NWN3 will be actually a MMO

[taks]

It will be interesting to see Neverwinter Nights as a 4e property, especially as Neverwinter is gone in 4e 4gotten Realms.

Would be kinda hard to 'splain that in-game.

is the sword coast gone as well? if so then there's a BGIII issue, too!

 

taks

 

edit: whatever will ramza do?!

Edited June 10, 2009 by taks

[Purkake]

It will be interesting to see Neverwinter Nights as a 4e property, especially as Neverwinter is gone in 4e 4gotten Realms.

Would be kinda hard to 'splain that in-game.

is the sword coast gone as well? if so then there's a BGIII issue, too!

 

taks

 

edit: whatever will ramza do?!

 

BGIII with 4e? Do not want!

[Gfted1]

is the sword coast gone as well? if so then there's a BGIII issue, too!

 

taks

 

edit: whatever will ramza do?!

 

 

Im not 100% sure since everything I know about 4E I leared on this forum but I seem to remember that the Sword Coast survived pretty much untouched.

[Mamoulian War]

Not every movie has to make Titanic money to be successful. Not every MMO has to sell millions to be successful. Saying Everquest 2 is a failure is just silly. They continue to release expansions, they continue to run servers, they continue to be a profitable game for SOE. This is all an indication of a successful business plan. Same thing with City of Heroes, LotR Online, FF Online, and all the other long running MMO's.

 

It's not worth to shut down MMOG once it's released unless operating costs or reputation damage is too high. This means that even if project was way over-budget, full of bugs and players fleeing by the masses, it's still usually worth to keep game running. That's what happend to EQ2, EVE, CoH and many more games.

 

That makes no sense. Do you have any evidence to support your claims? My evidence is the fact that the games are still operating, I don't know a lot of companies that maintain a product unless it is making them money.

 

Really, you just seem to be making stuff up to justify your dislike for MMO's. It's ok to dislike a successful genre. I don't enjoy most FPS games, but I'm not going to make up claims about their success.

 

 

In some cases in bussiness ending the production might make bigger loss for the company than to continue with it... I am not saying that this is a case for any MMO, but in another type of business this is happening a sometimes... Continuing running the production = enough money to pay off debts, or break even with maintenace and salaries... Ending the production = spending a lot of money for stopping or changing the production with no income at all...

Edited June 10, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[Darth InSidious]

edit: whatever will ramza do?!

You get one lucky guess...

[Maria Caliban]

It will be interesting to see Neverwinter Nights as a 4e property, especially as Neverwinter is gone in 4e 4gotten Realms.

Would be kinda hard to 'splain that in-game.

is the sword coast gone as well? if so then there's a BGIII issue, too!

 

taks

 

edit: whatever will ramza do?!

 

Baldur's Gate is now the largest and most prosperous city on the Sword Coast.

 

Of course, BG II had nothing to do with that city and it did well, so I

[Syraxis]

First KoTOR now NWN? ****ing publishers...

 

Atari, we're through. Please die quietly.

[taks]

You get one lucky guess...

hehe, well, since the city is still there... but otherwise, i'm thinkin' ritual suicide, correct?

 

maria: yeah, but not using the city and using the name of a city/mythos that doesn't even exist are two different things. however, given that it seems BG still exists in 4e, the point is moot anyway. they have an out, ramza gets to keep his innards intact, speculation can continue... life goes on, hehe.

 

so, what did they do to neverwinter in 4e? was it destroyed, or just *poof* removed from the space-time continuum as if it never existed?

 

taks

[Pop]

Pretty sure it was destroyed, as in, it existed in the past but is no longer standing.

[Maria Caliban]

so, what did they do to neverwinter in 4e? was it destroyed, or just *poof* removed from the space-time continuum as if it never existed?

 

taks

 

To be more accurate, the city is in ruins.

[Hurlshort]

Then I imagine it'd make a great setting for a game. Go explore the ruins.

[Kaftan Barlast]

The NWN franchise died a long while ago, its only fitting that they dress the carcass up in rags and parade it round as an MMO.

[Volourn]

O RLY? Must be why another expansion ws released not thta long ago. R00fles!

