The All Things Political Topic - Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation

[Gromnir]

am admitted baffled by the cannon ruling.

...

gonna repeat how this does not require a lawyer to spot the stoopid. seriously, just consider what the judge is suggesting. the 100 or so documents clear marked classified, secret and top secret requires a special master to determine if they is in fact the property o' the former President o' the United States and should be returned to trump's possession.

wut?

for crying out loud, the doj had offered picture evidence to the public so as to disabuse persons o' the notion it is possible to confuse rando trump papers with what is so painful obvious the property o' the United States of America. even if trump had declassified the documents in question, they would remain GOVERNMENT documents and should be returned to the national archives and/or relevant security facilities. 

the suggestion by the judge that the presidential records act or attorney client privilege need be considered by a special master in his deliberations to answer the undecided factual and legal questions o' whether the pictured documents need be returned to trump is beyond the pale and complete illogical. for chrissakes, judge cannon unwitting undermines her own ruling and simultaneous creates a pointless delay by recognizing that trump's attorneys need be achieving the proper clearance to even view the documents in question, clearance which the trump lawyers don't current have, nor did they have when they somehow imbued the marked documents with attorney-client privileges. note how judge cannon did not leave such a requirement up to the special master. clearly judge cannon did not need a special master's input to recognize the security classification markings on the documents pictured, eh?  

the ruling by judge cannon has us channeling andy dufresne.

once again, so is clear, under no circumstances does the clear marked classified, secret and top secret documents go back to trump's possession, 'cause those documents, regardless o' whether or not trump declassified, is so obvious and irrefutable the property o' the United States of America and not the former potus.  there is no relevant legal or factual question a special master needs consider in the current scenario.

...

am thinking is obvious the doj appeals and requests an emergency stay, and am seeing no way the 11th circuit (fed covering georgia, alabama and florida) fails to grant doj request, unless is some serious funny business going on behind the scenes am not privy to. is always possible for a single district judge to be horribly wrong or possibly just so chicken sh!te they will befoul themselves in an effort to avoid personal responsibility, but if the appellate court were to agree with cannon we would need consider the possibility o' a successful infiltration o' pod people, or a commander remmick situation from trek. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

[Gorth]

How wrong does a judge have to be, before getting removed from the job?

Edit: For me, the judge referenced here would be an obvious candidate. Like someone completely out of their league or nurturing ambitions of a life in politics after the courtroom....

[Lexx]

I don't even know what to say about that. Could probably just copy&paste my old posts about the path that America is heading towards.

Chances are still pretty good that Trump will be just fine, I guess.

[Gorth]

Continuation from old thread:

 

[Chairchucker]

Bro. I literally just posted a reply into the void of the old thread. This is pretty upsetting.

 

Wait I got it back with CTRL Z

19 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Really?So the truth doesnt matter and we judge people on what we perceive  and assume .... I am not convinced, its sounds very SJWish to me 

'The truth doesn't matter?' To steal a quote from a movie I don't remember the name of, 'you've asked that question in the form of a lie.' (It was that law movie with Sacha Baron Cohen and some other guys)

Yes, we absolutely judge people on our perceptions of them based on what they say and do, rather than what they tell us about themselves. If anyone ever asks 'who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?' the answer is, 100% of the time, 'my lying eyes'. If what someone says about themself does not line up with what I observe about them, I go with what I observe about them, every single time.

SJWish? I mean frankly, it's a stupid insult and it's been my observation that people who use SJW as a pejorative are statistically unlikely to have anything I consider worthwhile to say. But in this specific instance, it just doesn't make sense: I'm just saying that the evidence of people's words and actions will always be more telli9ng than the claims they make about themselves.

 

Regarding the actual point of contention, let's look at racism. Now, I don't know that I would necessarily say that you are racist. What I WOULD say, is that when you consistently deny that racism is a problem, when your reaction to people producing studies that have shown systemic racism is active in the USA is to handwave it and say 'agree to disagree' or say 'but whatabout these other countries which are surely more racist', and not be at all willing to engage with the evidence that racism is a problem and commit to being a part of a solution, you are a part of the problem. To steal another quote I can't remember the origin of, 'if you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.' If people call out racism and your reaction is to pejoratively call them 'woke' or 'SJW', you may not be racist, but the distinction is not significant enough to matter.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Chairchucker

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Generally speaking, I tend to judge people on what they do first, what they say second, and what they call themselves a distant third. Since I have not met any of yall irl and probably never will (barring the anime thread forming a posse to battle the undead Queen Elizabeth in Egypt), the first is not applicable so the second takes precedence.

If someone who consistently excuses blatant authoritarianism in order to crush protestors against power they like (striking workers, "BLM/AUNT TIFA, etc.) while being offended about even the thought of consequences for other groups (like the MAGA putsch folks or bankers) then you just have to put two and two together and get a good feeling of what there politics actually are. Maybe such a person wouldn't call themselves a fascist, put when there politics lines up with them to such a degree, you can't someone to thinking there's something their.

