Kalfear

Welp gotta say I think alot of you putting the cart way before the horse on this topic. Of course the MMORPG is going to have a monthly rate, thats a given from where im standing but that doesnt make it bad (well depending on the monthly rate of course). Bioware has aproven track record of creating very indepth quests/missions so I TOTALLY EXPECT them to continue with that level of story telling in their MMORPG. I think Bioware can make a great MMORPG if EA gives them the time needed to make it properly. Plus being in the KotOR setting is just a huge bonus. Totally dont think this project is KotOR3 though for couple reasons. First and formost, KotOR was never advertised as a trilogy. The games open endings make it feel like one but LA never actually came out and said its a Trilogy like Bioware has done for Mass Effects. 2nd off, the Revan Storyline would be to restrictive as a global mission for a MMORPG. I could see fighting against Revan or going on a quest to find him but there is some much else to the setting. KotOR is not 100% about Revan. There is so much more to the time period and setting then just Revan. Honestly I wouldnt mind at all if they just left Revan outta the game all togather and focused on the KotOR setting rather then whats been told in offline games. Anyways, as I said, im just giddy with excitement over this prodject, I cant wait (well I can). Going to come back to online gaming refreshed and with new level of excitement and cant wait to play a jedi and a sith and explore all there will be to both characters. PS: If they allow creature Handlers to the game I quit before it even starts! Leave UO classes in UO!

So read this news on a different forum I visit and just had to pop back here and gloat (lol!) I told everyone a year ago when Bioware announced a undisclosed project it would be a MMORPG but I got shouted down by the so called "Smart Marks" of the forum at the time. My turn to gloat (grins) Ok, now that over with (heh), Im actually REALLY PUMPED about a KotOR MMORPG. Galaxies is a joke and is (and always was) basically Ultima Online with a Star Wars shell. I have to beleive Bioware will be a better job, even though it is their first MMORPG ever. The only thing that scared me is the possibility EA doesnt give them enough time to do it right. BUT, I sure hope someone makes aKotOR 3 as well. Loved 1 and 2 so of course I will play 3 if its ever made. Just like I will for sure play Jade Empire 2 and Mass Effects 2-3. You dont pass on quality titles! Things im looking forward to from the MMORPG: 1) Exploration. Exploration has always been a important aspect of Bioware games and I have no doubt that it will remain so in a MMORPG. I hope they start like Galaxies with 10 or so planets and then unlike Galaxies add a new planet every year in the yearly expansion. Just think of all the possibilities. LOL, im giddy with excitement. 2) Jedi (and Sith) As the game takes place in Old Republic, JEDI and SITH are active. I got so freaking bored to death in Galaxies with all the whines about how there should be no Jedi or Sith in the ANH time frame. This time frame allows Jedi and Sith so that should eliminate all the whiners from Galaxies. 3) The Sith Academy of Korriban and the temples behind it. OMG I CANT WAIT. KotOR just touched the surface of this planet and its endless adventure. Even though I normally play the hero I might make a sith just to experience this area. Again im giddy with excitement! 4) A new start. Earlier this year I finally got tired of the backstabing and politics of my goodie guild and left and quit ALL MMORPGS. I swore I would not return to MMORPGs for any game other then a new KotOR Star Wars MMORPG. This is going to be exciting! For the last 16 years have lead a goodie guild and all the head aches that come with that never truely playing and doing whats best for me personally. Now I get to find a new guild, make new online freinds (cause my old ones disowned me for quiting guild...LOL good freinds huh?). Im actually excited, a new begining in a new game for me. I get to make new contacts that are for me not guild. No more spending endless hours in meetings and crap for a bunch of selfish people that never give back (not all to be fair but some, more then should have been). No more helping someone level 3 different characters in game after game after game only to see them/her refuse to help anyone else when asked. hehehe, I get to be a hero under my own terms. I cant wait What I dont wanna see: 1) Wow clone. I really hope KotOR MMORPG is more alike their Xbox game then just taking ideas from WOW. I know WOW is popular and has a huge subscriber list but that doesnt make it the best game on the market, just the most popular. What I am hoping for is a nice balance between grouping and solo play, very indepth influence system (you should be rewarded for doing good or bad deeds), and a challenge (you shouldnt max out in 3 days... maybe 3 months but not 3 days). 2) Children. I hope the game is designed for adults, 18 and older. To many games (WOW specifically) dumb themselves down to attract the lowest common denominator online. I hope KotOR MMORPG is better then that. Let WOW have the dredges of society, I want my SW game to be smart and appealing. Anyways, thats my preliminary lists, Ill add more later. So how about anyone else? Looking forward to this and why? Not looking forward and why? Lets have a discussion that doesnt get locked down.

