The All Things Political Topic - In politics stupidity is not a handicap

[Zoraptor]

21 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Well aware that things are not as simple as that, but on the other hand the EU is defending its jobs from Chinese auto manufacturing by imposing even worse tariffs, even though everyone apart from Porsche is in freefall.

The EU is built a bit differently from the US economically though. They've always had often quite massive tariffs and subsidies as social engineering (eg the Common Agricultural Policy which specifically targets maintaining lifestyle type things) and have the tax set up to handle that. Trump seems to think that he can tariff as a means to lower taxes and there won't be any ill effects if he does it all at once. In reality the US would probably have to go towards the EU model of subsidising stuff* and price controls at some point. It would be quite funny watching the Rs try and defend commie practices like price controls at least.

The car issues are also rather more complicated than just China. It's a double whammy of China controlling most of the rare earths trade for electric vehicles while the EU wants to switch to them wholesale, certainly, and the massive increase in energy costs from the embargo against Russia. You can certainly make a moral stand that the average VW/ Fiat/ Renault worker should not be paying the price for something they cannot control and which is a consequence of a decision made by their leaders and that the failure of an entire sector would be worse economically than subsidies and worse geo/politically too.

*not that the US doesn't already, but it's mostly corporate welfare and results in things like high fructose corn syrup going into every product under the sun. Which is not the case for the Euros; always amuses me that the cheapest blue cheese here in New Zealand is Danish. There's light and day between the agricultural efficiency of the two countries- in NZ's favour- but the Euro subsidy is so high that you can still buy Danublu 150g at $4 while the NZ version is $5. Same for Bulgarian Feta vs NZ Feta. Also kind of funny that the Bulgars call it Feta when the EU has that as a Greek monopoly.

Edited Sunday at 09:10 PM by Zoraptor

[Sarex]

The car issue is simple enough. They don't have their hand on the pulse anymore. The cheap stuff, other companies are building cheaper and with more options, and the expensive stuff is not good enough to get anyone exited. Porsche is the only one who is doing well, but the luxury market is never going to drive the economy. The big money was always in the "cheap"/mass market car segment.

edit: Also as far as car manufacturing the EU and US function the same, if you build the cars in the EU they will not be subjected to tariffs, a lot of the Japanese and Korean brands have factories across the EU and manufacture the cars they sell there. Also something like 90% of the components also need to be manufactured in the EU for the rule to apply.

Edited Sunday at 09:53 PM by Sarex

[Pidesco]

What has been going on in DC this weekend :

 

Quote

CW Daily

IT'S A COUP--Trump Moves to Completely Take Over Government
February 2, 2025
By Connie Willis

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news, but Trump is moving so fast to dismantle the federal government and the rule of law that it may all be over by Monday morning, so I have to report it today:

First, during the campaign, Trump assured us he had no intention of seeking retribution on his political enemies. Now he has:

--fired everybody who worked on the January 6 investigation.

--fired everybody who worked for Jack Smith.

--fired all the top officials at the FBI.

--fired every prosecutor who worked on any investigation into Trump.

--instituted a mass purging of professional law enforcement--dozens and dozens of agents.

--dropped charges against Republican Representatives Jeff Fortenberry and Andy Ogles. ("In a dictatorship there will be those who the law binds but does not protect and those who the law protects but does not bind.")

--Trump dismissed all 51 agents who said Hunter’s laptop was tampered with and contained Russian disinformation.

--Trump then signed an order preventing them all from entering federal buildings.

--88 FBI agents who worked on Trump cases were physically escorted out of Washington field offices this weekend.

--At least three different FBI senior officials, including Brian Driscoll, the acting FBI head, "forcefully resisted" the firings.

--Many government workers are surprised by the lengths Trump is going to to exact revenge. According to Mark Bergman, "the most common refrain I’m hearing from people who left but are still talking to people on the inside is: ‘I knew it was going to be bad, but I didn’t think it was going to be this bad.’ There’s certainly shellshock."

--There is now talk that Trump intends to fire 6000 people of the 13,750 employed by the FBI. And that those who aren’t will be told that they can only stay if they will carry out the orders of the President regardless of whether they’re lawful or not.

--"Dismissing potentially hundreds of FBI agents would severely weaken the Bureau’s ability to protect the country from national security and criminal threats and will ultimately risk setting up the bureau and its new leadership for the future."

