Hello There,

 

 

I have read around on these boards for quite sometime now and most people are saying this and that about KOTOR II with glitches and more glitches.

 

But if you think about it harder,no offence Obsidian I am sure you did a great Job but I just wanted to get peoples opinions.

 

so here is my question...

 

 

 

 

Should've Bioware Taken The Job For KOTOR II?

 

 

Cheero

 

KotorianRuler

:cool:

What's done is done - we can't change the past. The better question is who should develop KotOR III.

Oh, I think Obsidian could've done a good job. They just need to stand up to LA and say "We need this much time to do a good game, if you don't like that: Find another dev."

 

I am also of the opinion that several design choices made by Chris Avelleone on KotOR II just didn't fit in with the series. The lack of deep going romance plots being the one that stands out the most, IMO.

 

The influence system was a good idea: But poorly implemented. Next time try not to tie key plot points into it.

 

I'd prefer Bioware back for a possible KotOR III, but I think Obsidian could also do a decent job, they just need to go back and look at what made the first game so great, like the romances and NPC sidequests. People are still talking about those, so that should be a definate indicator of popularity right there.

 

The influence system needs a complete overhaul and party members have to be able to interact with each other outside of the Ebon Hawk as well, running back there all the time gets tedious.

 

And lastly: Time! If I recall correcly, Bioware spent 2

Both Obsidian and Bioware can do it, but they both need as much time as they require. Let them work on KOTOR 3 until they feel they are completely done, no deadline or anything.

 

Look at Half-Life 2, those developers kept on going for like 7 years, and the game is just excellent.

The more and more I look at this game, the more and more I point the finger at LA. I mean, KOTOR 2 had some great elements and some truly enthralling moments. I said in another thread how much I enjoyed the game playing it DS and it's kind of changed my opinion a little bit. I mean, all of the problems are still there (the glitches, unfinished ending, etc.), but you can really see the great potential of this game.

 

You've gotta remember, many of the same people that did KOTOR 2 did some of the best RPGs in PC gaming. KOTOR was my first experience with RPGs and that prompted me to go back and play the other games that Bioware and the former BIS had developed. I was just about equally enticed by BG, Icewind Dale, and NWN.

 

So, I don't think there's a question about OE having chance of doing a possible KOTOR 3. I just think they need however much time they want to deliver a good game. That's one of the reasons why I'm nearly going out of my skull for Jade Empire. Bioware has taken the better part of two years to develop that game so you know it's gonna be stupifyingly great.

 

The real question is, does OE even want to do a KOTOR 3 after this experience with LA.

Bioware did an great job with KotOR... and Obisidian could've done a great job on Sith Lords has they had the time. I have no doubt of that. And, it's not like Sith LOrds was a bad game... it just wasn't KotOR, which seemed to be an air tight, visually stunning, engaging game. Sith Lords had tons of promise and was well on the way to making some real strides over the original KotOR game... who knows what they could've done with more time? And as Jag said... we can't change the past.

To tell you guys the truth the only reason why I believe Bioware didn't developer K2 was that they were too busy with Jade Empire. I mean much of the KOTOR team is the Jade Empire team. So if they did make a K2 either K2 or JE would be crappy cause less time would be spent on one of them.

 

So Bioware just gave the KOTOR license to Obsidian to babysit for the time being. Once Jade Empire is out in March, I'd expect some type of KOTOR 3 announcement from Bioware at E3. Besides, I believe Bioware would use the Jade Empire engine for K3 which would be better. I don't think Bioware would give Obsidian the JE engine to do a K3. I just don't see them doing much of that. Let Obsidian do their own engine. It is like a kid in school constantly letting the dude beside him copy answers off of him.

 

Yes Obsidian could do a good job with K3, but at the end of the day Bioware (The team who started KOTOR glory) would be the better bet.

I agree. I blame LA for TSL's shortcomings. OE had an excellent premise, excellent execution for the most part, and very few real "problems with the game in and of itself." For me the issue was a ton of little things, but very few big things.

It's also a matter of style. I'm generalizing here but Bioware and Obsidian/Black Isle have different design philosophies.

 

Bioware tries to make their rpgs as appealing to the general gamer as possible. They tend to take the safer route by having clearly definable good/evil choices and play around with themes and story plots that are mora palatable to younger gamers. They place a heavy emphasis on humor and on simpler roleplaying choices. They follow a formula that works and sells games.