Definately the Old Republic for me. Thats the time line that holds the most interest for me. Course im NOT a skywalker/darth vader fan so that kinda ruins ANH and later stories. I would write about Old Republic, jedi, sith, and beyond known space.

1) Again find a different forum then to be apart of, Take this forum for example, I use to be a regular contributer here but because of posters like Tale coming In I rarley post or read here because truth be told, its just a waste of my time and energy to argue with someone so far below my level. He/She is below me. Sounds arogent but sadly its true. Id much rather spend time debateing with folks that challenge and expand my knowledge then argue about mundane things that dont matter. 2) well thing is, all forums always represent a small minority. Simple fact is the mass majority of players dont waste their times in forums, they spend time playing game. This the reason why I always been a advocate of in game polling by companies so they get a true representation of what the majority wants/needs. 3) Naaa, in many MMORPGS they only appear to listen to a small minority, fact is most MMORPGs dont listen to anyone at all. They only appear to listen to some group, appearence can be misleading. For the record, Eve (I played when first released) isnt a true mmorpg. Because of that how it handles issues in fact would impact subscription base harder then a normal mmorpg. I have many freinds that remain playing it and they are very satisfied with the changes EvE has made over the years so not sure what your unhappy with. 4) How much is up to designers. Fact is though, be it a little or alot, jedi are stronger then bounty hunters and only the designers can answer how much or how little. However thats NOT up to the playing public. Never has been and never should be.

Not sure what your trying to get at here Silent? I read the quoted peice and really the poster said nothing at all to be honest. Seems to me the guy was complaining about forums (and if im reading right forums not owed or operated by game creater). To the poster I would say, if you dont like the community there, try a different community. Different message forums offer different rules and experiences, you just have to look around to find them is all. What I think you are talking about is the mess that was SWG. Listen SWG was miss ran from day one. Be it the game or the forums related to the game. Every "change" the mods made were not changes supported by the general public but changes that were requested by a small group of players that had the mods ears and were only out to benefit themselves and not the game over all. The experiences people had in SWG should not be looked at as the norm for MMORPGs. Usually game designers look to create expansions and changes supported by the majority of players. This is why game changing changes and expansions almost always have a open beta/trial period before going live. SWG is the ONLY game I can think of that didnt let the player base have a say in general. As for the "who should be more powerful" arguement. Thats easy. Jedi by design are more powerful then Bounty Hunters, end of topic and arguement.

Yet another leap in logic. Bio has had MMO under work (prolly just in preproduction tho' ) for years. Only IP's deal/promise was exactly that. Now we see how much we can trust Bio's word. Still, can't said their IP's have been dramatically original to this date either... what a let down. Maybe DA changes that. ROFLMAO! So your logic on topic is disbeleive Biowares word and form your own opinion ignoring the facts??? LOL, WOW, thats all I can really say about that. I now understand why you and Tale and others think so steadily its K3. Hell why stop at K3? Maybe Bioware and LA making a animated SW7 movie and not a game at all. I mean if were going to toss all the info away and just make **** up

How so Calax? Im just using what we all know (minus the unreliable websites like Tale was quoting). As I said before, at some point you just have to look at the facts and rumors and say 1+1 does infact equal 2. look at the facts and rumors and tell me how you can attain any other conclusion? I just dont see how myself. Fact: Bioware and LA have joined forces again Fact: Bioware not interested in doing other companies single player IP games anymore Fact: Bioware is making a MMORPG by their own admission Fact: SWG loses Star Wars Licence in 2009 Rumor: KotOR MMORPG is being made in Austin Rumor: KotOR3 is NOT being made at all BTW: For the record im happy with MMORPG or KotOR3 (for xbox 360). Either or makes me a happy gamer SWG sucks and is basically UO with a Star Wars shell so Ive always wanted a better mmorpg for SW (set in KotOR time as its a better more playable time frame). KotOR3 needed to finish off the trilogy as 2 left us hanging story wise. Either makes me happy so I really have no preference, just logically speaking KotOR3 just doesnt make any sence when you look at all the facts involved.

