Cut Ending Stuff

[Darth Credulous]

Christmas deadline most important, my foot. This should have been scheduled nearer to the release of Revenge of the Sith, when Star Wars feelings were running high.

[MacGamer]

Im sure that many people befor you have written letters to the companies about the games ending. but when it comes down to it, suck it up take it like a man. The game is how it is. I don't see them spending any time on "finnishing" this game untill the new xbox comes out. Im sure they have alot on their plate as it is. It was a great game, and yes the ending was bad, but rest assured that they have made their money and there will be a 3rd KOTOR. and in the end isn't that all that matters? the show will go on, and you will have your conclusions when the nextgen consoles come out. I am tottally satisified with the money I spent on the game, it gave me 30 hours of fun. I have no complaints, I believe the 3rd will wrap every loose ending up.  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, Obsidian & LucasArts may not come back to THIS game, if people make themselves heard, they will think twice & plan better before doing something like this again. Companies want you to hand over your money without hesitation. With the current state of affairs with KoTOR II, hesitation has been introduced into my next potential purchase. As well, I personally do NOT want to see Obsidian falling into the trap of making mediocre games.

 

Yes, they made their money, and we all were cheated. I personally feel that this game was worth about $30. to $35., not the $50. I paid for a game which is in the line of the MUCH touted "2003 Game of the Year".

 

If we don't speak up for what we feel is right, then it will become acceptable to give less and charge more. I, for one, am not going to just stand by and take this kind of attitude. Bottom line, if you want to have something great, you HAVE to be willing to stand up for it. Companies need to be held accountable for quality. We as consumers are the enforcers.

[AlanC9]

I was surprised when one of the devs said that the whole idea of a deconstructional workbench was to reduce inventory load.  Other players as well as myself have commented on the huge untouched inventory at the end of the game.  I think I used the workbench decon once just to have a few extra things before Darth Nihilus thinking he'd be quite a battle.  Hmmm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Probably a side-effect of the low difficulty. You don't really need all the stuff you can build with the workbench and a ton of parts. Also, breakdown doesn't work too well if your PC doesn't have a lot of Repair skill. The workbench uses your PC's skill, not the skill of an NPC using it. An idiotic bug IMO.

[Jedihuh?]

True, Obsidian & LucasArts may not come back to THIS game, if people make themselves heard, they will think twice & plan better before doing something like this again. Companies want you to hand over your money without hesitation. With the current state of affairs with KoTOR II, hesitation has been introduced into my next potential purchase. As well, I personally do NOT want to see Obsidian falling into the trap of making mediocre games.

 

If we don't speak up for what we feel is right, then it will become acceptable to give less and charge more. I, for one, am not going to just stand by and take this kind of attitude. Bottom line, if you want to have something great, you HAVE to be willing to stand up for it. Companies need to be held accountable for quality. We as consumers are the enforcers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you that they will now thing twice about putting out an unfinnished game, but I thought LA was known for doing half assed work on video games? Im not saying you shouldn't stand up for what you believe in. Just that this game is done with...on these consoles...I think that the whole ending being cut out might just be a big scam to help sell the next xbox, which would explain why they can't release a finnished update for the computer right now, when the new xbox comes out maybe then it will be released, Again, I am probably totally wrong, and I have thought up crazier/dumber stories befor. but its just a thought,

[Jedihuh?]

sorry if i don't make sense all the time "

[Meshugger]

It's more a sign of weak prestige to rest of the industry it Obsidian/Lucasarts release the "cut ending" as a free download. For those who have looked at the code know that there's isn't really that much work to do with ending (most of it is still there, aside from the animations, untriggered). If they really wanted to, it would take them a month to do it, bugtesting included.

 

Openly admitting that they released a half-finished product and do something about it is more difficult than saying nothing.

[213374U]

The workbench uses your PC's skill, not the skill of an NPC using it. An idiotic bug IMO.

Huh? That might be true for the workbench on board the Hawk, but the others depend on which character you activate it with.

[Objulen]

It's more a sign of weak prestige to rest of the industry it Obsidian/Lucasarts release the "cut ending" as a free download. For those who have looked at the code know that there's isn't really that much work to do with ending (most of it is still there, aside from the animations, untriggered). If they really wanted to, it would take them a month to do it, bugtesting included.

 

Openly admitting that they released a half-finished product and do something about it is more difficult than saying nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I fail to see how it would be a sign of weakness.

