The All Things Political Topic - Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you

[Zoraptor]

Well akshually...

Portugal traded nearly twice as many slaves as England, and about half the total. Which is not surprising since Portugal had the most colonies in Africa until well into the 19th century.

[xzar_monty]

9 hours ago, Lexx said:

I always lol about this. As if america has a radical left. Red scare is so omnipresent that people forgot what actually left is.

The "radical left" is one of those things that people like Jordan Peterson like to throw around with essentially no justification or veracity. It is lol indeed.

It's interesting, btw, to compare the various rights and lefts and their positions to one another. Like, the American left, such as it is, is fairly right in Scandinavian terms, etc.

[Malcador]

10 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I think its  perfectly reasonable to not teach kids they are responsible for something, that in some cases, occurred hundreds of years ago  or they are assumed to have a indirect responsibility for because of their race. 

Is that actually the case that they are ?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Is that actually the case that they are ?

No.

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Malcador said:

Is that actually the case that they are ?

Sorry I am not sure what you mean, are you asking if white kids are being told they responsible for colonialism or slavery from a historical perspective?

[Gorth]

13 hours ago, Malcador said:

Is that actually the case that they are ?

That's a question open for interpretation

Are they being taught or are they responsible

The concept of historical responsibility is a tricky one. Should you hold a nation accountable of atrocities? If so, for how long? Does it have an expiry date, so if you avoid being held accountable, you (the country) goes free? I know artwork, stolen from European Jews by the Nazi's is still being recovered and handed back to the descendants of the previous Jewish owners. Is that right to do so? If so, is then wrong to point out, that a lot of the benefits of your current life came at the expense of exploitation of another ethnic group?

Even if you as an individual did no wrong, your privilege and another persons misery may be a result of past injustice that never got corrected.

Is the idea of correcting old wrongs right or wrong? Is it all about the timing? Or should justice be enacted only when it's convenient for society's purposes?

 

No, I don't have the answers. Doesn't mean I don't scratch my head at times and think about it (without ever getting closer to an answer)

 

 

[Sarex]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

That's a question open for interpretation

Are they being taught or are they responsible

The concept of historical responsibility is a tricky one. Should you hold a nation accountable of atrocities? If so, for how long? Does it have an expiry date, so if you avoid being held accountable, you (the country) goes free? I know artwork, stolen from European Jews by the Nazi's is still being recovered and handed back to the descendants of the previous Jewish owners. Is that right to do so? If so, is then wrong to point out, that a lot of the benefits of your current life came at the expense of exploitation of another ethnic group?

Even if you as an individual did no wrong, your privilege and another persons misery may be a result of past injustice that never got corrected.

Is the idea of correcting old wrongs right or wrong? Is it all about the timing? Or should justice be enacted only when it's convenient for society's purposes?

 

No, I don't have the answers. Doesn't mean I don't scratch my head at times and think about it (without ever getting closer to an answer)

What does it even mean being responsible. They are going to say they are sorry and never do it again? Our friendly neighbors the Croats, for an example, openly celebrate their Ustase roots and everything associated with that. Albanians celebrate some of their Nazi collaborators. Germany has neo-nazis in all layers of their society, even though it's a crime to celebrate it. The elements are always there, they are just waiting for a perfect storm to come to the forefront again.

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

That's a question open for interpretation

Are they being taught or are they responsible

The concept of historical responsibility is a tricky one. Should you hold a nation accountable of atrocities? If so, for how long? Does it have an expiry date, so if you avoid being held accountable, you (the country) goes free? I know artwork, stolen from European Jews by the Nazi's is still being recovered and handed back to the descendants of the previous Jewish owners. Is that right to do so? If so, is then wrong to point out, that a lot of the benefits of your current life came at the expense of exploitation of another ethnic group?

Even if you as an individual did no wrong, your privilege and another persons misery may be a result of past injustice that never got corrected.

Is the idea of correcting old wrongs right or wrong? Is it all about the timing? Or should justice be enacted only when it's convenient for society's purposes?

 

No, I don't have the answers. Doesn't mean I don't scratch my head at times and think about it (without ever getting closer to an answer)

 

 

The moment you agree to historical redress caused by things like slavery and occupation let me know because your ancestors, the Vikings, committed the most terrible crimes against the English and they enslaved people...I watched a documentary on this and I still suffer from sleepless nights...its created real trauma in my life but you can help me by accepting responsibility for your ancestors crimes and carnage and then we can work out a monthly payment directly into my account. Think of your privlidege created by your ancestors 

Edited February 6, 2023 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Sorry I am not sure what you mean, are you asking if white kids are being told they responsible for colonialism or slavery from a historical perspective?

Well, I quoted the parts of your post.

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

That's a question open for interpretation

Well, there are two outcomes there. One can always infer that saying your country did something bad long ago reflects badly on you, but I think you'd be silly to do so. 

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Vikings

Hahaha, oh Bruce... Viking is a name for a profession, like pirates... What you were thinking of are the Scandinavians and no Scandinavians and Slavs are not the same in case you were wondering...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

What does it even mean being responsible. They are going to say they are sorry and never do it again? Our friendly neighbors the Croats, for an example, openly celebrate their Ustase roots and everything associated with that. Albanians celebrate some of their Nazi collaborators. Germany has neo-nazis in all layers of their society, even though it's a crime to celebrate it. The elements are always there, they are just waiting for a perfect storm to come to the forefront again.

I remember how until 2015 Germany refused to call the Herero and Namaqua genocide a genocide because it predated the codification of genocide under international law. I guess it's nice they took "responsibility" over a century later but that initial instinct to dodge the charges says quite a bit.