Perhaps it is true that Bioware mite be producing a MMORPG. But not likely based on the Knights Of The Old Republic where Revan & the Exile are concerned. They are probably reserving toughs titles for single player game play at the very lest. But it dose not mean that they are not developing & actually MMORPG of The Knights Of The Old Republic Era. That could, but not necessarily use the D20 system & art form from Knights Of The Old Republic single player games... naaa MMORPG makes sence. Its obvious now that its KotOR3 OR KotOR MMORPG. But at some point common sence has to play into the topic, the mmorpg rumors have been flying around since bioware announced they making one. KotOR3 however have NOT been flying around at all. In fact its pretty common knowledge, as Bioware flat out said it regarding kotor2" They have no interest at all in doing someone elses IP single player game. Thats why they didnt make KotOR2, LA offered it to them and they declined and offered up Obsidian because they wanted to focus on their own IPs. So with Mass Effects coming out on Nov 20, and Jade Empire 2 in the rumor section to start the next year, KotOR3 just doesnt fit no matter how hard you wish for it. Bioware just NOT interested in other companies single player IP games. Really cant be any more clear then that. So lets use some common sence here folks. Fact: Bioware and LA have joined forces again Fact: Bioware not interested in doing other companies single player IP games anymore Fact: Bioware is making a MMORPG by their own admission Fact: SWG loses Star Wars Licence in 2009 Rumor: KotOR MMORPG is being made in Austin Rumor: KotOR3 is NOT being made at all final result: Bioware making a MMORPG based on KotOR for Lucas Arts to release sometime after 2009 (2010 would be a better bet). If you come to any other conclusion you really just trolling and trying to start arguements for arguements sake. PS: Made this new thread cause after reading old thread, Tale and groupies had pretty much taken that topic of topic and spammed it, so new topic was needed.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The contention in regards to Lucasarts is if it is even an MMO AT ALL. Not what brand of MMO it is. This would only apply if you've seen or heard anything. You've seen nothing and the only thing you've heard is a rumor from a non-reputable source. If it looks like nothing and you heard it's a duck from a drunken hobo, it might be a duck, but it also might be a tubesock. umm the link I provided is legit, Its a joint announcement from both Bioware and Lucas Arts. Again if they make this announcement (looks like a duck) then put up mmorpg area on their site (sounds like a duck) not a huge leap to put two togather (is a duck) Your the one tossing around non reputable sources, I only beleive what the companies say and do. Again, they NOW admit they working togather again OFFICALLY They add new area to web site same day (not a accident) pretty easy to tell they doing a MMORPG togather based on Star Wars. Since Biowares SW success has been KotOR its a pretty easy guess what the MMORPG will be about.

Thing is, LA doesnt have the Rights to Firefly, it does however own the Star Wars right which is why a official announcement that LA and Bio working togather adds merit to the rumor its a KotOR game, Plus just looked at Bioware site and as of the 30th (same day as this announcement) a MMORP forum gone up. LOL, if its looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might be a duck

freind sent this to me, doesnt say WHAT they working on togather but they ARE doing something Exciting News For BioWare Fans [Oct 30] LucasArts and BioWare have entered into an agreement to create an interactive entertainment product. The product, details of which will be unveiled at a later date, will be developed and published by BioWare and LucasArts. http://www.lucasartsbioware.com/

Online GM events was done in NWN (original on AOL) and the Realms (seirra) MMORPGames. Its a great concept but because of size of MMORPGS now adays Its wouldnt have the same flare or effect. Back then you could only get, upto 200 players online at one time, now adays you have 1000s and 1000s online at one time, there is no way a GM could run a event the same way of have the same effect in modern games. A couple of guild mates (in old guild I founded then cancelled) got GM items from events in EQ2, sfter learning how they obtained them it was more like GM just picked them outta the blue then them doing anything special to get item (all you had to do was appear at said spot). GM run events a nice idea but not truely feasible anymore because of numbers of players.

LOL wow, you and Tale must be a newbie tag team to this forum. Both of you really need to enter reality, Mass Effects is going to do HUGE numbers and be a top earner and most played game of the year easily. And how do you know the combat sucks? Since the pre sales havent even gone out yet? Sorry but its not Nov 20th yet little one. Let me guess, you call Mass Effects in the Fantasy genre (and not sci fi) as well dont you. How about you actually play the game before you pass judgement.

