Ukraine Conflict - Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit

[Amentep]

5 minutes ago, Sarex said:

What was the reason for removing that?

My understanding is that BBCode is considered to be depreciated/old technology by the makers of the board software.  Most boards moved to WYSIWYG editors and HTML styling for posts, as I understand it.

[Bartimaeus]

11 minutes ago, Sarex said:

What was the reason for removing that?

The forum software updated, and the software got rid of it with the update. It happened to a pile of different places that were using Invision all at once. Well, there was a transition period where you could switch to BBCode mode for a bit, but then it was just...gone with another update.

What I do these days is always highlight a part of a person's post, like this, and it just goes wherever your cursor currently is in the box. Using the actual quote button is the path to madness: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/onlwdqqg7j7mlmd/firefox_XAYVSnPJW3.mp4

(e): Ninja-ed by Amenpoop, .

Edited April 11, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

Azov claiming that chemical weapons were used, for what that is worth.

[Zoraptor]

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

Even if they were to win, I think you will be surprised with how little actual help they will get from the west.

Come on now, Julian Lennon sang 'Imagine' and Ursula and friends pledged 11.2bn Euro; and it "sounds like even more if you convert it to dollars!"

What's that you say? They're pledges, not actual money? My goodness, how very cynical. You just have to look back to other such disasters to find that the international community always, always supplies the money that is pledged and it certainly isn't actually a load of competitive virtue signalling where the expectation is anything from half to a tenth of the pledges actually come through.

(In practical terms it probably depends a lot on how well/ long the sympathy for refugees lasts and, well, how lucrative the porkbarrelling is. It's a lot easier to spin pledges to reality when the money is actually spent on your companies etc)

Edited April 11, 2022 by Zoraptor

[213374U]

35 minutes ago, Sarex said:

What was the reason for removing that?

Invision decided that it wasn't worth it to keep BBCode up to date and compatible with newer features. It wasn't an Obs decision -- the vendor just phased the feature out.

edit: holy crap, ninja'd by half the forum

slowpoke.jpeg

Edited April 11, 2022 by 213374U

[Sarex]

17 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Come on now, Julian Lennon sang 'Imagine' and Ursula and friends pledged 11.2bn Euro; and it "sounds like even more if you convert it to dollars!"

What's that you say? They're pledges, not actual money? My goodness, how very cynical. You just have to look back to other such disasters to find that the international community always, always supplies the money that is pledged and it certainly isn't actually a load of competitive virtue signalling where the expectation is anything from half to a tenth of the pledges actually come through.

(In practical terms it probably depends a lot on how well/ long the sympathy for refugees lasts and, well, how lucrative the porkbarrelling is. It's a lot easier to spin pledges to reality when the money is actually spent on your companies etc)

It's a sad affair that will end up bad for Ukraine no matter which way this war goes. You can pretty much look to the Ukrainian refugees to see how much the EU cares.

28 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

What I do these days is always highlight a part of a person's post, like this, and it just goes wherever your cursor currently is in the box. Using the actual quote button is the path to madness: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/onlwdqqg7j7mlmd/firefox_XAYVSnPJW3.mp4

I do that too when trying to not quote the whole post, otherwise I just use the quote button.

[majestic]

13 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Invision decided that it wasn't worth it to keep BBCode up to date and compatible with newer features. It wasn't an Obs decision -- the vendor just phased the feature out.

edit: holy crap, ninja'd by half the forum

slowpoke.jpeg

Reported for spamming, because I apparently have an axe to grind.

Spoiler

 

[Gfted1]

38 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Azov claiming that chemical weapons were used, for what that is worth.

I cant imagine that Russia would be so stupid as to uncork WMD. 

[Gromnir]

*chuckle*

being hit by hurricanes should leads to a reasonable assumption local assets and infrastructure will be diminished... duh. that said, blame local failures is not complete illegitimate, especial in cases o' graft. also, pre-hurricane preparation by puerto rico had gaps and were poor overall although no worse than ordinary state/local mainland preparation for disasters. however, particular with local communications and transportation capabilities devastated by the hurricane, the ability o' puerto ricans to bootstrap themselves outta their troubles were handicapped, which is precise why fema exists... again, duh. 

both fema and bipartisan Congressional analysis suggest the fed response were profound lacking. drop off massive quantities o' bottled water to airstrips otherwise inaccessible to the local population? failure to have available and provide generators particular following the lessons o' katrina? fed level failures regarding puerto rico hurricanes is not one o' those subjects which is questioned save by a few folks with an agenda.

is worth observing a few o' the gwu recommendations woulda been useful for the entire US when covid hit and there were a sudden collective realization that death counts were far too subjective.