 

Black Isle/Obsidian rpgs tend to be darker and more mature. Their games are more morally ambigious and require greater player introspective to fully enjoy. They tend to experiment more with their story structure.

 

Bioware has more and a greater variety of fan types than Black Isle/Obsidian, but those that are loyal to BIS/Obs tend to be more rabid because they see themselves as more sophisticated than Bio fans.

 

I like both (all 3?) companies and their games in anear equal manner.

 

To answer the question, NO. I like diversity. If Bio made K@, they would have mada K2 more of the same.

 

If you want to see A KoTOR sequel by Bioware, play the Baldur's Gate or NWN series. The story design for those games are similiar in structure to KoTOR.

"Black Isle/Obsidian rpgs tend to be darker and more mature. Their games are more morally ambigious and require greater player introspective to fully enjoy. They tend to experiment more with their story structure."

 

No.

 

As for the actual issue, BIo would have done a good job with KOTOR2. I'm sure Obsidian can; and did. I have some thinsg I've ehard about KOTOR2 I dislike; but I'm sure I'll like it overall.

"Black Isle/Obsidian rpgs tend to be darker and more mature. Their games are more morally ambigious and require greater player introspective to fully enjoy. They tend to experiment more with their story structure."

 

No.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes.

 

And I'm a Bio fanboy. You're just wrong.

should Bioware have done Part 2? Well the obvious answer (that has nothing to with STL that Obsidian made ) is yes. I still dont understand Biowares thinking process here of giving up a huge money maker in favor of (what looks awsome but is unproven) Jade Empires.

 

Does it matter if Bioware or Obsidian made TSL? Naaaaa, both games top notch and fun. So both now have a solid product people can point to as examples when doing the whole bioware vrs Obsidian arguement!

"Yes.

 

And I'm a Bio fanboy. You're just wrong."

 

How can you say BIS games are so 'dark" and "mature" when they have comedians like Morte and they have the PC raped by a mutant. R00fles! That is so mature.

 

How exactly is IWD2 so deep when it's basically 'Demon & Devil Hates Each Other So They Use Mortals' in the most basic of ways.

 

Remember, I like these games; but theya re mostc ertainly aren't the hieght of matureity or dark. Neither are BIO games for that matter.

 

Of course, BIo's games have 'dark' and 'mature' stuff too.

 

Or did you forget about the mother whose children were all slaughtered and you have to make the all losing choice (unless you are evil) of telling her her chidlren died or not in which either way the consequences are not good. This is in the OC.

 

Not one BIS situation is 'darker' or 'more mature' than that, imo. Some may be on equal footing; but not more so.

How can you say BIS games are so 'dark" and "mature" when they have comedians like Morte and they have the PC raped by a mutant. R00fles! That is so mature.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I call that dark humor.

 

You bring up specific examples. That's good, but also misleading. As anyone who's taken stats 101 would know, there are always outliers. There are always instances are exceptions. When you look at the big picture, BIS games tend to be darker and aimed at a more mature audience than Bio games.

I give examples; you give me mathematic talk. Are we discussing games or are we discussing numbers theory? Make up your mind,a dn we can continue if you want.

I give examples; you give me mathematic talk. Are we discussing games or are we discussing numbers theory? Make up your mind,a dn we can continue if you want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wouldn't be prudent. We were supposed to be discussing whether Bio should have made K2.

Ahh.. I see. Good side stepping.

 

I alreayd commented on the main issue on the thread. Aptly, per usual, people ignore my on topic comments and cocnentrate on my off topic stuff. I guess I need to be more 'controversal' when giving my opinion on on topic stuff. LOL

umm... its "should not have" which is then shortened to "shouldn't have" which is sometimes shortened to "shouldn't 've" not should've (atleast in the way your using it...)

Well I put this, from what I read KotOR II is not much Star Wars.

 

Canon debates aside the issue is that Star Wars follows a very simple formula, its possible to play around with that to a point were it stops being Star Wars and starts being something else.

 

BioWare did use very simple things in their game that are consistent with Star Wars themes as OE gone down a route that by exploring some aspects of the Star Wars universe they have gone too far.

 

To tell the truth I rather not see KotOR III because the team that works in that game will face a dificult choice ... either abandon TLS so they can make their own story or they are forced to follow a storyline that they did not create since doing both will be asking for trouble.

IIRC, Bioware had the intention of making one single KotOR and then focus on other projects like Jade Empire, Dragon Age and some next generation console project (I heard something of an sci-fi space opera). It can also be speculated on why your character was lvl 20 at the end of the game, thus leaving no room for expansion-packs or direct sequels. So no more KotOR from Bioware atleast.