Anyone know when SW Series going to hit the TV? We need a good Sci fi series again

KOTOR is Fantasy. Even moreso than Star Wars proper. KotOR is sci fi but thanks for that oh so important addiction you made. To answer someone elses question SWG had pretty much every class you could think of, including classes that didnt exist in SW (creature Handler...LOL I didnt see any people running around the planets with pet rancors following them in toe in any of the movies). Really though, the classes wouldnt be that hard to make, start with soldier, scout, smuggler like KotOR 1 did and at some point allow players to trade up to a more advanced class, be it jedi, sith, bounty hunter, which ever and have a interesting and complete story line of quests to attain those classes. Problem solved. At one point in SWG history they created the force sensitive village, this was by far the best creation they ever made, just they FORGOT that going jedi was a solo thing and they forced grouping in the village which ruined the idea. Any KotOR MMORPG could make the same type of thing but created for solo play with more story and its all over but the crying. Anyways, again I still think a Mass Effects or Jade Empire MMORPG more likely from Bioware but at least there is hope in there being a DECENT SW MMORPG

A KotOR MMORG wouldnt surprise me either, really its something that has to happen regardless of the very few naysayers that cant see the big picture. Bioware doing it would surpise me thogh, Id expect a Mass Effects MMORPG from them before they did anouther companies IP again. Still though Im crossing my fingers and toes for a KotOR MMORPG by a company that knows the product and can deliver a quality game (unlike SWG). Just way to many Fantasy MMORPGs out there and The new TR by Richard Garriot is a terrible terrible game.

A KotOR MMO would be a dream come true but im not betting on it myself. First off Bioware been very clear they only interested in their own IPs and KotOR is not one of them. Im hoping Lucas Arts does make a kotor mmorpg but after they make kotor3 (for xbox 360 only). A Kotor mmorpg wou;ld be a huge seller and a bonified hit from word go, hopefully it does happen but its not going to be Bioware making it im afraid.

thanks to those that replied realistically, to bad Alan doesnt fit that crowd! Ahhh well moronic children will be moronic children till they put to bed (Alan wont see this till Friday as posting after his bed time) Guess he felt put off when I said no more liberal spin. Ruined his whole comback. Just to play devils advocate here (go look it up Alan, not going to explain what the word means to you), Ummm if they transfered money before the law went into effect, they kinda set themselves up for the fall now didnt they, so again how this anyones fault but their own? Its pretty common knowledge to not accept anything from any political figure at face value, so why would anyone go running to a bank to buy up income trusts based on a election promise??? Anyways, hadn't thought about bank charges but cant see those hitting $70,000.00 as the liberals are telling the media. Liberals on recrod saying some seniors lost $70,000.00 on the change of policy. I just dont buy that at all. Oh and no Pid, you cant lose something you never had. Its just a fact of life im afraid!

hehe thought I would throw this question out there to see what peoples take on it is. Now im a educated person, had a licence to sell stocks and bonds and all that a few years ago. But the full understanding of the income trust issue eludes me. I honestly think it eludes most people to be honest and only those proffessionals involved in income trusts actually understand it fully, not the average person. Having said that I understand the jist of the topic and why The Finance minister was forced to NOT remove the taxation from it. The conservatives promised not to tax income trust (its always been taxed in the past). Upon the conservatives getting power the large industries transfered many of their money assests to income trusts to avoid paying taxes Upon seeing this move by industry the finance minister had no choice but to continue to tax income trusts or lose over a billion dollars in taxation from said industries! All this pretty clear and understandable. What I dont understand is the senior citizens claims they losing major money because of this decision. Hoping someone can explain this (no partisan liberal rants please, just stick to facts) Seems to me since income trusts were always taxed, and conservatives didnt raise the taxation levels (they didnt, I checked) how can seniors be lossing money when in theory they should be paying the same taxation on income trust as they didlast year and the year before. Nothing has changed. Now I understand them being upset that conservatives went back on promise to eliminate taxation on income trusts, but as explained above no one could realistically predict big business would try to use that promise as such a huge tax shelter so obviously. But the fact remains all the same, you paid a certain percentage last year, you paid a certain percentage the year before, you wil be paying a certain percentage this year, how have you lost money??? You havent gained money true, but you also havent lost money because its the same system just being carried over. Can anyone explain this to me cause I just dont get it. To lose something you first have to have it, and all the conservatives did was keep income trust taxation at the same level as previous years.