--Jamie Raskin: "In another repulsive affront to the rule of law and our nation’s law enforcement officers, the Trump Administration today moved to fire scores of FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors simply for enforcing the law and impartially carrying out the largest criminal investigation in American history which they had been assigned to work on. On Day One, the unpopular President Trump pardoned the members of violent militias and street gangs who beat police officers to a pulp with pipes, flagpoles, and broken furniture when they attacked the Capitol on January 6, 2021 to overturn the Presidential election Trump had lost by more than 7 million votes, 306-232 in the elector college. Today, shockingly but not surprisingly, Trump takes aim at the career FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors who investigated and prosecuted the violent insurrectionary assault on our police officers to block the peaceful transfer of power, as well as those FBI agents who were assigned to investigate Trump’s efforts to illegally retain classified records at his Mar-a-Lago club, defy judicial subpoenas, obstruct justice, conceal evidence, and lie to law enforcement...Trump doesn’t care about the requirements of democracy, national security, and public safety. His agenda is vengeance and retribution. If allowed to proceed, Trump’s purge of our federal law enforcement workforce will expose America to authoritarianism and dictatorship."

The other horror story is the scariest one yet. Trump has handed Elon Musk the car keys to our entire government:

--While Trump spent the weekend at Mar-a-lago golfing, Elon Musk and his cronies demanded (and forcibly took) access to all the federal employee data systems at the Office of Personnel Management.

--According to Reuters, "Elon Musk’s team has hijacked massive datasets of government worker dates of birth, home addresses, Social Security numbers, length of service, performance evaluations, revoking access of the OPM officials."

--The guy in charge, David Lebryk, the Acting Head of the Department, tried to fight them, then quit (or was removed) over their demand for access and his refusal. Update: According to the New York Times, he resisted, then was put on leave by Trump and then forced to resign Friday. (It’s a coup, people.)

--Senator Ron Wyden: "NEW: Sources tell my office that Treasury Secretary Bessent has granted DOGE ‘full’ access to this system. Social Security and Medicare benefits, grants, payments to government contractors, including those that compete directly with Musk’s own companies. All of it."

--Musk aides locked federal employees out of the system, which contains the personal data of millions of federal employees, including dates of birth, Social Security numbers, appraisals, home addresses, pay grades, and length of service of government workers.

--Senior career employees have had their access revoked to the department’s data systems.

--Musk’s team moved in, installed sofa beds, and is working around the clock to do whatever it is they’re doing. Nobody knows what that is because there is no oversight. One official said, "We have no visibility into what they are doing with the computer and data systems. That is creating great concern. There is no oversight. It creates real cybersecurity and hacking implications."

--According to the New York Times, Musk and his people have been caught plugging in external hard drives inside the OPM, Treasury Department, and GSA. They attached the hard drives to the systems, giving them access to all that data and making it possible to take all that data with them. It also gives them the ability to erase data, redirect funds, and steal data.

--Not only that, but they’ve got access to all the files that handle the sending out of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid payments ($6 trillion dollars worth.) Is this not only a power grab, but a money grab, and they’re going to magically "vanish" everybody’s Social Security payments?

--The Washington Post’s Sally Jenkins: "This man is in regular secret contact with Vladimir Putin. Get his grasping mitts off the U.S. Treasury and NOW."

--This data also includes all the information about government contractors that compete directly with Musk’s companies.

--At the same time they have been holding meetings with various departments to discuss codes and projects with people who have no official access to any of this.

--All of the people Musk has got working there are his hand-picked buddies from his own businesses, including one twenty-year-old and one eighteen-year-old.

--In the meantime, OPM has sent out memos encouraging civil servants to consider buyout offers to quit and take "a dream vacation."

--And then yesterday (note that this is all happening on a weekend when it’s harder to get to the courts to stop it) the brand new Treasury Secretary granted Musk and his thugs full access to all the data. New York Times: "Treasury Secretary gave representatives of DOGE full access to OPM. It gives the Trump administration another mechanism to attempt to unilaterally restrict disbursement of money approved for specific purposes by Congress."

--"Representatives for the Treasury Department, DOGE, and the White House did not immediately respond to requests for comment."

--Adam Cohen: "If Elon Musk and his unsanctioned team of techno-thieves and pirates are interfering with any payments designated by Congress, that’s a flat-out crime."

-- As David Burback said, "This sounds like a bad movie. It’s so hard to believe but does seem to actually, possibly be happening that the core of U.S. government private information on U.S. citizens and businesses and confidential government operations is being carted off by unvetted, malevolent, possibly foreign actors."