[Malcador]

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123109768/migrants-sent-to-marthas-vineyard

Wonder what the blue states can send in return. 

[Hurlshort]

9 minutes ago, Malcador said:

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123109768/migrants-sent-to-marthas-vineyard

Wonder what the blue states can send in return. 

[Gromnir]

23 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

gonna do our thing where we respond serious to silly, 'cause is almost never just a joke. payback desantis and abbott is not constructive, but the current state o' politics has left and right looking at ways to make them pay or suffer for wrongs done or imagined. waste. 

what blue states should be sending is what they already is sending: tech jobs. places such as texas becoming more reactionary is in part 'cause o' the justified fear o' the gop that their control o' the state is evaporating and may soon be irretrievably gone. what happened to california in the past is happening increasing to texas, georgia and other southern states today with agriculture and/or fossil fuels giving way to tech and service industry interests. southern state gop is, much as were the case during the civil rights era, fighting tooth and nail to increase voter suppression efforts, but while such vile practices may indeed be successful short term, and will likely have the blessing o' the current Court, texas and georgia got no plan for dealing with an influx o' young and educated persons. *snort* if f'ing millennials and younger people would actual vote, texas would already be blue.

gop is indulging in theatrics 'cause they don't have an agenda. the gop allowed trump to set an ultimately self-defeating course as there ain't no way to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US and the wall on the southern border would achieve little save line the pockets o' a handful o' construction firms while cheesing off ranchers and undermining water projects. 

'course is not all good news. the tech jobs heading south has coincided with more than a few blue states becoming more red as disaffected whites who has seen their working class jobs disappear or become less lucrative is needing to blame somebody and while trump couldn't offer real solutions he did channel fear, anger, and stoopid in ways other national republicans had previous found distasteful. 

wanna criticize desantis and abbott? fine. criticism is deserved, but libs lamenting the current situation is cowardly and indulges the same refusal to face realities as is endemic in the new gop. trump announced muslim ban and he were blaming immigrants and libs for every ill white working class voters suffered BEFORE he became President. nevertheless, democrats didn't bother to vote in 2016 and so we ended up with trump and four years o' government sponsored radicalization o' the right. meanwhile, democrats continue to indulge tyson furyesque punch-self-in-face infighting and spend big money to get ultra maga candidates onto republican ballots... and then pretend shock and dismay at the increasing intolerance o' republicans. 

regardless, short answer as to what blue states may be sending in return is obvious if less likely to energize the young democrats who don't vote but instead rage on internet message boards and twitter: tech jobs.

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123109768/migrants-sent-to-marthas-vineyard

Wonder what the blue states can send in return. 

Human trafficking lawsuits.

2 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

The nazis are moving there on their own in order to take over the local governments, I think Idaho is notable for this.

[Gfted1]

Better than being in any part of Texas.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Better than being in any part of Texas.

Idaho is pretty much the worst parts of Texas but 15 degrees colder.

[Gfted1]

Yeah, I should have quoted the article. I know he was being an a-hole, but I feel like he did them a favor by sending them to MA versus staying in TX. They probably dont even have immigration facilities in MA, so put them up in hotels?

[Hurlshort]

Oh, they are definitely better off in Martha's Vineyard. It's reprehensible that families were promised help and opportunities and then loaded up on a plane to be used as a political stunt, but it sounds like they are already getting amazing support from the community. You would think that would make the stunt look bad, but I have no doubt they will just spin it as a win. "Look at these dumb libs helping people in need! They'll probably give them jobs and educate the children." 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

14 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Yeah, I should have quoted the article. I know he was being an a-hole, but I feel like he did them a favor by sending them to MA versus staying in TX. They probably dont even have immigration facilities in MA, so put them up in hotels?

Well when he realizes that he'll buy them a ticket back to be even more of an a-hole.

[Elerond]

3 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123109768/migrants-sent-to-marthas-vineyard

Wonder what the blue states can send in return. 

I wonder if DHS agents who falsified migrants records will face any consequences

[Malcador]

Of course they will, the USA is a country of laws.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

I wonder if DHS agents who falsified migrants records will face any consequences

assuming all facts is true as described, am suspecting that following an excessive and unnecessary long investigation and review, multiple dhs agents will be fired. states can't charge fed agents for criminal while agents is acting w/i scope o' their authority. am unaware o' a relevant fed criminal penalty for a fed agent in this situation but perhaps one exists (aside: am genuine unsure on this but is worth keeping in mind that not only is migrants cases civil in nature, but is unlikely that the agents in question profited or were seeking remuneration from the malfeasance described, so no bribes, fraud, human trafficking or whatnot. being a bastard fed agent is cause for termination but does not specific expose to criminal liability, as difficult as that bitter pill may be to swallow.) the migrants don't have standing to sue, 'cause the Court has taken an extreme narrow and reasonableness straining reading o' previous precedent and unless Congress makes more exceptions available, plaintiffs may only sue if is violation o' limited religious freedoms circumstances.