Finally, 1) sorry Oer let me resphase that, send me a link from a CREDIBLE NON PARTISAN source (like stats Canada) The CBC and Toronto Star are KNOWN Liberal partisan media outlets and their numbers never match the rest of the medias or pollsters numbers. May as welkl quote the national enquirer if you taking their numbers and statements seriously. So afraid you going to have to do better then that! 2) So now corrupt doesnt means theft or stealing? Wow thats a pretty wide meaning for a word. Hear the facts, THIS CURRENT Conservative party has not stolen money (current liberals have), Harper has NOT lied to us as of yet (Current liberals have). I dont understand how you can call them corrupt? You dont trust them, well guess what, neither do I, after all the proffessional political people. But that alone doesnt make them corrupt! To be corrupt you have to steal and lie, current conservatives have done neither to date, liberals AND NDP both have on numerous occations and continue to do so to this day and never get called on it because of the left slant to the media in this country. In closing: ANyways folks, I could talk Politics all day if you want but you and alan and volo (who has yet to prove anything at all) need to start making correct and factual statements for it to be interesting and worthwhile. Im not going to argue the misinformation the liberals and NDP put out daily right now as if they were faccts because they not. If I did that I may as well debate the color of the sky for as relevant as it would be. If you guys wanna do your homework and come back with factual and relative information ill be here ready but till then going to stop repling to the misinformation stuff. Sorry but just not worth the effort in the long run.

Im not exagerating. Go look up the last election results if you want to debate/argue this but lets keep it real. The liberals were ONLY supported in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver, the rest of canada said no thanks to them. Yes 15% voted liberal in alberta, that was to be expected with the recent influx of Eastern transplants that moved there, but those 15% were spread over the whole province and accounted for ZERO seats in the election. Lets not try to mislead. A party getting 15% of the votes should not win a seat and they didnt, they are basically a non entity in Alberta. WRONG, Conservatives won by a clear margin but because 3 cities have more seats then most PROVINCES (which is wrong in itself) the liberals were able to almost win. Again lets keep the discussion in reality. Liberals were CLEARLY not the choice of the majority of Canadians last election. Hell far as land mass representation the NDP were more popular. But again we come into a messed up electorial that benifits the few over the many. The house of commons is SUPPOSE to be set up based on population but that setting is 100 years outta date and grossly needs reform. So your supporting a system that was accurate 100 years ago and now doesnt support regional OR majority settings. 100 years ago Toronto was the center of the universe far as Canada was concerned, that is no longer the case. Well lets see, Communists beleive in unionized everything, so does the NDP Communists beleive in State run programs removing the say of individuals, so does the NDP ect ect ect In reality the NDP is nothing but communism under a new flag. Has nothing to do with how I feel, study politics, understand politics and this will become appearent to you as it is to any learned person regarding the topic Polls I refer to can be found on stats canada web site along with (forget name off hand, the offical polling center used by ALL legit media (not CBC or Toronto Star) during election). Im on their mailing list and get a new poll each and every month from them. They are used on CPac as well as CTV and Global if that helps! And of course much of the information Im saying here in in your newpaper, just pick up a copy each day or visit a none partisan (again not CBC or Toronto Star) media website for todays top stories. Read the articles for information and then make you mind up ON THE INFORMATION and not the political spin. Again you show your ignorance on the topic. Alberta has NEVER received money from Ottawa, even when they were bankrupt because Ottawa was stealing all their oil in the 70s/80s. To say otherwise is just flat out flase and partisan nonsence. You are right that Ontario also has never recieved but Ontario also has gone years where they DIDNT PAY Either. Alberta has paid EVERY YEAR since the creation of revenue sharing and has consistantly been the HIGHEST PAYER year after year despite not haveing the most population. Last year Ontaorio paid on average $1 per person to revenue sharing where as Alberta paid a whoping $8 per person to revenue sharing. You tell me how this is proper or fair? Quebec has NEVER paid to revenue sharing and year after year asks for and recieves the most amount of handouts! I think this area should be reflected in who has a greater say in the direction of the country to be honest. After all Id rather have employeed/educated people making the rules then welfare reciepiants. The welfare people should have some say but their say should be balanced on their production and imput into the country. And before you suggest im some rich elistist, im on disability so saying my single vote shouldnt count as much as someone who pays for me to enjoy health care and such. Its only common sence imo. again I get my numbers from stats canada, I figure ill just goto the SOURCE rather then some 3rd party partisan hack job site. This is not an issue of electoral seats. As I said, the House of Commons is a Represenation by Population legislature. This should not change. Granting Alberta more power simply because the province makes money is effectively purchasing the power. It gives additional power to the wealthy, which is exactly how the democratic process should NOT be. I am not in favour of giving Alberta more power in the House of Commons simply because of oil and the wealth it provides. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its exactly a issue of electorial seats. Give albertians a fair and proper number of seats so their vote impacts the direction of Canada and they would stop complaining, plain and simple. And the power arguement is funny, so dont give votes based on power, how about just REALISTICALLY updating the population numbers and asigning seats based on that. That alone would strip the unbalanced power from the East. The Electorial set up right now is 100 years old and grossly outta date. Cant say it any clearer to you then that.