 

Further, I fail to see why Obsidian would worry more about the industry than the consumers. Their competitors aren't helping them to pay the bills, after all.

 

If they released the origional intended ending it would:

 

1) Restore faith among those who lost it after discovering what happened

2) Make them more popular among those who don't mind it that much

3) It's optional, so those people who don't like it don't have to use it

4) The worst that can happen is some people won't care.

 

Releasing a finished ending, or officially supporting a modding project to restore the ending, is a win-win situation all around.

[Torrentus]

Well, I personally am impressed by Obsidian. I sent an email 29 minutes ago and have a personal response. Good work guys

 

 

My email:

 

I would like to congratulate you on your success and your hard work on

the game, which I enjoyed immensely, however, I do have some concern I

would appreciate you addressed. I would also be grateful if I was

replied to in person, rather than by auto-reply, as I find these a

cheap, ineffective method of answering questions.

 

Firstly, the plot. I understood it up to Dantooine, and it was well

planned. However, thereafter it seemed to have appeared out of

nowhere.

 

-What happened between the Remote and G0-T0?

-What happened to Mira after the Hanharr scene?

-What happened to the other party members during your visit to Malachor V?

 

I understand these questions were answered to an extent with some

reading of the disk, here:

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764

 

This you may or may not be aware of, but the fact remains that several

people were disappointed with the end content. I too agree, that to an

extent, the game felt rushed and incomplete. Korriban felt like an

empty shell: merely filler for something much larger planned. The

HK-47 story and the fact he tagged along SOLELY to stop production of

the HK-50s, which he never meets and Malachor felt rushed - what

happened to the so-called IMPORTANT end scenes which are based on

influence?

 

What was greatly disappointing was the ending, which typically SHOULD

leave the audience satisfied and wanting more. Sadly, many others and

I can only relate to the latter, and for all the wrong reasons.

 

I can understand you had a difficult time schedule and you are binded

by a contract and may be unable to answer some of my queries. I

understand that you had to prioritize what to take out, but I did feel

a bit upset by the seemingly rushed endgame.

 

I would appreciate knowing what, if anything, is planned to sort out

the game's problems. A directors cut? Expansion pack? I feel that,

with the disatisfaction many gamers share, you could reap the rewards

in profits and reputation by answering to many gamers and sorting out

the ending in a way which everyone benefits from.

 

All the best.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Scott Peters

 

The response:

 

Hi Scott,

 

I understand your point about putting another version together that

answers the questions that some people have voiced on the forums and

articles about the game.  I wish I could say that we plan to do that and

that we will be able to go back and fill in the story where people felt

it fell flat.  Unforunately, we are still a new business and we just

don't have the money to do it.  Plus, I don't think that it's currently

a priority with LucasArts.  Like with most games, they are onto their

next priority and our producer at LucasArts is working 60 hours a week

on another game already.

 

What I can tell you is that we learned a lot about making games as a

smaller developer with KotOR2 and are going to use that knowledge on our

future games.  We already included our own QA team in with the budget of

NWN2 and if we get to do KotOR3 then we will do the same there.

 

For what its worth I do apoligize for the disappointment that you have

over the game,

 

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

[Objulen]

Something to ask would be if Obsidian is interesting in helping the modding community to restore the cut ending content. They could officially back such a mod and give information on what they intended the ending to be, perhaps even give some more advance development tools to help it along.

[Guard Dog]

I should clarify the context in which this was posted: he was responding to a "bash post" about kotor2 in the nwn2 forums; so it was a post on a game the forums aren't about (that's what we have this thread for ).  For those that are interested here's the link to the full thread from which I copy-pasted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi all. I am the one who posted the original message in the NWN2 forums that got Brian Lawson so defensive. Allow me to preface this next statement by saying that my main gaming interest is NWN but I do lurk here from time to time. My intention was not to make a hit post on KOTOR2, that was not the forum for it. But I wanted to get the message accross that what they did with KOTOR2, regardless of whose "fault" is was was dead wrong. And I am not just talking about the cut ending. There are a number of sequences in KOTOR2 that were predicated on a past event that was cut, or building to an event that was cut. That makes the story disjointed. Like the G0T0/remote sequnce on Malachor. Or the now undamaged Ebon Hawk flying in from... somewhere to rescue you at the end. You get the idea. As I stated in my post, if you need to make cuts, cut all of a sequence, not just the ending or beginning. If they could not close the game they way the wanted, the whole ending should have been redone, not just cut and pasted with what they had. Regardless of LA's role in what is tantamount to an act of sabatoge on this game, OE could have and should have done much better with the time they had.