 

I'm actually playing KotOR 1 again for some old time sake, and everything feels a bit "meh". Too simple, shallow dialogue and characters (especially Bastila). Thus, i actually hope for Obsidian making KotOR III. Given proper time i think that they have the capability to end the series in a way that would satisfy most fans.

umm...  its "should not have"  which is then shortened to "shouldn't have"  which is sometimes shortened to "shouldn't 've"  not should've (atleast in the way your using it...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info, Kobold.

I'm actually playing KotOR 1 again for some old time sake, and everything feels a bit "meh". Too simple, shallow dialogue and characters (especially Bastila). Thus, i actually hope for Obsidian making KotOR III. Given proper time i think that they have the capability to end the series in a way that would satisfy most fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

heh Mes, this is one of the things I been pointing out. KotOR2 makes folks think alot more then KotOR1 did. Its a more complex storyline and that might be why some folks have issue with it.

 

Think of recent releases (halo 1&2, KotOR1, ect) They all just lead you from dot a to dot b to dot c, ect. You cant mess them up (other then dieing). KotOR2 makes you think of multiple strings at the same time, unlike those games. Thats the biggest change I noticed in KotOR2.

 

And while its just my opinion, when I hear people complain about the game but then say that Republic Commando demo (think thats the name, only tried it for like 10 minutes before shutting it off) is a great game, it tells me those players dont want to have to think while playing. They want a point a to point b to point c game.

 

Different tastes is all, I always get a chuckle thinking back to a old Wizardry game where you find the Thermal Pineapple early on but its used much much later in game and you couldnt finish game with out the item (meaning you HAD to save it all that time) and wonder/imagine the types of complaints that would be spamming the forums for that game! LOL, I mean KotOR2 no where even close to that extream and look at the complaints for it!

 

Anyways, thats my theory, todays gamers just not use to being challenged mentally, they expect a map telling them to do A,B,C,D,E,F and KotOR2 just doesnt do that. To them the fighting is the challenge, not the story. I back that theory up by pointing out all the "What happens to so and so" questions that were completely answered in game by completelying all the side influence/quests. People just not paying attention to the story of game and then upset when its not handed to them.

I still dont understand Biowares thinking process here of giving up a huge money maker in favor of (what looks awsome but is unproven) Jade Empires.

 

Bioware's thinking was that they had done a whole string of games based on licensed settings and wanted to create a setting (or settings) of their own. Think about it - Baldur's Gate I & II, Neverwinter Nights, and KOTOR. Sure, Bioware did them all well, but when all is said and done Bioware doesn't own any of those games. By creating their own stuff (Jade Empire, Dragon Age, etc.) they have greater creative flexibility (no canon to follow) and they own it themselves and their profit potential is greater as a result. If it fails they can always fall back to doing licensed stuff. Also, Bioware's management has made it clear that they do not want to grow beyond a certain size, which limits how many projects they can be working on at one time. Doing KOTOR 2 would have meant delaying something else they wanted to do.

 

My guess is that Obsidian or someone else entirely will end up doing KOTOR 3, though the fact that Lucas was developing it in house earlier does raise some questions that have not been answered.

I'm glad Bio didn't do KOTOR 2. Obsidian did a good job for the time they were given to complete it. Now, that they proved successful with KOTOR 2 i'm looking forward to them doing KOTOR 3 with a little more breathing room from LA.

Think of recent releases (halo 1&2, KotOR1, ect) They all just lead you from dot a to dot b to dot c, ect. You cant mess them up (other then dieing). KotOR2 makes you think of multiple strings at the same time, unlike those games. Thats the biggest change I noticed in KotOR2.

 

Are these the only games you've ever played? Each time you try and prove one of your "points" you bring up Halo... Having a FPS and RPG and comparring them is ignorant.

 

And while its just my opinion, when I hear people complain about the game but then say that Republic Commando demo (think thats the name, only tried it for like 10 minutes before shutting it off) is a great game, it tells me those players dont want to have to think while playing. They want a point a to point b to point c game.

 

Again, DIFFERENT GENRE. Republic Commando is a SQUAD BASED SHOOTER. KOTOR is a ROLEPLAYING GAME. Do you see the brutally obvious difference here?

 

I know you won't answer, because you are trying to act as though you don't read my posts. But oh well, better luck next time, trying to prove your point, eh?