[Syraxis]

so, what did they do to neverwinter in 4e? was it destroyed, or just *poof* removed from the space-time continuum as if it never existed?

 

taks

 

To be more accurate, the city is in ruins.

 

Hasn't Luskan experienced a similar fate in 4e?

[Maria Caliban]

so, what did they do to neverwinter in 4e? was it destroyed, or just *poof* removed from the space-time continuum as if it never existed?

 

taks

 

To be more accurate, the city is in ruins.

 

Hasn't Luskan experienced a similar fate in 4e?

 

Yes and no.

 

Neverwinter was Neverwinter because the river that flowed through it created a magical, permanently warm climate, but that river is now gone. It went from a sophisticated metropolitan city to ruins with lots of dead bodies and rubble.

 

Lusken was always a hive of scum and villainy, and it still is. The Arcane tower is in ruins, the three bridges have collapsed, and there

[Niten_Ryu]

Not every movie has to make Titanic money to be successful. Not every MMO has to sell millions to be successful. Saying Everquest 2 is a failure is just silly. They continue to release expansions, they continue to run servers, they continue to be a profitable game for SOE. This is all an indication of a successful business plan. Same thing with City of Heroes, LotR Online, FF Online, and all the other long running MMO's.

 

It's not worth to shut down MMOG once it's released unless operating costs or reputation damage is too high. This means that even if project was way over-budget, full of bugs and players fleeing by the masses, it's still usually worth to keep game running. That's what happend to EQ2, EVE, CoH and many more games.

 

That makes no sense. Do you have any evidence to support your claims? My evidence is the fact that the games are still operating, I don't know a lot of companies that maintain a product unless it is making them money.

 

Really, you just seem to be making stuff up to justify your dislike for MMO's. It's ok to dislike a successful genre. I don't enjoy most FPS games, but I'm not going to make up claims about their success.

 

I don't know what so difficult to understand here ?

 

Developer creates MMOG and tries to push idea for private investors and/or pulishers. They discuss long term subscriber numbers target (rather then just boxes sold and players leaving after free month). If developers are succcessful, they'll get budget near what they asked for but often they already know that they might need extra cash in later stages of the project as problems always appear. Once you've spend 3 years into project, there's SERIOUS resistance to just pull the plug and cut extra money. As rare it is, it has happend for example with EA and Ultima Online sequels (twice) and MicroSoft's Mythica. Most of the time investors and publishers will bite the bullet and find enough extra funds to get project released. Once game is released and if it fails to reach the target numbers, there's no point to just cancel it. There's still enough active subscribers who pay the monthly fee and if that total fee is higher then operating costs (servers, network, staff and support, live content team, bosses new office chair ect ect), it's worth to keep game online. You might get

[Hurlshort]

You're still not really making sense, and I fail to see where the evidence is. I could understand your point if there were actually publicized sales numbers and goals somewhere here, but without it you are just making up scenarios.

 

 

My point is an MMO is a success if it is turning a profit, and you seem to be trying to prove some complex business model without showing any actual numbers or evidence.

[Niten_Ryu]

You're still not really making sense, and I fail to see where the evidence is. I could understand your point if there were actually publicized sales numbers and goals somewhere here, but without it you are just making up scenarios.

 

 

My point is an MMO is a success if it is turning a profit, and you seem to be trying to prove some complex business model without showing any actual numbers or evidence.

 

Riiighht... so nothing but hard numbers from publishers work huh ? I've been playing and following MMOGs for over 10 years and even done some work in that field. Publishers don't like to announce active subscripter numbers unless they meet their target or break the new record. WoW and EVE publish data several times a year. Some companies, that are openly traded, must publish the data in their quaterly records. Like EA so I'll use EA and Mark Jacobs Warhammer Online as example. Mark Jacobs will be good example, as he gives nice critique how Age of Conan failed, only to fail himself.

 

From this MTV multiplayer site Mark Jacobs interview

I asked if Mythic

[Purkake]

Not to mention that publishers spend tons of money on MMOs that are cancelled before they are even announced. It's quite an investment to see a MMO through to launch.