 

The message I wanted to get accross was, for NWN2 we expect better from them. If they release another half finshed game, we will not support with our dollars. Don't get me wrong. I want to buy NWN2, I want it to be as good as I think they can make it. The only thing that worries me is that no one at OE will admit even obliquely that KOTOR2 is seriously flawed. If you cannot even acknowledge something is wrong, there is no reason to believe your next effort will be better.

 

For the record, I think with KOTOR2 we are like an unwanted dog abandoned in the woods. We are just starting to realize, OE and LA are not coming back for us. I think for KOTOR2 it is too late. For NWN2 it is not. That was the idea behind my post there.

[Meshugger]

It's more a sign of weak prestige to rest of the industry it Obsidian/Lucasarts release the "cut ending" as a free download. For those who have looked at the code know that there's isn't really that much work to do with ending (most of it is still there, aside from the animations, untriggered). If they really wanted to, it would take them a month to do it, bugtesting included.

 

Openly admitting that they released a half-finished product and do something about it is more difficult than saying nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I fail to see how it would be a sign of weakness.

 

Further, I fail to see why Obsidian would worry more about the industry than the consumers. Their competitors aren't helping them to pay the bills, after all.

 

If they released the origional intended ending it would:

 

1) Restore faith among those who lost it after discovering what happened

2) Make them more popular among those who don't mind it that much

3) It's optional, so those people who don't like it don't have to use it

4) The worst that can happen is some people won't care.

 

Releasing a finished ending, or officially supporting a modding project to restore the ending, is a win-win situation all around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is highly pure speculation, i think it's more in their concern about compared to other companies, not the general public. Who knows what and why (but i still blame the xbox )

[Meshugger]

understand your point about putting another version together that

answers the questions that some people have voiced on the forums and

articles about the game.  I wish I could say that we plan to do that and

that we will be able to go back and fill in the story where people felt

it fell flat.  Unforunately, we are still a new business and we just

don't have the money to do it.  Plus, I don't think that it's currently

a priority with LucasArts.  Like with most games, they are onto their

next priority and our producer at LucasArts is working 60 hours a week

on another game already.

 

What I can tell you is that we learned a lot about making games as a

smaller developer with KotOR2 and are going to use that knowledge on our

future games.  We already included our own QA team in with the budget of

NWN2 and if we get to do KotOR3 then we will do the same there.

 

For what its worth I do apoligize for the disappointment that you have

over the game,

 

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, there we have it. Let's leave it to the modders then (if they're interested).

[Darth Nuke]

Well that's it then.

 

 

Perhaps we can get an apology from Obsidian. A complete apology, unlike the game, lol. That's the least the can do

 

Hey, Adam's lerking. Maybe he can do it?

[manitsbuggy]

Im sure that many people befor you have written letters to the companies about the games ending. but when it comes down to it, suck it up take it like a man.

 

Hello, reality check. This was the follow up to KOTOR I, "RPG Game of the Year". A game based on freaking Star Wars. Sad truth is the game is broken. The game has no ending. Without the knowledge of the missing dialogue and cutscenes I was left with a wtf feeling. I dont know about your character but my character was left on a rock, a rock in space, outer space.

 

The game is rediculously easy. You could beat this game with no equipment and just force powers. A nude Sith Lord or Jedi Master with Mandalore and Anton or Bao-Dur using their fists acting as meatshields.But we all still love it. Why? The music, the story, the atmosphere. The STORY.

 

You play 50+ hours their should be a conclusion a climax and ending of sorts with some finality. There was none. It just ended abruptly without explanation.What is a story without a ending? In other words I dont know what it was all for or why I did it or anybody did anything or if it even meant anything.

 

My KOTOR II experience as a darkside character; I killed several jedi masters, I harassed a couple hundred people, I killed a couple hundred Sith, I foght on a space ship, I killed two Darth lords then I have a old (I guess dark jedi/lord) women tell me, "You are not Sith really." "The real Sith are out there, where Revan went." "No you are beautiful because you are like a black hole in the universe and you have proven me right, my death will be my last victory." I paraphrased her last words to me.

 

Then I killed her then it ends. I am on a rock in space and then credits role. WTF was that. LoL.

 

THAT WAS MY FREAKING ENDING.