Guard they have two viable parties in the Conservatives and Liberals then two more minor parties that will never hold power but screw up the process as they play spoilers and blockers in the NDP and Bloq. The NDP are socialists that beleive in state run everything where there is no aspect of lives that people run on their own. Everything and anything is state ran and monitored. The Bloq is a seperatist party outta Quebec (they only run in Quebec) and they really are more about holding the federal government hostage so get more stuff for Quebec then anything else these days! Honestly the Bloq shouldnt be apart of the federal government landscape as they truely dont meet the criteria as a federal party but allowed to partake anyways after holding Canada hostage once again to get offically recognized. Then after that you have the emergence of the green party which is what it sounds like. Nature first and economy and everythinbg else be damned. On the enviroment Green and NDP very similiar but Green doesnt preach socialism on the other aspects of Canada).

ummm Oer? What election were you watching? Here is how messed up the canadian eletorial is. The Conservatives got sweaping votes across the country (from atlantic Canada to BC) The Liberals got ALL their votes from, Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver (thats no exageration either, the only votes the liberal got were from those 3 cities) And yet the liberals came within 20 seats of defeating the conservatives for power over the country. To give a example for our american neighbors, imagine if a political party only got votes in New York (the city not the state), Los Angles, and Denver and then almost formed the presidential party in power. You would call that messed up right? I sure would but thats EXACTLY what happened in our last election. Conservatives swept all the Rural votes accross the country and swept Calgary, Edmonton and a number of other cities. In fact the Liberals did not recieve ONE SEAT in the entire province of Alberta. Yet they came with in 20 seats of taking power! Im sorry but thats just screwed up! Also as for the NDP getting a minority Party, do you hate Canada that much? Im being serious here. EVERYTIME the NDP have ever held power (provincial levels as thats the only places they ever won at) they have created record breaking debts for those provinces. Why on earth would you want them to run our country? We are finally getting outta debt from the Trudeau era of over spending, why plummet our country back into massive debt? Seriously. Read the NDP social platforms, it all sounds nice and great but NO WHERE do they ever explain how they going to pay for all this. The reason for this is because they CANT with out building up huge debt! And lastly, (Im sick of hearing this flat out lie) please show me where the conservatives have stolen from us? You make the claim they are corrupt, so please supply proff to your statement as im sick to death of blanket leftist lies. For the record, I do not support any one party and approach each election on a who is best for the country. I have voted in the past for Liberals and Conservatives and even once for the Green (you cant pay me to vote NDP as im not a fan of communism). Right now Harper and the conservatives are the BEST choice for the Country bar none. What they do need however is a majority because of the liberal senate bogging down all their bills in endless paper work. We need to get Harper a majority so he can force through ELECTED senates to stop the left from holding our country hostage because of partisan, lifelong term appointments as is currently happening. We need to get Harper a Majority so he can force throw Electorial reform (a bill that the liberals will NOT EVER SUPPORT). We need to get Harper a Majority so Canadian citizens are protected by their country and government rather then just handed over with out any evidence as the liberals did to Arar. We need to get Harper a majority so he can fullfill his enviromental promises (again liberals and ndp attack him on enviroment yet block all his bills). Why are you not mad that the liberals had 10 million stashed away to BUY clear air credits from other countries. THATS WHY they didnt reduce any polution when in office, there plan was to spend our taxes buying green house gas credits from other countries to meet the Kyoto targets! Harper cancelled Kyoto and used OUR TAXES to build "made in canada" solutions. Thus far his 4 enviromental announcements (in 1 year) are 4 more then the liberals delivered in 10 years of office. And please dont talk to me about the NDP, again read their platform, their enviromental solution would cause mass lay offs and economical decline! Harper is trying to help the enviroment with out impacting jobs. NDP doesnt care about jobs or people! Sorry if im pationate about this topic but I follow politics very closely and right now Canada is in the BEST SHAPE its been in, in the last 11 years. And the polls say Ontario and Quebec are just going to throw that all away and the rest of Canada be damned! That pisses me off to no end! PS: Please supply a link to your 65% quote. actual numbers are reversed, Harper won the popular vote with 65% of the votes but because of electorial seats being so outta whack only got a minority government! Thats the problem with the left, truth and factual statements rarely come into play here! PPS: Umm volo, if im making incorrect staements please show me what ones? My info comes from polling data and actual history. Dont just say im wrong, correct me if you can! PPPS: TO the other poster that said he veiws himself as Canadian. In the most recent polling data done, ALL of Alberta veiw themselves as canadian and WANT to stay in Canada as the first choice. BUT they followed that statement up with "I would vote to leave if electorial reform doesnt become a reality in the near future". Alberta (unlike Quebec) WANTS to stay in Canada, they want to be apart of canada, but they HAVE to have a say in Canada. Right now (with how electorial seats set up) they simply have no say what so ever. In the last election, the seperatist vote rose 200% in Alberta. Now thats not enough for them to get even one seat there but such a drastic increase does send a pretty clear message to the rest of Canada. That message is include us or we are going to leave! Edmonton and Calgary are the FASTEST growing cities in Canada, Alberta has the LOWEST unemployement in Canada, Pays the MOST federal transfer charges in Canada, has the BEST health care in Canada (paid for by province, not federal government) yet has less number of seats as Toronto (the city) has for electorial purposes. pppps: sorry for long post all, was alot to cover

