Who was the better Sith Lord?

[JediExile]

The two Sith in KOTOR2 are scary, but fail to bring much of a challenge in game which takes away from them. Malek was far more of a challenge to beat yet was not nearly as imposing a character. Kreia isn't a Sith anymore, but is pretty powerful in her own right. Her stats for instance are crazy compared to everyone else. She is also very smart for a former Sith Lord. Kinda like Palpatine.

[anakins revenge]

kreia was better mainly cuz she struck me as having a remarkable similarity to Verger- who im a huge fan of in the EU. Sith lords also seem more the type to use strategy rather than brute force like Malak did. Malak was always bullied by Revan- remember he was the original meatbag?

He just seemed like he was trying to upstage Revans triumphs and didnt really rule like a leader should-good or bad

 

kreia was a puppeteer, she threw shadows and played with huge amounts of people. She valued teachings and knowledge rather than using brute force, and remember KREIA HELPED REVAN BUILD HIS EMPIRE, SHE HELPED HIM CORRUPT PEOPLE ON A GLACTIC SCALE. which in my opinion, w/o anyone knowing it was her, was brilliant, very old republic palpatine like

[jdei master casya mardu]

It's got to be Kreia.

 

While malak is bad, kreia was down right evil.

she manipulated the exile and everyone else she encounted quietly and effectly.

malak was strong but a ruffian. a good apprentise for revan, someone she could control, but he got above himself.

 

kreia was better because she did it quietly.

[RoadReaction]

Kriea is old, and is a false sith, simple as that. Malak would murder her.

[Topaz Quasar]

Malak would murder get his ass kicked by her.

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Fixed for proper clarity.

[RoadReaction]

Malak would murder get his ass kicked by her.

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Fixed for proper clarity.

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What kind of english are you speaking

 

Revan trusted malak more than her, thats why revan betrayed her and thats the life she is doomed to.

[darth_geezus]

looks like everybody trust in palpatine,he' s really evil and nobody really can discover about his plans...but kreia...nobody trust in her words...kreia ,,,is just...forget it, i just hate kreia

[Sophy]

Kreia was way more better than Malak in spirit and Force.

[dufflover]

Malak was a more traditional Sith lord where as Kreia wasn't a Sith or Jedi - well definitely more Sith than Jedi but not your classic Darth.

[Badsight]

the sith are bad for badness sake

 

they are Dark , the dark evil side

 

total malicious nasty evilness , kill you as soon as look at you is whattheir leaders should be

 

remeber falling to the Dark was to be feared & all dark was to be extinguished for good reason

 

Malak was a good Sith Lord , Scion too , Kreia was just out for herself . just a cunning old bag with some powers

[Swinny]

yeah, no one seems to understand that kreia wasnt really evil, yeh she was a bit mean, more sith than jedi, but no where near a darksider.

 

She was way more powerfull than malak, even in a 1 on 1 she would win either by maipulating events so malak couldnt win, or just ZAP him like she did the 3 jedi masters

 

 

but yeh, kreia was very powerful, but def not a sith lord so, malak was the better sith lord

 

also does no one actually understand that Revan never fell to the dark side...

[Lohengrin]

Kriea is old, and is a false sith, simple as that. Malak would murder her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Age and physical fitness means very little when it comes to a jedi or siths strenght. Look at Yoda, Palpatine and Tyranus in the movies. Not excactly spring chickens or olympic athletes.

 

Wich is also why I find it funny when some people argue that woman would be poor Jedi guardians because of their lack of strenght. Like its Yodas awesome 20kgs of muscles that makes him a match for Tyranus after Obi-Wan and Anakin have had their asses handed to them by the old man.

[Jedi Master Revan]

Just so you know, Darth Traya was Atris's name when she fell to the dark side.. Not Kreia's.

[masked_felix]

Alright now, regardless of which direction you look at it, (unless you are looking for the stupider of the two) Kreia is the better. Why, you ask? Let's explore Kreia and Malak and find out.

 

Kreia had that subtility that Revan had. This is an area in which Malak was lacking. Don't get me wrong Malak is a cool charater, even after his turn to the dark, but his unability to see the whole picture is a serious charater flaw. You see, Revan undersood that from small crulties, greater ones are born(sound familier?). To show you my point, Imagine a pond with several lily pads that are about 2 feet apart from each other. Now, if you touched, just touched one with the tip of your finger, the ripples in the water would spread and touch all the lily pads, moving all them from only touching a key point. Now Imagine that you took a rather large rock and hurled it at one of the lilly pads, it completly screws up the lilly pad that it hit and disrupts the pattern of the lily pads around it for some ways. That is the diference between Revan and Malak. Revan knew that by destroying key figures, he could conquer planets, and with the defeat of that planet, he could conquer systems, and with the defeat of all the systems, he could take position as ruler of the Republic . Malak, who understood battle but not war, would completly destroy a planet, causing some to cower in fear, but some more to form a rebellion. He would have to quell that rebellion, no doubt with destructive force, shattering more delicate infrastructure that he would have to completly rebuild. There would always be a rebellious group for Malak to crush, eventually leading to him killing his empire. You can't rule dead subjects, or inanimate objects for that matter, belive me, I've tried. Now, you are probobly wondering 'I thought this was about Kreia. What is this guy smoking?', well here is your anwser. Who tought Revan to touch and entire galaxy with a few deaths, and sometimes, only words. That's right, Kreia. For those of you who said Zhar, you need a serious reality check. Although Kreia wasn't as powerful as Revan, she still had manipulitave ablilities that would have a Ubese serving her tea.