 

Without these forums and the knowledge I learned here about the missing ending my darkside character was on a rock. A rock. In space. Sure after replaying a save and choosing some different dialogue I learned of the possibilites offered by Kreia but I had to reload a save and even then it was hollow. Return to exile, follow after Revan to help or kill, stay on Melanchor? What choice did my character have the first play through, nothing because it just ended and I didnt choose the correct? dialogue option.

 

Regardless who would think I would choose exile? Of course I would follow after Revan and use one of the ships she suggested. But I had to reload a previous save out of desperation and choose different dialogue options to find that possibility out. The journey was hollow. Later I come to internet and read the missing dialogue and see how it was supposed to be and it makes so much sense and is so fitting. [kind of fitting maybe I should clarify because I am not sure anybody knows, really]

 

Initially in my first play through I after killing the old women Kreia got the cut scene for showing me inside Melanchor and then spanning the galaxy. No mention of a ship, my former party members building a jedi school or Melanchor period.

 

After reading the missing dialogue you find out you were supposed to talk to Visa, Handmaiden, Anton, to some degree depending on alignment and finalize your actions and theirs. In essence bring the story to a end. The journey to a end at Melanchor where it all started when you the exile turned away from the force.

 

based on my readings of the missing dialogue Lightside uses Bao-Dur shield generator to revitalize the planet and uses it as a base of training lightjedi with Handmaiden I think. Darkside keeps it same and has Visa train darkjedi. You see the final actions of your influence on your party members. Some of the party members confront each other and Kreia. They finally commit to either light or dark. Your party members becomes your disciples training future jedi for your cause and some perhaps die. You say your farewells, make your final decision and yOu leave the planet to search out Raven.

 

However during my initial play through the only thing I had ringing in my ears when the credits rolled was Kreia telling me how she hated the force, how it didnt serve a purpose and how I had proven her right.

 

So my first initial impression of the ending to the story was me saying, "Good riddance you old witch", "Hey hello, anybody out there how am I going to get off this planet?" -->credits rolling

 

A 50+ hour story ended for me stuck on a rock with far as I knew no way off and nobody else on it. Last cutscene I saw of the Ebon Hawke it was falling into a shaft and looked to be destroyed. And there was GOTO's droid but he had no worries about me destroying the planet.. which confuses me now that I think about it because I could of sworn Bao-dur said he could use the shield generators to undo the damage to the planet. Yet I do kind of remember a dialogue option to Kreia which I didnt use which was something to the effect of potentially blowing the planet it up.

 

But what the heck does it matter trying to figure it out? Its all jumbled anyway. Its FUBAR ending. Thats the point, the ending is FUBAR there is no ending.

 

How do have a ending of a STAR WARS game a sequel to a GAME of the Year pc game and crap on the ending? Especially know that we see the intent was all along there to do it right?

 

There are only a few things worth doing right in life. Only so few things that are right, why add to it by crapping on something such as KOTOR and Star Wars? Its a enigma. One would hope though that people would at times realize the opportunites they have and make the best of them and never diminish or take away.

 

Probably what confounds so many people is some things should never be rushed or misstreated such as national anthems, old people, good books, good stories. KOTOR II was abused and short changed and the art suffered. Its the pain of the art that disturbs us most.

 

If Obsidian cant get a follow up to KOTOR I right, we feel fear and doubt. This should of been a easy homerun but they shanked it most foul.

 

They screwed up the story the most important part.

[Volourn]

"Perhaps we can get an apology from Obsidian. A complete apology, unlike the game, lol. That's the least the can do"

 

They don't owe us an apology.

[Master Dahvernas]

Interesting developments since I last posted.

 

1) I am glad others picked up on my question of whether or not we should pay for an expansion (should the possibility exist).

 

Even though it is a moot point, I was like most of you in that I would not pay for an expansion based on principle alone... But if it meant getting a more emotionally satisfying game experience in the end (no pun intended) I would.

 

2) I am glad someone actually cut through the red tape and got an "honest" response from OE that was posted (the e-mail).

 

What I don't like is that even though they were honest... They basically said that we were beta testers in terms of the overall game development process and that we all paid $50 for that "privillage" so OE can learn from their mistakes! Grrrr!

 

That's more than insulting... And I, like you, do understand deadlines and contractual obligations and am not some "internet jockey" who lives in a fantasy world and expects game companies to have all the time in the world to develop games. I just don't know...

 

3) I completely agree with who(m)ever said TSL should have been released around April or May to coinincide with Revenge of The Sith.

 

The similarites between the storylines in terms of the war and exile theme are almost begging to be paired together.

