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Ukraine Conflict - The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his


Malcador

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5 hours ago, Gorth said:

Try having Germany/Prussia or Sweden as your border pals (Denmark used to have a land border with Sweden). The sad reality of European history, it hasn't changed (much) how things have been done the past 2000 years.

Prussia doesn't exist anymore, Sweden and Germany got civilized (though you'll probably disagree as is expected per Europe's traditions 😛), while that Xzar's and mine neighbour still is homicidal, imperialistic, entitled, delusional and dangerous madman. 

 

P.S.: I imagine perspective is quite different from the safety of Sheep'n'Hobbit land. 

Edited by bugarup
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33 minutes ago, bugarup said:

Prussia doesn't exist anymore, Sweden and Germany got civilized (though you'll probably disagree as is expected per Europe's traditions 😛), while that Xzar's and mine neighbour still is homicidal, imperialistic, entitled, delusional and dangerous madman. 

 

P.S.: I imagine perspective is quite different from the safety of Sheep'n'Hobbit land. 

And NATO is a peace loving saint? Please...

Australia and NZ fear China.

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

Try having Germany/Prussia or Sweden as your border pals (Denmark used to have a land border with Sweden). The sad reality of European history, it hasn't changed (much) how things have been done the past 2000 years.

Try having Croatia, Bulgaria and Albania as you border pals. Turkey? The middle east and Africa don't even have the US on their border and they are ****ed. Israel? China? How do Mexico, Cuba and South America feel regarding having the US so close.

"because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP

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12 minutes ago, Sarex said:

  And NATO is a peace loving saint? Please...

 

Binary extremities aside, it's not NATO that is right now flattening neighbouring country's cities, bombing civilians, abducting kids and trumpeting that genocide against Ukrainians is a good and even neccesarry thing via their propaganda channels. 

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5 hours ago, Gorth said:

Try having Germany/Prussia or Sweden as your border pals (Denmark used to have a land border with Sweden). The sad reality of European history, it hasn't changed (much) how things have been done the past 2000 years.

I raise you Finland with Russia AND Sweden as its border pals. 😛

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5 hours ago, Gorth said:

Try having Germany/Prussia or Sweden as your border pals (Denmark used to have a land border with Sweden). The sad reality of European history, it hasn't changed (much) how things have been done the past 2000 years.

Thats nothing, try having the Vikings as your neighbours...the Vikings !!!

Gorthfuscious you may not believe this but Piers Morgan and other commentators have also raised reparations  due to the terrible carnage  inflicted on the Saxons by your ancestors 

Watch this video from 9:40 onwards ...its happening I tell you. Our shared objective is gaining momentum :dancing: 

 

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25 minutes ago, bugarup said:

Binary extremities aside, it's not NATO that is right now flattening neighbouring country's cities, bombing civilians, abducting kids and trumpeting that genocide against Ukrainians is a good and even neccesarry thing via their propaganda channels. 

Mmm, I think you are just not hearing about it over the Ukraine noise. They are still very much active in their usual stomping grounds, directly and indirectly. I'm sure that once the Ukrainian issue resolves itself one way or another the news will start picking up other topics. It does them no good to dilute the public attention when it's already teetering as it is right now.

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"because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP

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3 hours ago, Sarex said:

  Australia and NZ fear China.

Australia sure*, but we get on pretty well with the Chinese. They'd never bother invading when our politicians would happily sell the place to them wholesale in the name of 'investment'.

*well, not absolutely sure. They do have a notable predilection for sucking up shamelessly to the US in a manner that would make even Tony Blair embarrassed so it may well be that as main motivator rather than actual fear. One of the reasons we get on with China a lot better than Australia does is that so long as we have our anti nuclear policy we'll never be seen as a US stooge- same most definitely can't be said for our trans Tasman cousins.

Edited by Zoraptor
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24 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Australia sure*, but we get on pretty well with the Chinese. They'd never bother invading when our politicians would happily sell the place to them wholesale in the name of 'investment'.