[Gfted1]

 Ill just quote myself from 6 years ago. 

[Sarex]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/north-korean-balloon-briefly-spotted-over-south-korea-seoul-says-2023-02-06/

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 minutes ago, Sarex said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/north-korean-balloon-briefly-spotted-over-south-korea-seoul-says-2023-02-06/

The Balloon Wars have begun.

[Gfted1]

U-2 Spy Planes Snooped On Chinese Surveillance Balloon | The Drive

[ComradeYellow]

Funny how that works, US announces plans to build more naval bases in the Philippines, Chinese breach Apple Pie airspace with balloons.  US is going to have to get used to counter moves from a peer rival methinks.  Like Pepsi and Coke, except with countries. 

Also, did they really have to shoot it down?  If US tech so world class you'd think they'd be able to neutralize it intact and study it rather than dig for debris to study.

[Gorth]

Not just a tiny balloon to force down…. 200feet tall and carrying equipment the size and mass of an airliner  

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64548140

 

Edit rather than double post: Just a personal suspicion, since it was fully operational and could navigate and move under its own power, i suspect the CCP wanted to try two things at once. Test the US response to the intrusion (to see how far they can push the envelope) and as an added bonus, take some nice, slo-mo shots of US military installations in the northwestern part of the country (as they are going to be first responders to an invasion of Taiwan)

 

I'm sure Kim in North Korea, suddenly feeling inspired, is drooling over pictures like these (having wet dreams about giant balloons, approaching a US cities, potentially loaded with "dirty bombs")

 

[ComradeYellow]

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3209316/north-koreas-kim-jong-un-orders-military-prepare-war-more-strictly-expand-combat-drills?module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage

Unlike V.Put, KJU actually has a sizeable military at his fingertips (Russia is now, after repeated setbacks in Ukraine, finally starting militarize all of Russian society).  The problem is that North Korea lags woefully behind South Korea in technology and infrastructure, so in the event of an invasion NK may be forced to go nuclear if things go south (No pun intended).  SK, like Ukraine, would be mostly reliant on US support and Intel to keep the fight up, as SK is not a military society like NK.  NK could also count on Russian aid for whatever that is worth.  China can still afford to remain neutral until the dragon is ready to awaken, in perhaps a few years.

Japan, meanwhile, appears to be seeking more strategic independence, because unlike Ukraine and South Korea, Japan is under no illusions that US public opinion can change on a whim with any next election so they want to be ready for anything.  Kudos to Japan for being smart.

Edited February 7, 2023 by ComradeYellow

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

Funny how that works, US announces plans to build more naval bases in the Philippines, Chinese breach Apple Pie airspace with balloons.  US is going to have to get used to counter moves from a peer rival methinks.  Like Pepsi and Coke, except with countries. 

Also, did they really have to shoot it down?  If US tech so world class you'd think they'd be able to neutralize it intact and study it rather than dig for debris to study.

Its stinking Commie subversive technology, it must be destroyed immediately. You must watch a movie called Red Dawn. ( the original )..this is how it starts. First balloons then invasion !!!

[Malcador]

And in the new Russian offensive

 

[Gfted1]

10 hours ago, Gorth said:

Just a personal suspicion, since it was fully operational and could navigate and move under its own power, i suspect the CCP wanted to try two things at once. Test the US response to the intrusion (to see how far they can push the envelope) and as an added bonus, take some nice, slo-mo shots of US military installations in the northwestern part of the country (as they are going to be first responders to an invasion of Taiwan)

I feel confident that China's reconnaissance satellites have the resolution to watch me type this post. If theyre using balloons as their primary then theyve already lost the next two wars.  But I cant think of any reason why they would use this method. We will never find out but I would love to know what the U2 snooped. Bet they werent expecting that!

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

I feel confident that China's reconnaissance satellites have the resolution to watch me type this post. If theyre using balloons as their primary then theyve already lost the next two wars.  But I cant think of any reason why they would use this method. We will never find out but I would love to know what the U2 snooped. Bet they werent expecting that!

Yes thats the thing, satellites would provide more  accurate surveillance than a balloon. But its still concerning and this balloon isnt the only one floating around 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/photos-appear-to-show-second-chinese-balloon-passing-over-latin-america/ar-AA176oGH

 

[Gromnir]

10 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I feel confident that China's reconnaissance satellites have the resolution to watch me type this post. If theyre using balloons as their primary then theyve already lost the next two wars.  But I cant think of any reason why they would use this method. We will never find out but I would love to know what the U2 snooped. Bet they werent expecting that!

am not knowing but am suspecting near all chinese satellites is known quantities and US and allies is aware to the second when they will be passing over ___________ or ___________.  the chinese balloons obvious move slower, but is also gonna be more difficult to predict days, weeks and months ahead when and exact where such is gonna be in part 'cause weather baffles even the best soopercomputer models.

in any event, am not a spy, and am talking out our kiester on this, but am thinking is unfortunate the balloons 'caused such a public stir 'cause if it were Gromnir in charge, we would much rather use the opportunity presented by balloons to transmit disinformation as is no doubt the case with satellites, electronic communications and human intelligence. find a mole in your organization and does the sooper spies immediate remove or do they consider ways to use the mole against whoever planted the mole? dunno. again, am not a spy, but knowing 'bout an intelligence gathering resource o' the bad guys seems like an opportunity. as long as the chinese thought they were getting one over on the US with balloons, the US could manipulate the intel the balloons were collecting, yes? 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Chairchucker]

Just scrolled through and for a moment was wondering what Bono and co. had to do with this all.

[Sarex]

To make things even more funny, he was part of the Kosovo office.