@Guard Dog is not a civil engineer, correct? even so, am suspecting he could at least speak to the difficulties o' undertaking the effort to rebuild roads in an area where such infrastructure were recent destroyed by significant flooding. am not pretending to be an expert in this area, so will defer to those with knowledge, but one assumes the army corps o' engineers (federal) is precise the folks who could tackle such a task. expect puerto ricans, the folks hit by successive hurricanes, to rebuild roads and communication infrastructure relative quick sounds like a bridge too far demand, but again, am genuine unsure what is required to undertake and complete such tasks. heck, am not even certain what is the appropriate prioritization o' tasks. is possible a bunch o' locals with wheel barrows, pickups and hand tools may manage the jobs? 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Gromnir

[HoonDing]

 

[ComradeYellow]

7 hours ago, Sarex said:

Even if they were to win, I think you will be surprised with how little actual help they will get from the west.

They won't win anyway, Russia's military is too strong to be defeated in detail and the average Russian doesn't give a fig about sanctions or GDP per capita, which brings us to:

4 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

I bet China is already calculating, how to turn them into their full-fledged vassals

Being a Chinese "Vassal" is a win-win, you get to retain your sovereignty and keep your policy and have any kind of leadership you want, there are no rules to be appendage to China like the Euro lemmings have towards U.S.A.*, you just get some added economic benefits via Belt and Road.

North Korea is technically a Chinese "vassal" as they are heavily dependent on China economically, yet China does not care to try to control Kim in any way shape or form.  Remember when Trump tried to get China to "Reign in" North Korea?  Yeah, didn't work out so.

*Washington "Rules" consensus can be simplified to:

A) Free Markets

B) Transparency

C) Democracy

If you break one of those rules, you will receive scolding and risk sanctions and damage by the U.S.  Break two you risk military intervention, break all three and invasion is damn near certain, provided you are a weak country and not a major power of course.

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I cant imagine that Russia would be so stupid as to uncork WMD. 

I couldn't imagine Russia would be so stupid as to actually invade Ukraine. And when, I couldn't imagine Russia would be so stupid as to try to reach Kiev through the Pripet marshes...

 

(substitute Russia with Putin)

 

Edit: Anyone who ever played a WWII wargame covering the eastern front knows the significance of those marshes... they are everything the allies thought The Ardennes was, i.e. impassable for armies, hence the long, unwieldy columns of troops and tanks

[pmp10]

7 hours ago, Malcador said:

Azov claiming that chemical weapons were used, for what that is worth.

The separatists were publicly toying with the idea at Mariupol steel plant, but (assuming it's even true) at only 3 injured this couldn't have been a serious strike.

[Mamoulian War]

7 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I cant imagine that Russia would be so stupid as to uncork WMD. 

Many of us could not imagine that Russia will be so stupid to dig trenches in Chernobyl, or that they would put 11 time in the row their war instruments on Chornobaivka airport near Kherson, just to let them be destroyed over and over and over

Anyway, you probably missed that, because I put that in one of the edits, but in Russia, there are already people who demand the use of chemical weapons in Mariupol, including their propaganda mouthpiece RIA Novosti.

 

 

Repost: Also the mouthpiece of Russian propaganda RIA Novosti is already spreading the word, how a chemical attack in Mariupol is urgently needed...

https://t.me/rian_ru/158246

Google translate:

Basurin said that it makes no sense to storm the underground fortifications of Azovstal in Mariupol, you need to "turn to the chemical troops"

"There are underground floors, so it makes no sense to take this object by storm. Because you can put a large number of your soldiers, and the enemy will not suffer losses as such"

“Therefore, at the moment it is necessary to deal with the blocking of this plant, find all the exits and entrances - in principle, this can be done."

 

 

@Sarex Allow me to apologize, if my previous post looked like, it was aimed directly at you. That was not the case. It was just my seldom clumsiness to properly express in written form what I really want to say I just wanted to given my reasons, why I am sometimes prefer to do multiple post, due to my not very good experience with Multiquote forum feature. And I fully understand that why it might be annoying to some people, so I am doing my best to minimize that, and after posting I am trying to post only after enough of other people express their own opinions as well

[Mamoulian War]

6 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

They won't win anyway, Russia's military is too strong to be defeated in detail and the average Russian doesn't give a fig about sanctions or GDP per capita, which brings us to:

Being a Chinese "Vassal" is a win-win, you get to retain your sovereignty and keep your policy and have any kind of leadership you want, there are no rules to be appendage to China like the Euro lemmings have towards U.S.A.*, you just get some added economic benefits via Belt and Road.

North Korea is technically a Chinese "vassal" as they are heavily dependent on China economically, yet China does not care to try to control Kim in any way shape or form.  Remember when Trump tried to get China to "Reign in" North Korea?  Yeah, didn't work out so.

*Washington "Rules" consensus can be simplified to:

A) Free Markets

B) Transparency

C) Democracy

If you break one of those rules, you will receive scolding and risk sanctions and damage by the U.S.  Break two you risk military intervention, break all three and invasion is damn near certain, provided you are a weak country and not a major power of course.