Speaking of which, Eleanor Catton's new book Birnam Wood contains plenty of rather interesting commentary on NZ politics / politicians. (Recommended!) But then, Finnish politicians aren't exactly superb, either, when it comes to selling mining rights to our northern regions.

While reading Catton, I had to check whether NZ had actually abolished and then reinstated knighthoods and damehoods in the 2000s. And yes, apparently it has. Either I had completely forgotten about or it had received minimal media attention here.

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Knighthoods were abolished under Helen Clarke's Labour government and reinstated by John Key's National government a few years later- he's the politician Eleanor Catton had a very public spat with a few years ago. We kept the replacement Order of New Zealand as well because you can't have enough things to award to ex politicians, business leaders and judges (plus Sir Edmund Hillary when he was alive).

Perhaps unsurprisingly John Key is now Sir John Key. AKA Sir Xian Qi after having his house bought for twice its market value by a Chinese government affiliated individual...

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12 hours ago, Gorth said:

Try having Germany/Prussia or Sweden as your border pals (Denmark used to have a land border with Sweden). The sad reality of European history, it hasn't changed (much) how things have been done the past 2000 years.

Europe's peaceful for some time (well other than the Yugoslavian wars that everyone seems to forget right now). Probably having failed states on your border like 90s Somalia or Afghanistan or ones in a civil war (CAR's is still going huh) would be much worse.

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Europe's peaceful for some time (well other than the Yugoslavian wars that everyone seems to forget right now). Probably having failed states on your border like 90s Somalia or Afghanistan or ones in a civil war (CAR's is still going huh) would be much worse.

 

Europe has not been peaceful for 8000 years, even then it was probably because people had to travel several years in order to bash their neighbors heads.

