical setting in... well... really any time period could be cool and needn't have any magic or have magic that is in no way related to the gameplay. However, a game without any fantasy elements probably wouldn't count as fantasy. That's a fertile ground for discussion also. Edited September 3, 2009 by Aristes
213374U Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 magic that is in no way related to the gameplay.What? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Purkake Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 M&B is more like a "Medieval stuff" simulator.
entrerix Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 ok, well, whether or not mount and blade counts, can anyone think of any OTHER really great low-fantasy games? and the greatness of mount and blade is questionable. i havent played it though so i will not judge! Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Purkake Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 ok, well, whether or not mount and blade counts, can anyone think of any OTHER really great low-fantasy games? and the greatness of mount and blade is questionable. i havent played it though so i will not judge! What doesn't TVtropes have an article for? It's not very comprehensive, but it should give everyone a nice head start on finding low-fantasy games.
entrerix Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 thanks for the link! Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
HoonDing Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) ok, well, whether or not mount and blade counts, can anyone think of any OTHER really great low-fantasy games? Betrayal at Krondor. Maybe Dark Messiah, though it takes place in Might&Magic universe which is high fantasy. Edited September 3, 2009 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Hurlshort Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Are we really just talking about low magic settings?
Aristes Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 magic that is in no way related to the gameplay.What? In the backstorty, not in items or character stats.
entrerix Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 seems to me the main diff between high and low fantasy is not so much "magic" as it is "power" high power vs low power. are the heroes slaying dragons and stopping armies? or are they stealing a chest of gold? Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Purkake Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) It's more about magic being powerful, rare and having dire consequences(low fantasy) versus it being mundane and relatively consequence-free(high fantasy). Edited September 3, 2009 by Purkake
Pop Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) I thought the term "high fantasy" predated the era of tabletop games. Fantasy fiction has been around for over a hundred years and I guess if I could distill my notion of "high fantasy" down to one single thing it would be "imitation Arthurian legend", or at least fantasy pulp in the vein of Robert E. Howard. Knights, noble quests, magic not being necessarily rare, but there being a pronounced supernatural element to the setting at least. Witches and warlocks and spirits and ghosts and such exist out there in the world. TVTropes puts D&D and Arthurian / Conan type stuff into the category of "Heroic Fantasy", but their definition of High Fantasy seems to jibe with mine. The difference seems to be in the focus on the scope of the story. Still, the whole "grand conflict between the forces of good and evil" is what seals it for me. The thing with the Forgotten Realms seems to be that there are a lot of grand conflicts (so many, often several at a time, that it becomes ridiculous) but no THE grand conflict, outside of, I don't know, the Time of Troubles maybe? Edited September 3, 2009 by Pop Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
entrerix Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 It's more about magic being powerful, rare and having dire consequences(low fantasy) versus it being mundane and relatively consequence-free(high fantasy). but you are describing lotr magic? thats like the epitome of high fantasy, which is why i posted my "its not about magic" theory Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
cronicler Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) On a semi related note; you guys (and gals) are aware of the little fact that those "Urban Supernatural Romance" novels (and their more pornographic cousins) are considered fantasy too, i hope. The question of determining what is (High, Low, whatever) fantasy always makes me chuckle. Edited September 4, 2009 by cronicler IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
Monte Carlo Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Fantasy has always had legitimate sub-categories, ask anyone here who enjoys mainstream fantasy novels. Just a few categories that spring to mind are high (heroic) fantasy, low fantasy, fantasy horror (Cthulu), pulp / heroic fantasy (for me this is where Conan sits, proudly) and (straight outta the 70's and my favourite) science fantasy. By the time you've thrown in gothic fantasy (vampires 'n' stuff), steampunk and some other stuff out there in the geekosphere there's a whole lot of fantasy. I agree that fantasy doesn't necessarily involve a bloke in plate attacking a dragon with a sword. Far from it. Cheers MC
Purkake Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Fantasy horror sounds super lame, can't you just call it horror?
Guest Slinky Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Fantasy horror sounds super lame, can't you just call it horror? Does it matter what it is called? Genres are just guidelines, not some absolute rules set to stone forever. Like Star Wars, it's concidered just as much fantasy as it is sci-fi.
Monte Carlo Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 ^ It just helps people decide - it's like thrillers or spy novels. They get divided up into military thrillers, techno thrillers, espionage, political thrillers.... even if they're not a perfect fit. There's a country mile between Clancy and Le Carre and a quick sub-category helps orientate where you are.
Purkake Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Call it horror with fantasy elements and you'll get 2x the sales. Or maybe an epic adventure of discovery and horror. Edited September 4, 2009 by Purkake
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