aye thats what it means. I currently live in the east now (but grew up in the west) and can say people out here are totally oblivious to the problems caused by the liberals in the west. They really have no clue or just dont care. Either way, arrogence or ignorance not valid reasoning for the way easterners think. The alienation started many many decades ago and has continued to this day in the east vrs west battle in canada. Everyone always points to quebec as worrying about them seperating, IMO they should spend more time worrying about the west. With out the west canada has no oil, no real natural gas, very limited forestry, almost no food production (agriculteral or beef). You lose Quebec you lose a province that receives the highest amount of handouts every year from the government. You lose the west you lose the people PAYING the hand outs. You tell me which should be a higher priority? And if Alberta and other western provinces decided to leave, they not going to make some political party to rape the federal government with demands and threats (like the Bloq), they simply going to pack up their boarders and leave. Turning Canada from one of the top ten richest countries into one of the top ten poorest countries over night. Thats how much the West impacts Canada yet to this date they still have no say or imput on electing the countries leader. As I said though, if current polls mean anything at all, expect the liberals (lead by Stephen Dion, a man that cant speak english properly, a man that was apart of the most corrupt politic body in canadian history, a man that named his dog KYOTO after a poorly thought out enviromental plan, and a man thats on many occations announced his total and complete disdain for the USA *our largest trading partner*) to win next election and Canada to plummet into the abyss. I honestly wouldnt be surprised if after the next election all Albertains (and possibly more) switched their vote to the seperatist party of that province. Its not that they poor sports either, but you have to be invited to the game to actual play and current electorial laws dont allow participation from anyone but Ontario and Quebec. And thats a true shame!

Wal, what you describe (to me anyways) in your previous post is not so much AI as it is TB vrs RT topic. I understand exactly what you are saying though. Take Civ 4 for example. In the turn based game I can beat the computer each and every time. But if I change the setting to RT I lose on cheiftain because a human being is limited and can not realistically multitask the game as much as the computer (assuming you have multiple fronts of course). Thats always been my complain about RT, so what if I cant point and click as fast as the next guy, my stratagy is what should matter, not my clicking speed. I am one of the worst RT players on the planet (im sure of this as I like to think and RT punishes you for thinking). But set me up in a turn based game against same opponent and I never lose. So anyways, I think you mistaking one issue for the other to be honest. I dont actually disagree with you, just dont think AI is the real issue you speaking about because if the game RT, it doesnt matter really if its AI or Real Player, he who clicks fastest wins in those games. Simple as that.