--News Eye: "The world’s richest man has been given full access to the federal treasury, which controls trillions in payments and holds sensitive personal data on millions. This is happening. This is a state coup."
And now today:

--As we find out more, it just gets worse and worse. Josh Marshall at Talking Points memo says the people accessing the databases are refusing to ID themselves except by first name. They seem to be Peter Thiel and Elon Musk proteges, but it’s not even clear they’re U.S. citizens.

--Musk not only locked regular employees out of the databases and computer systems but out of their own offices.

--They could have messed with the systems functioning OR erased data OR redirected funds OR otherwise mucked these systems up, through ignorance, incompetence, or malice.

--Daily Kos: "Musk’s people tried to steal data or whatever their business was, clandestinely? Why? There are laws and regulations about protecting personal privacy. Most likely explanation, they were acting illegally and they knew it."

--According to the New York Times; "Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent gave representatives of the so-called Department of Government Efficiency full access to the federal payment system late Friday...handing Elon Musk and the team he is leading a powerful tool to monitor and potentially limit government spending."

--Musk is issuing stop payments on his own initiative. (He has NO authority to do that and no government authority of any kind.)

--Elon Musk now has absolute control over his own contracts and those of people who would dare to compete with his products.

--Senator Ron Wyden: "These payment systems simply cannot fail and any politically motivated meddling in them risks severe damage to our country and the economy."

--Josh Marshall also says the Musk takeover is considerably worse than is being reported by the press.

--They are reviewing the U.S. federal budget and deciding which parts aren’t necessary, and will unilaterally cut those funds.

--According to the New York Times, they have begun demanding access to data and systems at other federal agencies.

--"The United States is now run by a ketamine addicted dictator from South Africa."

--Bowie Maroney: "Musk is raping and pillaging our government agencies."

--swmmckay: "This form of coup was not on my radar. I hope the nation survives long enough for Nuremburg-style trials."

--Trump just fired the Director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. (So people won’t have any recourse to get their money back?)

--Katie Mack: "If they were doing this to a single bank they would be immediately arrested but the Treasury of the entire United states doesn’t even have a guard at the door?"

--And we are finding out what they intend to do with all that data. Mike Flynn--WTF? MIKE FLYNN IS IN ON THIS?--just tweeted that Musk is shutting down the entire Lutheran Services chain of senior living facilities in North Dakota, calling them nothing but money laundering. (They’re going to defund nursing homes and throw old people out on the streets to save money. Of course they are. And they’re going to decide. Even though that’s totally illegal--only Congress can decide what funding goes to. And none of these people have any government authority. And once again, WHAT THE HELL IS MIKE FLYNN DOING INVOLVED WITH ALL THIS?)

--And surprise, surprise, now there are issues with the Social Security website. People are unable to access their own accounts. And all the communications networks of the OMB are suddenly offline.

--Elon Musk, meanwhile, is tweeting that he is cutting $4 billion a day. (How? By slashing programs and sending the money directly to his own bank accounts?)

--This is also a major national security threat.

--THIS IS A COUP! There is no other way to look at it. Musk has taken control of the entire U.S. Treasury payment system. He has no authority to do any of this. He is not an elected official, his "department" doesn’t exist, and what he is doing is blatantly illegal. And terrifying. This is just as much a forcible takeover of the government as the January 6th attempt on the Capitol. And this time there are no Capitol police to stop them.

--Daily Kos: "Last week they tried to freeze all payments and lost bigly in the courts, so now they decided to just seal all the money. Billionaires are now in control of the government. We no longer have a democracy as of now."

--Kara Swisher called it "Hostile takeover of the federal government by a private citizen of unlimited means with no restrictions and no transparency."

--Ruth Ben-Ghiat: "This is a national emergency."
What you can do:
--Contact the Treasury Department directly and demand that Secretary Scott Bessent immediately revoke Musk’s access to these systems. Phone number: 202-622-2000.
--Trudy Gonzales: "If you ae worried your Social Security, Medicare, or VA disability check won’t be coming out due to Elon Musk’s access to Treasury department systems, CALL CONGRESS 1-202-224-3121 ASAP."

(Note: All this carnage, isn’t even counting the trade war Trump started yesterday by slapping tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and China, which I’ll report on tomorrow. If we still have a country left by then.)

Best line of the day, from Tea Pain: "Name one thing Trump has done since elected that Vladimir Putin wouldn’t approve of."

