The All Things Political Topic - Those who do not move, do not notice their chains

[Gfted1]

Ooooh, theyre SO getting cancelled on Odnoklassniki.

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

And I am interested in your view of what I am suggesting or asking

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But I am not clear  on something about how you applied for the loan, did you and your wife apply together and you shared your expenses, salary slip and other necessary paperwork with the bank?

Basically the same points you have raised are what made my BS-dar flicker. But at the end of the day I hope all US residents get their bag from the fatcats, so its win/win for @Hurlsnot. I just need to find the way in for me and mine.  We have a Wells Fargo mortgage too (almost paid off, woohoo!) but now I cant help but wonder if they hate the Italians too and Ive been getting slightly shafted this entire time?  But I think we Italians are lumped in with whitey?

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, majestic said:

Ukrainian moderate right wing extremists worthy of support, no doubt.

Dont worry about this photo, I assume you would be opposed to any extreme right views that include Nazi inspired movements which is normal

But this is not a representation of a real problem in Ukraine that will justify a Russian invasion.

Remember Russia is trying to find a " justification " for a military invasion even though I dont see any long-term benefits  for Russia in doing this so I still think its Brinkmanship 

[Hurlshort]

6 hours ago, Gromnir said:

the internet is never wrong and it tells us six figures is possible. although hurl likely needs a doctorate, +20 years experience and something else? dunno. 

in case is not clear, am not serious 'bout faith in the internet. have no idea if the linked is accurate.

HA! Good Fun! 

Public school teacher salaries are a matter of public record, so they are pretty easy to pull up. I attached a salary schedule for San Jose Unified. It looks pretty good when you get to year 30, I suppose, but the starting salary of 60k is not going to get you very far in the Bay Area. When I started close to 20 years ago, I believe it was around 45k. 

I decided to look up the Chicago teacher's salary, and they've got some pretty decent increases in there, so maybe that is why @Gfted1 is so salty towards fatcat teachers. It was like a 10-page spreadsheet though, but the 30-year teachers were making a pretty penny.  

@BruceVC Yes, my wife and I applied for our home together. Individually we were not going to qualify for a $350,000 loan on a $45k teacher's salary. I'm not sure we really should have even qualified when we combined, but we were young and dumb and did what everyone told us to do, which was to get in on property. 

Honestly it sounds pretty old fashioned to assume just the husband is signing on the loan and providing pay stubs, financials, etc. The majority of people in the US are dual income households.

2021.08.01 Teacher Salary Schedule.pdf

[Malcador]

We need to see Hurl's tax returns.

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Remember Russia is trying to find a " justification " for a military invasion even though I dont see any long-term benefits  for Russia in doing this so I still think its Brinkmanship 

The benefit for Putin is the ability to bully and threaten neighboring states to fall in line with his will. Apart from China, the Ukraine is probably the most capable neighboring state. Once it falls, the others won't dare to mount an opposition. They will be assimilated back into the empire.

[Zoraptor]

There are a couple more capable neighboring states than Ukraine. Poland. Japan. Arguably Finland and Norway too, despite having far lower population. Ukraine really isn't very capable at all.

And, well, the US. After all Sarah Palin could see Russia from her house*, and that's pretty much the definition of neighboring.

The problem for Russia is not Ukraine's capability, it's that the next round of 'Russian threats' post Ukraine accession would have purely defensive NATO troops, planes and missiles 100km from Smolensk, Belgorod and Rostov; and no natural defense lines before Moscow.

*yes, I know.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, rjshae said:

The benefit for Putin is the ability to bully and threaten neighboring states to fall in line with his will. Apart from China, the Ukraine is probably the most capable neighboring state. Once it falls, the others won't dare to mount an opposition. They will be assimilated back into the empire.