1900s- there were two world wars, but it was conflict full century

Quote
  • 1903 Ilinden–Preobrazhenie Uprising
  • 1904–1908 Macedonian Struggle
  • 1904–1905 Russo-Japanese War
  • 1905 Łódź insurrection
  • 1905 Revolution of 1905
  • 1906–1908 Theriso revolt
  • 1907 1907 Romanian Peasants' Revolt
  • 1910 Albanian Revolt of 1910
  • 1910 5 October 1910 revolution
  • 1911 Albanian Revolt of 1911
  • 1911–1912 Italo-Turkish War
  • 1912 Albanian Revolt of 1912
  • 1912–1913 Balkan Wars
    • 1912–1913 First Balkan War
    • 1913 Tikveš Uprising
    • 1913 Second Balkan War
  • 1913 Ohrid–Debar Uprising
  • 1914 Peasant Revolt in Albania
  • 1914–1918 World War I - 19,174,335 deaths
    • 1914 Caucasus Campaign
    • 1916 Noemvriana
    • 1917 Toplica Uprising
    • 1918 Judenburg mutiny
    • 1918 Cattaro Mutiny
    • 1918 Aster Revolution
    • 1918 Radomir Rebellion
    • 1918 Finnish Civil War
  • 1916 Easter Rising
  • 1917 Russian Revolution
    • 1917 February Revolution
    • 1917 July Days
    • 1917 Polubotkivtsi uprising
    • 1917 Kornilov affair
    • 1917 October Revolution
      • 1917 Junker mutiny
    • 1917 Kerensky–Krasnov uprising
  • 1917–1921 Russian Civil War
    • 1917–1918 Red Army invasion of Georgia
    • 1917–1921 Ukrainian War of Independence
      • 1917–1921 Ukrainian–Soviet War
      • 1918–1919 Polish–Ukrainian War
    • 1918–1924 Left-wing uprisings against the Bolsheviks
    • 1918 Left SR uprising
    • 1921 Kronstadt rebellion
    • 1918–1922 Heimosodat
      • 1918 Viena expedition
      • 1918 Aunus expedition
      • 1918–1920 Petsamo expeditions
      • 1918–1920 National revolt of Ingrian Finns
    • 1921–1922 East Karelian Uprising
    • 1918–1920 Estonian War of Independence
    • 1918–1925 Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War
      • 1918–1920 North Russia Intervention
      • 1918–1922 Siberian Intervention
    • 1918 Georgian–Armenian War
    • 1918–1920 Georgian–Ossetian conflict (1918–20)
    • 1918–1919 Georgian-Russian conflict over Sochi
    • 1918–1920 Armenian–Azerbaijani War
    • 1918–1920 Latvian War of Independence
    • 1918–1920 Lithuanian Wars of Independence
      • 1918–1919 Lithuanian–Soviet War
      • 1919 Lithuanian War of Independence (War against the Bermontians)
      • 1920 Polish–Lithuanian War
    • 1919–1921 Polish–Soviet War
    • 1921 Georgian–Russian War
    • 1924 Georgian Uprising against Soviet Union
  • 1919–1920 Revolutions and interventions in Hungary (1918–20)
    • 1918–1919 Hungarian–Romanian War
    • 1918–1919 Hungarian–Czechoslovak War
  • 1919 Sejny Uprising
  • 1919 Khotyn Uprising
  • 1918–1919 Austro-Slovene conflict in Carinthia
  • 1918–1958 Polish–Czechoslovak border conflicts
    • 1919 Polish-Czech war for Teschen Silesia
  • 1918–1919 German Revolution
  • 1918–1919 Greater Poland Uprising
  • 1919–1922 Greco-Turkish War
  • 1918–1921 Franco-Turkish War
  • 1920 Armenian-Turkish War
  • 1919 Christmas Uprising
  • 1919–1920 Unrest in Split
  • 1919–1921 Silesian Uprisings
    • 1919 First Silesian Uprising
    • 1920 Second Silesian Uprising
    • 1921 Third Silesian Uprising
  • 1919–1922 Irish War of Independence
  • 1920 Husino rebellion
  • 1920 Vlora War
  • 1920 Kapp Putsch
  • 1920 Ruhr Uprising
  • 1920 Slutsk Defence Action
  • 1920–1924 Biennio Rosso
  • 1921 Uprising in West Hungary
  • 1921 February Uprising
  • 1921 Charles IV of Hungary's attempts to retake the throne
  • 1922–1923 Irish Civil War
  • 1923 Corfu incident
  • 1923 September Uprising
  • 1923 Klaipėda Revolt
  • 1923 Leonardopoulos–Gargalidis coup d'état attempt
  • 1924 1924 Estonian coup d'état attempt
  • 1924 August Uprising
  • 1925 Incident at Petrich
  • 1932 Mäntsälä rebellion
  • 1933 Casas Viejas incident
  • 1933 Anarchist uprising in Spain (1933)
  • 1934 Asturian miners' strike of 1934
  • 1934 Austrian Civil War
  • 1935 1935 Greek coup d'état attempt
  • 1936–1939 Spanish Civil War
  • 1938 1938 Greek coup d'état attempt
  • 1939 German occupation of Czechoslovakia
  • 1939 Hungarian invasion of Carpatho-Ukraine
  • 1939 Italian invasion of Albania
  • 1939–1965 Spanish Maquis
  • 1939-1940 S-Plan
  • 1939–1945 World War II
    • 1939 Nazi German invasion of Poland
    • 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland
    • 1939–1940 Winter War(Soviet invasion of Finland)
    • 1940 Phoney War
    • 1940 Operation Weserübung
    • 1940 Norwegian campaign
    • 1940 Invasion of Luxembourg
    • 1940 Battle of the Netherlands
    • 1940 Battle of Belgium
    • 1940 Battle of France
    • 1940 Italian invasion of France
    • 1940 Soviet invasion of the Baltic States
    • 1940 Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina
    • 1940 Battle of Britain
    • 1940–1941 Greco-Italian War
    • 1941–1945 Soviet–German War
    • 1941–1945 Yugoslav anti-fascist resistance movement
    • 1941–1944 Continuation War
    • 1941 Uprising in Montenegro
    • 1942 Case Blue
    • 1942-1944 Northern Campaign
    • 1942–1956 Ukrainian Insurgent Army
    • 1943 Italian Campaign
    • 1944 Operation Market Garden
    • 1944 Warsaw Uprising
    • 1944 Western Allied invasion of Germany
    • 1944-1945 Lapland War
    • 1944-1945 Slovak National Uprising
    • 1944-1945 Liberation of France
    • 1944-1945 Battle of the Bulge
    • 1945 Second Battle of the Alps
    • 1945 Battle of Berlin
  • 1944–1956 Guerrilla war in the Baltic states
  • 1945–1949 Greek Civil War
  • 1946–1948 Corfu Channel incident
  • 1947–1962 Romanian anti-communist resistance movement
  • 1953 Uprising in East Germany
  • 1955-1959 Cyprus Emergency
  • 1956 Uprising in Poznań
  • 1956 Hungarian Revolution
  • 1956–1962 Operation Harvest
  • 1958 First Cod War
  • 1959–2011 Basque conflict
  • 1967 Greek coup d'état
  • 1968 Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia
  • 1968–1998 The Troubles
  • 1970–1984 Unrest in Italy
  • 1972–1973 Second Cod War
  • 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
  • 1974 Carnation Revolution
  • 1975 Coup of 25 November 1975
  • 1975–1976 Third Cod War
  • 1976–2016 Corsican conflict
  • 1981 Spanish coup d'état attempt
  • 1986 Evros River incident
  • 1988-1994 First Nagorno-Karabakh War
  • 1989 Romanian Revolution
  • 1990–1991 Soviet attacks on Lithuanian border posts
  • 1990 Transnistria conflict
    • 1990–1992 Transnistria War
  • 1991 January Events
  • 1991 The Barricades
  • 1990 Log Revolution
  • 1991–2001 Yugoslav Wars
    • 1991 Ten-Day War
    • 1991–1995 Croatian War of Independence
    • 1992–1995 Bosnian War
      • 1992–1994 Croat–Bosniak War
    • 1998–1999 Kosovo War
    • 1999–2001 Insurgency in the Preševo Valley
    • 2001 2001 insurgency in Macedonia
    • 1991–1992 Georgian war against Russo-Ossetian alliance
  • 1991–1993 Georgian Civil War
  • 1992 East Prigorodny Conflict
  • 1992–1993 War in Abkhazia
  • 1993 1993 Cherbourg incident
  • 1993 1993 Russian constitutional crisis
  • 1995–1996 Imia/Kardak military crisis
  • 1997–1998 Cyprus Missile Crisis
  • 1997 Albanian civil war of 1997
  • 1997–present Dissident Irish Republican campaign
  • 1998 Six-Day War of Abkhazia