 

[Elerond]

EU car issue is that countries decided to stop subsidizing buying new cars, because it was seen as supporting rich people and when you combine it with increasing energy prices especially in Germany, it create situation where European car makers were producing expensive cars that people didn't have money to buy which was already problem them and then Chinese manufactures started to increase their imports thanks to subsidies that they receive from their government. So EU was in hard place where they had with their actions caused their car manufactures be in bad competitive situation and they can't even give subsidies because they are currently unpopular, so tariffs were only way to ensure that Chinese producers can't take much of market when European manufactures adjust, as most of them already have cheaper electric cars in their pipelines, but for most they are coming out 2026 or 2027.

So in EU case tariffs were specific to answer in specific problem.

In US case tariffs are general, which effect is harder to predict, but they most likely will not help US that much as their manufactures supply lines rarely are just in US and as Mexico, Canada and China are not just their biggest trading partners but main suppliers for many products that US manufactures use, tariffs will most likely cause need to increase prices of products produced in US also, not only imported products. And as US workforce is expensive and tariffs aren't universal, companies will move their manufacturing facilities in countries that aren't targeted by tariffs. Chinese companies have in past moved their production in countries like Vietnam when Chinese products are targeted with tariffs. And some companies do virtual moves to US, like Mercedes that circled US tariffs by having facility in US where they shipped cars manufactured in Germany in parts and they had single robot line that put them together in US and claimed that they were build in US. 

 

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

I mean if you guys actually thought the US somehow cares for you apart from caring about what benefits they can get from you, then you brought this upon yourself. They stole tech from their allies, they spy on their allies, they coerce their allies to join wars. From the outside looking in to us it always seemed like the US allies are just vassals, the treatment you would get only depends on the power you hold.

I won't pretend to know why he did it or if it was even a good idea, but I guess we will find out how it plays out.

Yeah for sure we've tied ourselves to the Americans too much, but I guess on some level alliances should matter somewhat.  Also the fact is, I'm not really sure Canada is really harming the US in any way.  They send their drugs and guns to us, we send them some drugs and illegals back, but hardly a crisis issue.

As the WSJ said, this is the dumbest trade war - https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-tariffs-25-percent-mexico-canada-trade-economy-84476fb2

[Zoraptor]

54 minutes ago, Sarex said:

The car issue is simple enough. They don't have their hand on the pulse anymore. The cheap stuff, other companies are building cheaper and with more options, and the expensive stuff is not good enough to get anyone exited. Porsche is the only one who is doing well, but the luxury market is never going to drive the economy. The big money was always in the "cheap"/mass market car segment.

I'm not sure that's a new thing though. While the energy price increase and switch to electrics is.

At least outside of Europe Euro cars do not have and haven't had a good reputation for value for decades*; you tend to buy them to show off that you have the money to buy them and keep them running and that's a limited market. They've a perception that they've largely kept sales volume up by- frankly- making cars that fall apart after five years and have very low resale value, so you might as well just buy a new one. As opposed to Toyota that makes cars that never fall apart but may stop working, eventually, so have excellent resale value (and hence, relatively low 1st hand sales compared to how many are in the active vehicle fleet). Euro car manufacturing had always been the subject of significant trade protection as well which 'artificially' 'distort' the market. In places where there aren't protectionary measures they've never had great popularity (all Euro cars combined make up ~10% of total sales here; Toyota has almost 8x the sales of world #2 VW. Somewhat distorted by distance and Japan being closer, but then you have the Euro cheese counter examples).

*ever? I do seem to remember 80s Mercs have a rep for being indestructible, but also unreliable monstrosities like the Austin Maxi my parents had.

[Sarex]

21 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

I'm not sure that's a new thing though. While the energy price increase and switch to electrics is.

It's not, they've been on the decline for a fair bit now. Mercedes had a sharp decline with the electrification movement and now with the move to the hybrid 4 cylinder, they are basically selling SUVs and even there they are not in the top 5. I think the only popular model they have atm is the G class.

BMW is having an identity crisis where they have started leaning more in to luxury and comfort than performance and while that is a major contributor to their sales their enthusiasts are cooling off of the brand, thus making it less popular. Kind of like Bioware, they chase the the sales numbers and in the process lose their identity.

VW is just not cheap enough or good enough anymore and Audi is basically just a bit of a more premium VW, so it's kind of being dragged down with it.