Kreia, again unlike Malak, did not want the death of all Jedi opposed to her. Like she said to the exile in the Jedi Acadamy(if playing Dark Side, if you havent, do it, that is the only way you will get the full story.), (paraphrasing) 'I didn't wish the death of all Jedi, only to show them that their teachings were flawed, and that only could not totally experience the force simply by adhering to the Jedi Code.', and I'm not talking 'experience the force' like the Dark Side, but truly understand the higher mysteries of it. Because of that fact, she turned to the only other teachings she knew, those of the sith, which tought that releasing your emotions, rather than containing them would bring you power. She tried that too, and relised after her fall, that those teachings were not fufilling either. Carving out her own path, let's just call it Krieaism, she finds a way to mend the Jedi Code. The real kicker to her potency is that she understands that the force, or life in general, could not be percived in just two colors, light and dark. There is a whole spectrum to the force and the best way to solve a problem probobly won't be at the top or bottom of that spectrum. The understanding of this truth made her a formidable fow indeed. Think of her actions through out the game and then think of her revalation of motivations for the actions you get at the ending(If you wernt stupid enough to kill her before asking about Revan). Exactly, to prepare The Exile for dealing with the four immeadiate threats to the galaxy. 1 Nihilus, 2 Sion, 3 Traya (Atris and herself), 4 The Sith threat waiting beyond the outer rim. These goals show that she may not have been as evil as she appeared, but that makes her no less of a Sith Lord for it. Because, basiclly a Sith is a Jedi who uses the destrucive side of the force, and believes that the strong should rule (which is why you have to kill her). If you look at Kreia, she fits that description.

The deciseve factor between Kreia and Malak, however, is Kreia's ability to asses a decision long term. While Malak eradicates all oposition, Kreia would look into all of the possibilites that could come from that choice. For an example, when on Nar Shadaa, a man askes you to give him money, if you do it, you expect it to be the right thing to do, right? Wrong. Kreia show you that the man because of you gift, the man gets jumped and is now in more despair than before. That is the king of foresight I'm talking about. The ability to asses the effects of one's actions before making that action is vital to being a good leader, Sith or Jedi.

Malak, and his apprentice for that matter, were base sith, beliving that prowess in combat, and brute strength were the way to go, giving no thought to thought. For example, as someone stated, Darth Bandon kills a soldier for walking in front of him, probobly jacking up a console as well. Anyone that stupid deserves to be shot. Had he restrained his imbicileistic impulses, he would have one, possibly more if the console blew up (I don't remember) soldeirs in his army, which can tip the balence in a battle, and another console to issue commands from without wasteing vital resources to repair what should have never been broken. I could go on and on, but my eyes are starting to hurt from staring at this computer screen so long, so I will summarize the rest of my arguments in two words: KREIA WINS .

[Jedihuh?]

Kriea sucked, she wanted to distroy the force but became its pawn. Malak bent the force to his will. kriea may have trained Reven for a time, but he had "Many masters". Malak was just sweet, and it was a much harder fight at the end. Kriea took me 2 mins to beat including her ****ty 3 lightsabers. I think things more or less just fell into place for kreia she didn't plan on them it just kinda happened and she rolled with it.

[Lord Satasn]

It says it clearly in the game, Kreia was exiled from the Jedi, became a Sith Lord and was Exiled from them as well....

 

 

By the time she gets to you she is just a bitter, old, evil force user...who wants to destroy the force, she has been betrayed by everyone, in her mind, and so forth, betrays everyone she knows...and in hating the force she becomes what she hates, and becomes dependent on the force....in a way....

 

 

but overall she is more evil than Malak....Malak was traditional, but traditional in the sense of Crappy EU writing....

 

 

Kreia is more like the Sith Lords we know of in the movies...like Palpatine, and vader....neither were brutes, Vader was closer to a brute, but was still intelligent and caniving....

 

Kreia is basically the female version of palpatine, but with no political power....

[DeathScepter]

Darth Traya is the better of two.

[Drakonnen]

Kreia isn't true Sith. No true Sith would seek to kill/destroy the Force, the source of their own power.

 

Definetly Malak. Malak was what he was. He wasn't morally ambiguous. He wanted power, and he was prepared to go to any lengths to get it, whether through the lowly betrayal of Revan or the destruction of Taris.

 

As for the "wasted resources" someone pointed out, thats hardly something a Sith Lord would care about. Better to wipe out all their enemies and rebuild in the wake when dominance has been fully established. Hell, look at Palaptine. HE wiped out an entire peaceful planet which would have had tons of resources, no doubt, and he did it just to send a message. At least Malak had a more specific goal in mind when bombarding Taris

 

Besides, the Sith don't give a damn about their followers, traditionally. Again, look at Palpatine. The guy was the ruler of the Galaxy, with practically unlimited resources at his disposal and still wouldn't even shield his frigging TIE fighters. The strong pilots would survive, and if not, they're all expendable anyways.