As we can see not many conflict free years there 

List does not have Conflicts involving European states that happened outside of European continent

And current century is not any better

Quote
  • 2001 Georgia, Kodori crisis
  • 2001 Insurgency in the Republic of Macedonia
  • 2004–2013 Unrest in Kosovo
    • 2004 2004 unrest in Kosovo
    • 2008 2008 unrest in Kosovo
    • 2011–2013 North Kosovo crisis
  • 2004 Georgia, Adjara crisis
  • 2004 Georgia, South Ossetia clashes
  • 2006 Georgia, Kodori crisis
  • 2008 Russo-Georgian war
  • 2014–present Russo-Ukrainian War (outline)
    • 2014 Pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine
    • 2014–present Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation
    • 2014–present Russo-Ukrainian War
    • 2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis
    • 2022–present Russian invasion of Ukraine
  • 2020 Second Nagorno-Karabakh war

 

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/31/macron-to-call-for-european-strategic-awakening-after-ukraine-invasion

Macron setting himself up to be bashed more.

He insisted that Russia had lost all legitimacy, but said if the coming Ukraine offensive did not meet its military objectives there would have to be an assessment of the nature of future European support for Ukraine. At the same time he insisted that Ukraine was defending not just its own borders, but those of Europe.

He also called for continuity in US policy towards Ukraine, but said the EU by strengthening its own defences had to prepare for the possibility that a Republican administration might be elected.

 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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36 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Europe has not been peaceful for 8000 years, even then it was probably because people had to travel several years in order to bash their neighbors heads.