termination o' employment is the expected outcome but no doubt such will satisfy almost nobody. furthermore, given the likelihood the agents will be afforded full due process before formal termination, the story o' the agent terminations will quite possibly occupy footnote quality coverage in a few national papers long after most people have forgotten 'bout this incident. 'course the agents could also quit and then move to lucrative private state of florida jobs.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we could be wrong on the criminal liability o' fed agents, and am hopeful am wrong, but sans a hypothetical bribe or payment o' agents situation, we don't see any obvious basis for charges. 

pps please keep in mind that much o' the rationale for the fed agent immunity from state prosecution were due in part 'cause states tried to criminalize fbi agents for investigating and arresting kkk members. fbi gets its start following the assassination o' President mckinley by "anarchists."  as such the formation o' the fbi were yet another example o' the ordinary and expected knee jerk reaction much like the more recent patriot act. that said, much early fbi activity focused on the kkk and state sponsored kkk activities. as such, immunity from state prosecutions don't have the sinister origins many might suspect, but such immunity has been exploited time and again for less than benign purposes. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

Its amazing to see the hundreds of thousands of people who are prepared to wait up to 24 hours in a queue to see the Queens coffin and say final goodbyes. Much of UK family spent 12-14  hours to pay there tributes

I really admire this type of commitment to the  UK monarchy and its testament to the real support they have, people have travelled all the way from the US, Africa and Australia to name a few countries. And the temperature on Friday  was 7 degrees celsius (45°F).

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/queue-see-queens-coffin-closes-temporarily-after-reaching-capacity-2022-09-16/

[BruceVC]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/disturbing-scenes-as-man-dragged-to-the-ground-after-rushing-at-queens-coffin/ar-AA11VANs

Absolutely disgusting behavior, he must be prosecuted and hopefully jailed 

Edited September 17, 2022 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

 

https://nypost.com/2022/09/12/democrats-spend-53m-to-boost-far-right-gop-candidates/

This is so wrong. In certain states the Democrats have attacked moderate Republicans and paid for huge advertising so MAGA candidates win in the primaries 

So I guess Biden was wrong and the MAGA supporters arent the " threat to the core values of Democracy in the US " that he was grandstanding about. Because clearly when  it suit the Dems politically they fine

Kamala Harris refused to condemn this hypocrisy on Meet the Press, such a disappointment when people are so inconsistent with what they say they stand for. And people accuse the GOP of falseness and hyperbole 

[Gromnir]

trump has no property interest in the documents at issue in judge cannon's ruling whether they is classified or not, so a demand for the return o' such documents and a request for special master review o' such by means o' a civil 41(g) motion by trump lawyers is nonsensical. the doj makes the point we see as dispositive but that media lawyers keep glossing over in their five-minute takes on cnn and msnbc.

again, so is clear, trump is demanding that his property, which were improper seized by the feds, should be returned to him 'cause o' special harms he suffers by being deprived o' his property PRE-indictment. if bob is being investigated for illegal ivory smuggling, and during a search o' bob's property the fed's seize his personal automobiles, even though is nothing in the warrant which suggests evidence would or could be found in his car, nor any suggestion bob were using his car to transport ivory, then bob could petition by means o' a 41(g) for the return o' his car(s) particular if those vehicles is his only means o' transportation.

should be obvious the sensitive documents seized during the warrant search o' mar-a-lago is so not like the bob scenario. judge cannon don't suggest the documents were improper seized. furthermore, trump hasn't explained how the government intelligence documents is in fact his property, 'cause that would be silly. also, it takes extreme imagination to concoct a special harm trump suffers by being deprived o' US government state secrets. the fact the feds might use the documents to build a criminal case against trump is so utter not the kinda special harm a 41(g) motion seeks to cure. 

this whole exercise is mind-blowing stoopid. 

now for an eventual prosecution o' trump for action and inaction related to the espionage act or some other code violation for mishandling and obstruction related to state secrets and sensitive intelligence, the issue o' if and when trump declassified documents may be relevant, but for the current 41(g) pre indictment kerfuffle, is red herring material.

am genuine dismayed by the level o' stoopid being indulged for no reason other than the fact trump is an ex-President. 

...

am not liking to do this, but our only reasonable explanation for judge cannon's ruling is that she has future aspirations which would be undermined if she delivered a ruling unfavorable to trump. IF cannon is seeing herself as an appellate judge in the future, the only way that happens is if a future republican President offers her the job. rule against trump almost guarantees her name is not gonna be on any near-future republican Presidential short-lists for appellate, scotus, ag appointments. and yes, perhaps from cannon's pov the special master is a minor inconvenience for the doj, so no biggie. the thing is, even if cannon were correct and that the doj is overstating the intelligence concerns related to the seized documents, there is no legal justification for her ruling.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Gromnir

[Maedhros]

Living standards declining in 90% of countries: https://www.dw.com/en/un-index-shows-living-standards-declining-in-90-of-countries/a-63052023

Coronavirus/war in Ukraine/global warming cited as main reasons.

 

[Gorth]

So, we're back to 2018 living standards?

Edit: It may sound like a facetious comment, but the article didn't put any absolute numbers of the regress

[Raithe]