33 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

At least outside of Europe Euro cars do not have and haven't had a good reputation for value for decades*; you tend to buy them to show off that you have the money to buy them and keep them running and that's a limited market. They've a perception that they've largely kept sales volume up by- frankly- making cars that fall apart after five years and have very low resale value, so you might as well just buy a new one. As opposed to Toyota that makes cars that never fall apart but may stop working, eventually, so have excellent resale value (and hence, relatively low 1st hand sales compared to how many are in the active vehicle fleet). Euro car manufacturing had always been the subject of significant trade protection as well which 'artificially' 'distort' the market. In places where there aren't protectionary measures they've never had great popularity (all Euro cars combined make up ~10% of total sales here; Toyota has almost 8x the sales of world #2 VW. Somewhat distorted by distance and Japan being closer, but then you have the Euro cheese counter examples).

Both BMW and Mercedes had a big enough following for foreign cars in the US. It's not fair to compare them with Toyota as they are not in the same class, a better comparison would be Lexus, Acura, Infinity and there they were competitive because they either offered better performance (BMW) or better luxury (Mercedes).

Also from what I understand Mercedes was (is?) very popular in China. It was the biggest market they had, I think even outstripping Europe. (Similar with BMW, the whole reason they started doing those ridiculous grills was because of the Chinese)

39 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

*ever? I do seem to remember 80s Mercs have a rep for being indestructible, but also unreliable monstrosities like the Austin Maxi my parents had.

You remember correctly, they overengenired the crap out of them and hence there were a lot of parts that could break, also Americans notoriously don't service their cars.

43 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Yeah for sure we've tied ourselves to the Americans too much, but I guess on some level alliances should matter somewhat.  Also the fact is, I'm not really sure Canada is really harming the US in any way.  They send their drugs and guns to us, we send them some drugs and illegals back, but hardly a crisis issue.

As the WSJ said, this is the dumbest trade war - https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-tariffs-25-percent-mexico-canada-trade-economy-84476fb2

I mean you were just unfortunate in this situation in that you share a border with US.

[Azdeus]

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

You remember correctly, they overengenired the crap out of them and hence there were a lot of parts that could break, also Americans notoriously don't service their cars.

It's not just that they're overengineered, they were often made out of cast iron instead of aluminium, and since production tech wasn't as good they had greater tolerances. Add in that lubricants has become much better during their lifetime ontop of that and you're there.

My engine is at 470k kms and was built in 1998, and has been well taken care of, and the bores are pretty much immaculate in that thing, and it's a B230 designed in 1974 with an improvement made in 1985 for better lubrication.

[Lexx]

12 hours ago, Pidesco said:

What has been going on in DC this weekend :

 

 

Can someone tell me that this is all hyperbole and not really happening like that, and everything will be fine?

[Malcador]

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/trump-cut-off-all-future-funding-south-africa-2025-02-02/

Undoubtedly Miller pitched this to him as White Genocide.

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/trump-cut-off-all-future-funding-south-africa-2025-02-02/

Undoubtedly Miller pitched this to him as White Genocide.

No nothing to do with that, this is about an unnecessary expropriation bill the ANC signed recently and Trump is making certain incorrect assumptions about this bill

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg9w4n6gp5o

" The new law allows for expropriation without compensation only in circumstances where it is "just and equitable and in the public interest" to do so.

This includes if the property is not being used and there's no intention to either develop or make money from it or when it poses a risk to people.

The president's spokesperson Vincent Magwenya said that, under the law, the state "may not expropriate property arbitrarily or for a purpose other than... in the public interest".

"Expropriation may not be exercised unless the expropriating authority has without success attempted to reach an agreement with the owner," he added.  "

Its not so much about the failed Zimbabwe land grabs but there are risks because what does " in the public interests " really mean and does this apply to farm land and title deeds?

But the bill does allow the state to expropriate land without compensation and thats where the domestic criticism come from 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malcador]

5 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

No nothing to do with that, this is about an unnecessary expropriation bill the ANC signed recently and Trump is making certain incorrect assumptions about this

So exactly as I was implying.

Edited yesterday at 02:26 PM by Malcador

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Malcador said:

So exactly as I was implying.

Where Trump is wrong is where he assumes the bill has been acted  on and land has been seized without compensation

But its not a  case of "nothing to see "  because the legislation now exists  

So  we will have to wait and see how its implemented 

As I  have often said the quickest way to destroy our economic trajectory is to  start nationalizing and expropriating assets without compensation 

And this is something that several  ' socialist "  and radical left parties like  the EFF and MK believe should happen immediately but they only represent 23% in parliament 

 

 

[Pidesco]

6 hours ago, Lexx said:

Can someone tell me that this is all hyperbole and not really happening like that, and everything will be fine?