 

Once again definetly Malak. He's the true Sith. Just cause he has most of the traditional Sith aspects doesn't make it a bad thing.

 

Knocking a Sith Lord as "just another guy seeking power" is like knocking a Jedi as "just another defender of the peace and the innocent," you just wouldn't do it because thats what a Jedi is SUPPOSED to be.

[zazei]

Kriea sucked, she wanted to distroy the force but became its pawn. Malak bent the force to his will. kriea may have trained Reven for a time, but he had "Many masters".  Malak was just sweet, and it was a much harder fight at the end. Kriea took me 2 mins to beat including her ****ty 3 lightsabers. I think things more or less just fell into place for kreia she didn't plan on them it just kinda happened and she rolled with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If anyone was a pawn to the dark side and the force it was Malak. First of all the only reason Malek was Sith lord in the first place is because of Revan. Malek practily begged Revan to return too the jedi (flashback in kotor1) and ended up hating/blaming her because of his fall. Do you really think a person who solved everything by blowing it up was capable enough to bent the Force to his will? Sure he had some streangh but most likely the dark side bended Malek to it's will.

 

Malek was a pawn too Revan, too the dark side, to the starforge and too about just about everything that took the time to manipulate him. Kreia would have crushed him.

 

I also very much doubt things just fell into place for Kriea, she was manupilating just about everything that mattered in kotor 2. The battle on Dantooine and Oberon meant nothing to Krea after all except preparing the exile. Sure she failed and died in the end but that was only because she loved the exile.

[Baley]

Sure she failed and died in the end but that was only because she loved the exile.

 

How did she fail? She finished the Exile's training,killed all the remaining Sith Lords and made Exile continue the search for Revan

[zazei]

Sure she failed and died in the end but that was only because she loved the exile.

 

How did she fail? She finished the Exile's training,killed all the remaining Sith Lords and made Exile continue the search for Revan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

true. :">

 

what i mean was she failed her plan to "kill" the force, than as you point out it even when failing in that she still wins. It's a win/win situation for Kreia.

[Baley]

The Exile might still kill the Force in Kotor3,but GL wouldn't aprove

[Aishur-Rim-Nisheshu]

Malak was a more traditional Sith lord where as Kreia wasn't a Sith or Jedi - well definitely more Sith than Jedi but not your classic Darth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True.

 

Malak was the SW universe arch villain archetype. Not Palaptine-cunning yet, but nevertheless a familar presence to those of us still intoxicated with the OT.

 

Kreia/Traya lacks a SW feel about her, I'll give credit to Mr. Avellone for trying to break the mold but all these plots about protagonists out to destroy something really big out of personal devotion/ambition/conviction/misguidance and needed to be stopped and reasoned with, have been done to death already.

[Darth Kavar]

Kreia though an interesting character - I really hated her during my 2nd playthru (DS). It's because the story's so made up that whenever there's a sittuation to say sth smart Kreia pops up and tells me what to do and it looks like the Exile never thought of saying something smart on his own.

And the dialogue options are crap mostly because I think they wanted Kreia to look smart and powerful -> and is there an easier way to do that then pack whole lot of dumb and weak people around her?

 

The exile can never be manipulative nor come up to outsmarting somebody because those roles are reserved to none other than Kreia.

 

Whatever happened to things like Revan's poison Yuthura and Uthar?? Oh no you can't do this in K2 because Kreia hasn't thought of it yet when she does -> she'll tell you and only then can you do it.

 

 

No offense to the whole storyline but if they wanted everything to work as Kreia planned and she gets to have all the best ideas on outsmarting eveyone then so much for replayability.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Seems to me that Malak was a poor bastard that followed his best friend (possibly even the object of his affections, his school crush, Ms. Revan?) to war and into the Dark Side, but never actually discovered the ulterior motive behind Revan's fall and just ended up wallowing in death and destruction; in a sense, he is but another victim of Revan and Kreia's machinations, rather than a power in his own right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I absolutely agree. From what we are given in K2 about Revan's actions, it seems Malak didn't know what was really going on. If Malak, who I loved by the way, was informed by Revan about what was going down with the "True Sith" Malak would not have been lost in his quest for power. Why Revan didn't trust him is something Obsidian needed to explain. K1 before K2 was Revan trying to conquer the Republic but was "killed" so Malak took over. K1 after K2 makes you wonder why Revan didn't tell Malak about the "True Sith" and screws around with what K1 was doing.

 

I have to agree with you Drakonnen. Why do people think Kreia was better than Malak when she was never DS throughout the game and when she did take up the role as Darth Traya she was barely DS, thanks to Visas force sight thingy. Sure she was manipulative and cunning but not as a Sith but as a Grey who needed to train the Exile to follow Revan or as she said "show 'them' the way".

 

I hope others realize we never knew what Kreia was like as Sith Lord until the endgame where we kill her.