If you consider North Korea as a positive example of being Chinese vassal, then I really apologize, but I have to question the sanity of that statement

Edited April 12, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Lexx]

I mean, it's probably a good deal for the few people at the top of the food chain. Who really cares about anyone else?

[Katphood]

 

[Mamoulian War]

26 minutes ago, Katphood said:

 

Well to be honest, when you compare what had US done to Afghanistan compared to Soviet Union, then it's like small sting by needle compared to amputation of both legs... That does not mean, that I am condoning what they did made there...

[Lexx]

It's not as if nobody ever critizised what the USA did in the middle east. People pretend now that we were always ok with it and never said anything.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Lexx

[Zoraptor]

Generally it's the moral grandstanding about aggressive wars and the like that people don't like, especially those who have had a taste of it from those pontificating. It's one thing for, say, Bhutan to get irate about people invading other countries since they really are nice and peaceful, it's quite another when it's Boris and Joe acting holier than thou when the list of invasions by the US and Britain is fairly long. 

Then of course there's also immediate and ongoing hypocrisy rather than just historical, like the continuing- western supported- Saudi intervention in Yemen and the silence on the number of deaths caused by that (at least 135k children in just 2017-8 via blockade induced famine, according to the UN). But they're brown and the wrong religion, not in Europe, and the perpetrator buys lots of western weapons, givers lots of political donations and lots of western investment and that trumps humanitarian concerns; and such coverage in media as there is is very much of the "oh the humanity, but this is just what happens when you're uncivilised".

2 hours ago, pmp10 said:

The separatists were publicly toying with the idea at Mariupol steel plant, but (assuming it's even true) at only 3 injured this couldn't have been a serious strike.

Dropping CW from a drone is probably the least convincing detail. Russia has few enough armed drones, they can't carry much in terms of weight (up to 200kg, but that's 4x50kg) and they'd literally literally do more damage with conventional munitions than 3 injuries.

If they were going to use them it would be as described- similar to one of the warren destructions in Watership Down. Block up most exits, pump in (probably) tear gas*, and have a bunch of 'ferrets' waiting by the exits which are left open. For that you wouldn't actually use munitions at all, just pump it from a big pressure vessel(s) via hose(s). Or you could just do it the 'legal' way, and suck out/ burn all the oxygen with thermobarics or flamethrowers.

*still technically a war crime, since while tear gas isn't banned for use against civilians it is banned as cw when used against the military.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Zoraptor

[xzar_monty]

18 minutes ago, Lexx said:

It's not as if nobody ever critizised what the USA did in the middle east. People pretend now that we were always ok with it and never said anything.

I suppose it's just wisest to ignore it. You can see so much of it on these forums, too, although admittedly from only a few users whose idea appears to be that criticism of Russia automatically means wholesale acceptance of everything about "the West". But of course this is not the case at all.

Heck, perhaps some of us have been demonstrating against "the West's" actions in our own countries. Perhaps we have been doing that for a long time. Who knows. And here, by the way, is an important difference: in "the West" we can demonstrate without facing up to 15 years in jail.

[Zoraptor]

One of the more famous British volunteers has surrendered in Mariupol

He may be in for an... interesting time since it's pretty much certain he'll be treated as a mercenary/ unlawful combatant and not a POW. The good news is at least he's likely to be worth more alive than dead and publicly surrendered.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Zoraptor

[Lexx]

How big is the actual difference between being a generic POW and anything else in russia? Not a bait question, I'm genuinely curious.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Lexx

[xzar_monty]

There was a very dubious-looking "article" about how the Ukrainian invasion may have failed because the Russian intelligence embezzled all the money that was supposed to be used as bribes: http://www.thelowdownblog.com/2022/03/is-putins-invasion-failing-because.html?fbclid=IwAR0xPTO7_eAiuqThICAswXkkSMfkqHVOM0YYdwJMEerAlWkSnx4h-Vdv7ss

Now, there would have been nothing surprising about this scheme or its failure, as both were precisely the kind of thing you'd expect in and from Russia. But the article looked very, very dubious.

However, this new article from a more reputable source suggests there might be something to it: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g

But obviously this is far from proven as of now. It does look like a decent hypothesis, however. Military experts in my country have been completely unequivocal about the fact that the initial attack was idiotic, there was no way any sane strategist should have expected that to succeed. So, apparently, they must have expected something to happen within Ukraine.

Edited April 12, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Sarex]

4 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

@Sarex Allow me to apologize, if my previous post looked like, it was aimed directly at you. That was not the case. It was just my seldom clumsiness to properly express in written form what I really want to say I just wanted to given my reasons, why I am sometimes prefer to do multiple post, due to my not very good experience with Multiquote forum feature. And I fully understand that why it might be annoying to some people, so I am doing my best to minimize that, and after posting I am trying to post only after enough of other people express their own opinions as well

As I said nothing to apologize or feel bad for and thank you for making the effort.