[Hurlshort]

Don't have to beat current WoW numbers but need at least 500k active accounts to be successful (or about same as WoW had right after release).

 

This is really my whole point here. Some folks were questioning why a game would bother going up against WoW. My point is that a few hundred thousand subscribers is a viable business model. Everquest 2, FFXI, LotR Online, Eve, City of Heroes, and a few others are all managing to pull in subscribers consistently and are clearly profitable. There is no evidence that the market is at its ceiling.

 

Age of Conan shows that if you have a good product, you can pull it tremendous numbers, BUT you need to have a GOOD product. AoC had some serious flaws.

[Purkake]

Don't have to beat current WoW numbers but need at least 500k active accounts to be successful (or about same as WoW had right after release).

 

This is really my whole point here. Some folks were questioning why a game would bother going up against WoW. My point is that a few hundred thousand subscribers is a viable business model. Everquest 2, FFXI, LotR Online, Eve, City of Heroes, and a few others are all managing to pull in subscribers consistently and are clearly profitable. There is no evidence that the market is at its ceiling.

 

Age of Conan shows that if you have a good product, you can pull it tremendous numbers, BUT you need to have a GOOD product. AoC had some serious flaws.

 

Sure, but it's ridiculous that no one has managed to make a MMO that is as good as WoW and steadily gaining users.

 

A lot of people are probably rooted in WoW, but Blizzard are not doing dark magic here, they just made a good game. It's not impossible to make a better one or at least a competitive one, but for some reason everyone seems to fall short.

 

Also, a market where one product has ~75% of the userbase with the runner-up being a free game is not all that it could be. WoW is a giant with the rest of the MMOs fighting for scraps.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Purkake

[Aristes]

The only difference between a lot of what you said, N_R, and what Hurley's said in the past is the ceiling idea. Hurlshot has long maintained that it is not only difficult to create an MMO in terms of investment and technical expertise, but that it also requires a lot of dogged determination to keep it running.

 

For example, I enjoyed Warhammer, but I found it unstable. No matter how much time folks have to play, how willing they are to pay for concurrent subscriptions, or their interest in multiple settings, folks don't want to pay for a subscription for a game they simply cannot access for whole chunks of time.

 

Personally, I think the WoW phenomenon has both paved some of the way for and held back the MMO market. Sure. ...But I also understand that setting makes a difference. For example, if WoW weren't marching around with it's millions of users, then folks wouldn't make these ridiculous claims that an MMO isn't successful if it doesn't have millions of users.

 

In addition, I don't think the market is completely tapped. Someone needs to come online with an MMO with a good setting, good game mechanics, and the expertise to keep it running. WoW isn't just a phenomenal because they took advantage of the Warcraft games. Blizzard didn't just luck into the market. Blizzard has a huge world that, despite the howls any time a server is offline for a couple of hours, remains by and large extremely stable. WoW doesn't have have any real advantage over NWN or Star Wars in terms of setting. However, I am always skeptical of the new game coming up to dethrone WoW because, no matter what advantages they have, they generally have a lot of problems on the technical side. Nevertheless, I think we will see someone else come out with huge sustainable numbers eventually.

[Oner]

WoW is on the same level as cigarettes and alcohol imo. It's cool to play it, feels good to do so, lot of other people play it too, and is probably the first name to come up when you ask which MMO to play.

[Hurlshort]

I've played a lot of MMO's, and when I played the WoW open beta, I remember thinking how different it was from every MMO before it in the fact that it was stable, balanced, and pretty much ready to go. Sure, after launch they had issues with too many players and not enough servers, but overall it was a very stable launch. I haven't seen a lot of games manage that. WAR was really rough for me, I loved the game, but it crashed like crazy.

[Purkake]

I've played a lot of MMO's, and when I played the WoW open beta, I remember thinking how different it was from every MMO before it in the fact that it was stable, balanced, and pretty much ready to go. Sure, after launch they had issues with too many players and not enough servers, but overall it was a very stable launch. I haven't seen a lot of games manage that. WAR was really rough for me, I loved the game, but it crashed like crazy.

 

But Blizzard aren't that special, why hasn't anyone managed to pull it off? Is it too late now anyway?