Ukraine Conflict - "The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."

[Mamoulian War]

Looks like Russia has started to completely remove all traces of Wagner

 

[pmp10]

13 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

But; people do desperately want it to be a missile because that's definitive on both counts ie that would make it deliberate and done by Russia. And there's been an awful lot of experts working back from the conclusion they want rather than working from the evidence over the course of this war over multiple different issues and with multiple examples of experts ignoring or not knowing stuff they really ought to. You thus end up with two conclusions; either they're not experts but 'experts' or they're being deliberately dishonest. The first explanation seems more... charitable.

Or more likely they were rushing the story out the door with little verification.
The initial witness impression were that this was a missile strike, plus wrong video was doing the rounds on social media.

Not that I disagree on modern 'experts' tailoring findings to expectations.

[Mamoulian War]

 

[Mamoulian War]

And more drama from Bolshoy Teatr

 

[Malcador]

On 8/25/2023 at 8:39 AM, Mamoulian War said:

Looks like Russia has started to completely remove all traces of Wagner

 

Apparently Ukraine are making headway in the south, today/tonight

[Mamoulian War]

Little bit of insight, why “it takes so long” in the South. The Bradley’s are invaluable at saving UA lives.

 

[kanisatha]

7 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Little bit of insight, why “it takes so long” in the South. The Bradley’s are invaluable at saving UA lives.

The fact that the Russians have significantly increased shelling of the Kar'kiv area and other towns in the northeast says to me the Ukrainians are making good headway towards cutting off Russia's Crimea landbridge. Clearly the Russians are trying to ease the Ukrainian pressure in the south by trying to get the Ukrainians to divert some of their forces to the northeast by threatening re-invasion there.

[Gorth]

Continued from previous thread...

 

 

Russian Ministry of Special Military Operations warns employees to stay away from windows, mines and line of fire

 

[xzar_monty]

@Mamoulian War: There's a fair bit of hoo-hah in Finland about why that war criminal was let into the country in the first place. Very justifiable questions, in my view.

[Mamoulian War]

2 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

@Mamoulian War: There's a fair bit of hoo-hah in Finland about why that war criminal was let into the country in the first place. Very justifiable questions, in my view.

At least it has one positive income that he slip into your country. He can be hopefully extradited to Ukraine to face the court for his crimes against humanity.

[xzar_monty]

58 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

At least it has one positive income that he slip into your country. He can be hopefully extradited to Ukraine to face the court for his crimes against humanity.

Agreed, on that point.

What looks especially bad on the home front is that the new right-wing government is extremely keen to make entry as difficult as possible to quite a few people, especially "different" people, but then someone like this person was given permit just like that.

[BruceVC]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/28/in-13-weeks-ukraine-has-lost-just-five-of-its-71-leopard-2-tanks/?sh=9e1c1ca185b1

Interesting link, only 5 Leopards have actually been destroyed. If you read most of the Russian and Vatnik propaganda they will tell you hundreds have been annihilated 

 

[Malcador]

20 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/28/in-13-weeks-ukraine-has-lost-just-five-of-its-71-leopard-2-tanks/?sh=9e1c1ca185b1

Interesting link, only 5 Leopards have actually been destroyed. If you read most of the Russian and Vatnik propaganda they will tell you hundreds have been annihilated 

 

Why are you reading propaganda though? 

I think both sides are being careful with their tanks, for Ukraine they have to be mindful of the Ka-52s. Most footage I am seeing is IFVs getting wasted.  One depressing one was a Ukrainian BMP that ended up face to face with a T90, got blown to hell.

 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Why are you reading propaganda though? 

I think both sides are being careful with their tanks, for Ukraine they have to be mindful of the Ka-52s. Most footage I am seeing is IFVs getting wasted.  One depressing one was a Ukrainian BMP that ended up face to face with a T90, got blown to hell.

 

Oh Im not specifically but I sometimes read the Vatniks comments on Codex and they post videos and " evidence " of Leopards being destroyed

And there is  lots of Russian memes and fake news about the reality how many Leopards have been destroyed 

[Malcador]

Such is war "reporting", both sides do it.  Could also be something as simple some random people on social media getting amplified by media.  That article puffs up the L2 a bit too much though (the Abrams wank at the end is also great), it does have an ammo cookoff risk - Turks had a couple blow their turrets off famously as well, just to indicate possibility.