It's exactly what is happening and it is barely being reported.

[Malcador]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/02/03/trump-tariffs-mexico-canada-china-sheinbaum-responds.html

As expected, they reached a deal which doesn't seem to be that much of a change, but gives the US a decisive victory or something.  Guess Canada may get the same later today.

Strange to punch then want to talk, but oh well.

[Lexx]

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Strange to punch then want to talk, but oh well.

Is it? Sounds to me like what gangsters do, at least in the movies.

[Bartimaeus]

55 minutes ago, Malcador said:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/02/03/trump-tariffs-mexico-canada-china-sheinbaum-responds.html

As expected, they reached a deal which doesn't seem to be that much of a change, but gives the US a decisive victory or something.  Guess Canada may get the same later today.

Strange to punch then want to talk, but oh well.

I think people's memories are short, since I feel like that's been one of his favorite tactics since pretty much day one of his first term. He'll threaten the cudgel on one issue while demanding action on another that's essentially unrelated to the first: when he's made something happen as a result, he can then declare it as a major win, even when we're now in a worse position than when we started. Like a king, he makes the decisions that everyone else has to visibly react to in real time, and it doesn't really seem to matter whether the decisions are good or bad, just that he's the one making them and driving the resulting situations.

In truth, as a U.S. citizen, I am generally far less concerned about his constant bluster directed at foreign affairs than I am at the total perversion of our institutions and further societal polarization and destabilization. The former will be very annoying for everyone, just as it was last time (and I don't discount that there may well be some major dominoes to fall at some point throughout the rest of the world as a result), but there are...certain realities to the limits of what he can do on the world stage, and I tend to think that things will eventually normalize to "well, he's only going to be around until 2028, we'll try to put up with and just get through it for now and re-evaluate the U.S. as a partner/ally after that depending on what follows". It's in domestic affairs where Trump's power is virtually unchecked, and unfortunately, all I can say is that...well, we voted for it. It's also our domestic affairs that the rest of the world is going to have to monitor closely in the coming years to see whether or not a return to sanity will even be possible, never mind probable. So keep your eyes peeled as Elon Musk dismantles our institutions brick by brick while Trump directs the remaining federal agencies still standing to act as agents of chaos throughout the states that he doesn't like.

Edited 22 hours ago by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

Is it? Sounds to me like what gangsters do, at least in the movies.

Good point, is SOP for the US.

 

[Hurlshort]

This Elon Musk stuff is so weird. I wonder if he will be as good in court as Teflon Don.

[Malcador]

And Canada evaded tariffs,  huzzah. By essentially doing what they were already doing, except creating a fentanyl czar (US likes these czars).

Although our premier cancelled a Starlink contract, who knows if that'll cost us. 

****ing Americans.

Edited 17 hours ago by Malcador

[Elerond]

12 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

This Elon Musk stuff is so weird. I wonder if he will be as good in court as Teflon Don.

one would think he and his team gets presidential pardon for all crimes they may have committed. And in future all presidents will have their task forces that can do anything regardless what law says and no one can charged because everyone gets blank pardon against all possible crimes they could be accused of committing. 

In other news tariffs for Canada were canceled as they promised to implement their border plan that they already had decided to do in December, so victory for Trump????

[Zoraptor]

50 minutes ago, Elerond said:

one would think he and his team gets presidential pardon for all crimes they may have committed.

Seems likely. Whether people will remember that Biden did exactly the same thing when Trump inevitably does it...

Don't think Trump or Biden need to pardon themselves any more though, at least for official duty type stuff.

(Very, very much late Roman Republic vibes. Everyone loved the Republic and were only acting to preserve it right down to, well, G. Iulius Caesar Octavianus. Nobody seemed to understand that them breaking the rules meant that the other side would too and that you were instead systematically demolishing the moral authority everything was built on)

[Hurlshort]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

one would think he and his team gets presidential pardon for all crimes they may have committed. And in future all presidents will have their task forces that can do anything regardless what law says and no one can charged because everyone gets blank pardon against all possible crimes they could be accused of committing. 

 

I'm no legal expert, but I'm guessing the pardon won't protect against all the lawsuits that will be filed by all the people his made up agency is targeting. There will be plenty of judges and lawyers happy to go after him civilly. Which considering how fragile his ego is, might create some tragically comic moments.

[uuuhhii]

usa treasury given directly to oligarch

amazing how fast things can deteriorate

[Malcador]

 

This dude's qualifications for this job are interesting