 

Can you imagine the synergy of the dark themes running through both the game and the movie? You can't plan for or even buy marketing like that and would be what is called a "happy accident" on the part of LA and George Lucas.

[manitsbuggy]

I always like it. There is always someone who stands up and says,"They dont owe us anything." "You got what you paid for." "YOu dont like it leave."

 

Boring. It does not excuse the fundamental error in judgment of money above art. Some would say its balls. Some call it pride. I am so sure Lucas Arts can be a real pain but the very fact alot of the missing stuff is included on the cd's is enough to disgust.

 

Your right they dont owe us. If you want to be a lawyer about it. Lets pretend we are pc gamers and this is a hobby and here we have a art form.

 

In this case its cracked. But I dont expect anything or want anything. I just want them to know how pathetic it looks to me as a hobbyist.

 

In this case as professionals making a living serving me goods I find them at grave fault. I have confidence the modders will fix it. Some really smart modders out there have already made many mods for KOTOR I. The mod will probably be called something like the "Revised Sith Lord Ending", and I am going to laugh my arse off playing it, and telling everyone about it.

 

I just want it for the record that KOTOR II has no ending. Its important to know. It should be important and known and not swept under the rug.

 

Just wait over the next 2-3 months when all the slow playing pc players start coming by the forums. Its not even started yet. At some point in the future I bet it will get so bad, very shortly they will start closing and baning posts.

[Volourn]

No.

[Torrentus]

As far as we can see, OE have realised what's happened. They know the ending was disatisfactory and they know we would prefer it changed. They would like to change it.

 

It is really LA's fault for the deadline. They had other options. As much as I would have preferred a HK Factory, A droid planet, A good ending, I think we've gone far enough slagging OE. They did all they could. I feel sorry for them. They can do no more than apologise, and learn from their mistakes, both of which they have done.

 

Basically, bothering OE is NOT going to get us anywhere, besides which, I still have high hopes for them. I hope they make KOTOR3. They have proved up to the task and are very quick to respond to public need (I mean, 28 minutes for a response which was hand typed is top notch). They made a game of good length, and worthy of Bioware's work, in a third of the time. And our only disappointment was the ending. Now with 3 years, what could they do. Seriously, with the way they're going, we could be seeing the birth of a new Squaresoft (and as much as I love FF, the latest RPGs are losing their touch, and KOTOR 1/ 2 were both better than FFX-2).

 

What we need to turn our attention to now is modding the old endings back in. Rather than complaining, doing something about it.

[draakh_kimera]

No.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Best damn reply in 40 pages of complete speculation and opinions.

 

To further stir up the s--tstack, let me pose the following question:

 

Does the game, the 50 bucks you spent on it, really matter this much too you? Honestly, does it REALLY mean that much, to anyone, in the long run? Has anyone suffered an identity crisis because of this ending yet? Yeah, some of you might think I'm coming across as pretty offensive, well, deal with it. It's just a game. Go drink beer. Or smoke a blunt. There's more important things to worry about then a game...

[Azon]

I just want them to know how pathetic it looks to me as a hobbyist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd say that 40 pages and a few tens of thousands of hits has probably gotten their attention "

 

I'd be interested in joining the modding team if someone could kindly point me to the thread which I believe Aurora started on the subject.

[manitsbuggy]

draakh_kimera, I was posting in a thread titled, "Cut Ending Stuff" at Obsidian Forums about KOTOR II. Then you rushed in all loud, and offensive and told everyone to shut up. Either you want attention or you are drunk or retarded.

 

Either way, 280,000 sold on the first day warrants dicussion. You however can feel free to go back outside and finish your blunt.

 

To the ones with a brain I say, "Yes the modders will do it." OE deserves nothing but what they deserve.

 

At some point in the future it might be advantegous to have a sticky titled, "Progress of the Sith Revised Ending MOd to direct people."

 

Its the only future for these forums because its just started. You think you can create a follow up to a game of the Year about Star Wars without a ending and not have tens of thousands eventually make their way here wondering wtf happenend at the end of the game.

 

Thats impossible. OE will have to answer for it, the moderators will have to deal with it. Every one of them is going to come here and make their 4-5 rants and by the end its going to be thousands.

[witchzenka]

Azon - go here:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144670

I saw that thread and rubbed my hands together in glee!

[213374U]

Go drink beer.  Or smoke a blunt.  There's more important things to worry about then a game...

And how exactly are those things more important than a game?

 

Man, I just love it when people give come in and provide insightful advice about life like that.