[Zoraptor]

David Axe is awful, and probably less reliable than either MoD in the war. Which may seem impossible, but he tries so very very hard. His previous article on the Leopards used methodology that would have the mythic Polish Repair Yards giving Einstein conniptions by managing to create new Leopards from thin air*. I have a slight suspicion he may be doing the exact same thing again...

(My personal favourite, a storm shadow strike "may have destroyed a hundred or more [russian armoured] vehicles". For reference, a 65kg S300 warhead managed, well, one tractor, in Poland and the warhead on the SS is not much larger at 100kg. There's being hopeful, and then there's David Axe. In case it has to be said: sites.Forbes is blogging, not journalism anyway)

*same Leopard damaged twice and repaired twice --> 'both' re-added to active count. So if you had 80 you would end up with 81 and the Polish Repair Yard has broken conservation of energy laws.

[Mamoulian War]

More info on Leopard destruction in UA. Despite some losses, not a single soldier who was in destroyed leopard has died so far.

 

[Lexx]

Sounds like the tanks are working as intended. Crew survived and can fight another day.

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

Such is war "reporting", both sides do it.  Could also be something as simple some random people on social media getting amplified by media.  That article puffs up the L2 a bit too much though (the Abrams wank at the end is also great), it does have an ammo cookoff risk - Turks had a couple blow their turrets off famously as well, just to indicate possibility.

There's also at least one picture of a deturreted Leopard from Ukraine, and if it's deturreted the ammo has 100% gone up. On the positive side, was definitely disabled first and exploded later.

The classic from Syria:

yep, more bijis than a playlist at a 70s disco. The tank explosion is fairly classic too I guess.

[Malcador]

Ukrainian drones very active tonight. A lot less bull**** than the Kursk strike over the weekend that supposedly took out 6 aircraft and a radar, as there's footage of air defense active.

[xzar_monty]

According to our papers at least, last night saw possibly the largest amount of drone strikes in Russia so far.

Edited August 30, 2023 by xzar_monty

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Malcador said:

Ukrainian drones very active tonight. A lot less bull**** than the Kursk strike over the weekend that supposedly took out 6 aircraft and a radar, as there's footage of air defense active.

I was watching an interesting interview on CNN with Christina Amanpour, she is in Kiev at the moment, and one of Zelensky's former  military advisors, Andriy Zagorodnyuk,  and she asked him a whole lot of standard questions and  the reality of drones came into the debate

And he was saying the usage of drones is going to change warfare irrevocably or at least add another new permanent  element and armies have to be agile and have to " modernize " there strategies in this type of war. He used several examples of there effectiveness and made a comparison how a single drone can destroy a tank worth millions or damage a ship 

So drones are definitely a tool of future warfare at least for those countries that have the resources to use them

 

[Elerond]

13 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

 

yep, more bijis than a playlist at a 70s disco. The tank explosion is fairly classic too I guess.

That video is bit bad evidence of anything as it does not actually show that tank was destroyed in the end as it cuts just before smoke clears and picture is so blurry that you can't identify the tank model from the video.

But Turkey's Leopard 2A4 have outdated anti tank protection, because Germany refused to upgrade them because Turkey used them against Kurdish forces and in they original deal Turkey promised not to use them against Kurdish people. Which was one of major reason why ISIS were able to destroy and capture 8-10  of them.

[Zoraptor]

The timing is wrong for that. Turkey lost their Leos against ISIS in 2016, they attacked the Kurds in January 2018 and Germany refused to upgrade them in January 2018 also. Once they'd been upgraded they wouldn't have been 2a4s any more; they'd have been 2a7s. A 2a4 supplied to Ukraine is not significantly different from those Turkey is/ was running, if they were they would have a different model number (2a4M, 2a4r for the Finnish supplied minerollers etc).

Turkey admitted that tank was destroyed- not much way to deny it- along with 5 crew dead, in Sheikh Haruz.

[Mamoulian War]

Girkin anounced his presidential candidacy