1900s- there were two world wars, but it was conflict full century

As we can see not many conflict free years there 

List does not have Conflicts involving European states that happened outside of European continent

And current century is not any better

 

Current century is most definitely better in comparison, given that all of those conflicts are in a relatively small area, outside of the Ukrainian war. You also have a remarkable amount of cohesion (or maybe a better word would be reliance) economically and politically in comparison to the previous century.  

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2 hours ago, Elerond said:

Europe has not been peaceful for 8000 years, even then it was probably because people had to travel several years in order to bash their neighbors heads.

1900s- there were two world wars, but it was conflict full century

As we can see not many conflict free years there 

List does not have Conflicts involving European states that happened outside of European continent

And current century is not any better

 

Well, some time not being millennia, since WW2 it's been fairly calm. Did forget about the Caucasus region though.  But in terms of neighbours, I don't think you have to worry about the Fourth Reich rising or a neo-Napoleon, at least for the next couple of decades.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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17 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Knighthoods were abolished under Helen Clarke's Labour government and reinstated by John Key's National government a few years later- he's the politician Eleanor Catton had a very public spat with a few years ago. We kept the replacement Order of New Zealand as well because you can't have enough things to award to ex politicians, business leaders and judges (plus Sir Edmund Hillary when he was alive).

Perhaps unsurprisingly John Key is now Sir John Key. AKA Sir Xian Qi after having his house bought for twice its market value by a Chinese government affiliated individual...

John Key is referenced but not named in the novel, and the spat is (obviously) not mentioned at all. I think Catton is very tactful throughout, and the whole knighthood thing comes across as tasteless and unintentionally funny, which I think it is, not being totally acquainted with all the details.

Edited by xzar_monty
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20 hours ago, Malcador said:

Well, some time not being millennia, since WW2 it's been fairly calm. Did forget about the Caucasus region though.  But in terms of neighbours, I don't think you have to worry about the Fourth Reich rising or a neo-Napoleon, at least for the next couple of decades.

Unfortunatelly, many of us have someone, who claims to be the second comming of Peter the Great in the neighbourgood 🤷‍♂️

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A typical Russian way of dealing with different oppinion. To kill everyone, until there is no one left willing to oppose them. This time, they are proposing to kill everyone living outside Russia, who supports Ukraine, untill the support of Ukraine ceases 🤷‍♂️

 

 

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5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

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Maybe fall, then the Gods of War will easily defeat Russia and then Democracy and Liberty will be safe.

 

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, pmp10 said:

NATO summit in July is slowly closing.
Zelensky threatens to boycott it if Ukraine is not given an 'accession signal'.

I wonder what would satisfy Ukraine as major players (US included) oppose membership roadmap at this point.
The expectation was that the offensive would change things but as things stand, it may not even start before then. 

I think currently it would be enough for Ukraine that NATO officially recognizes their application and invitation to participate in MAP (Membership Action Plan)

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There is very interesting situation unfolding in Bilhorod People’s Republic. For the third day, the Russian insurgent are attacking the conglomeration around Shebekino town. Which is approximately as big as Bakhmut. In three days, they completely made chaos there, with Russian power forces such as police and Rosgvardia being non-functional and the local thugs took advantage of the situation and started big looting spree of shops and households. The outcome of this impotence of Russian defense is, that they started to shell their own towns to be able to show at least some progress of chasing out the insurgents to their supervisors 🤦‍♂️

 

edit: oh, and there was a cyberattack on some local radios in Bilhorod. They started to publicly broadcast around the region, that today will be the referendum about the independence of Bilhorod People’s Republic 😁

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1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

23) Fairy Fencer F - PS3 - 215+ hours

24) Megadimension Neptunia VII - PS4 - 160 hours

25) Super Neptunia RPG - PS4 - 44+ hours

26) Journey - PS3 - 22+ hours

27) Final Fantasy XV - PS4 - 263+ hours (including all DLCs)

28) Tales of Arise - PS4 - 111+ hours

29) Dark Souls: Remastered - PS4 - 121+ hours

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