You raising an absolutely valid assessment of what Putin has been doing over the last 20  years where he has set himself the unnecessary task of trying to recreate the old USSR borders but the strategy used is generally the same in examples like Georgia and Ukraine. He targets regions that are Russian speaking and identify with being Russian citizens and then invades\annexes them  and these regions suddenly become part of "Russia "

So yes the ultimate objective is try to to recreate the USSR  borders but it has so many design problems, for example its  not much of economic union compared to the EU or old USSR so what is the reason for it apart from a disjointed geographical barrier  

Here is something that you may not be aware of but the Russian people have never experienced or lived in a true Democracy or really experienced  how free markets economics does allow economies to grow and people to have a better quality of life. This is an important point in understanding Putins reasoning with this type of geopolitical aggression 

Russia went from the decadent and corrupt Tsar Nicholas monarchy who really made terrible decisions in WW1 that cost millions of Russian lives to the system of Communism that was well meaning in certain views but  not sustainable economically. Then only in the mid 1990's did it become apparent to Gorbachev that the USSR was bankrupt which meant the Cold War was over but not due to  the political or military advancements of the West ....no it was much simpler but irrefutable. A system that becomes  bankrupt  is a failure 

So people like Putin  watched warily as the USSR dissolved and the Russian people were told truthfully that now they can  experience  Democracy and Capitalism and of course these systems are the right choices because the Cold War was over 

But a terrible and unintentional mistake was made when no Western country thought that when you implement a proper  Democracy and embrace Capitalism in any country for the first time you must allow  a transition period and create institutions  that exist in the new Democracy that monitor and allow for these systems to be correctly implemented and you must have  laws and normal regulation of the private sector and ensure that wealth creation is not abused 

But by the time Putin came to power in 2000 many Russians felt that Yeltsin and all these changes to make Russia a Democracy had only weakened the country and Putin always believed that this was intentionally done to Russia by the West for some strange reason

But the real problems that existed in Russia during Yeltsin time, like the utter greed and wealth of the Oligarchs , was not because of the West. I dont think their was enough governance and financial accountability in the new Russia to not ensure the corruption of the Oligarchs 

So  when Putin came to power in 2000 he considered Russia to be its worst possible state where things like pride of being Russian had vanished and their seemed to be a failure of leadership strength. Many prominent ex-KGB military people  supported him when he made it clear he would reverse this and from that  moment on Putin has never had an issue with ignoring  basic freedoms and rights that exist in all our countries and acting within Russia illegally to remove any threat to the  Russian state. And I support the early  actions of how Putin took economic control from the Oligarchs and he definitely restored much of Russia pride by 2007 or so 

So thats why its fairly consistent in Russia for the state to be involved in highly illegal state sponsored events like assassination of journalists or opposition party members and things  like the clamping down on any protests on a more free society 

But at least 55-60  % of Russian people support the autocratic nature of how Putin runs the country and if you ask any Russian who  supports Putin " how do you feel about the erosion  of Democracy in Russia " they will say something like " this is a better Russia than under Yeltsin, we support Putin " 

And thats how they think of Geopolitics where they will ignore international laws if its what Putin thinks suits the broader objectives of Russia 

But what other countries will want to join the new Russia alliance outside of what we already see ?

 

[BruceVC]

35 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

There are a couple more capable neighboring states than Ukraine. Poland. Japan. Arguably Finland and Norway too, despite having far lower population. Ukraine really isn't very capable at all.

And, well, the US. After all Sarah Palin could see Russia from her house*, and that's pretty much the definition of neighboring.

The problem for Russia is not Ukraine's capability, it's that the next round of 'Russian threats' post Ukraine accession would have purely defensive NATO troops, planes and missiles 100km from Smolensk, Belgorod and Rostov; and no natural defense lines before Moscow.

*yes, I know.

Are you suggesting that Russia and Putin really believe in some possible military attack on Russia from NATO  and countries like Ukraine

If this is really about military threat you dont need to be on the border of Russia to attack the country. No member of the  EU or member of NATO has any interest in attacking Russia. Where has ever come up before?

I do think NATO doesnt have the same reasons to exist that justified its existence in the Cold War but  countries after the Cold War  immediately joined  NATO because of their mistrust of Russia like the Baltic states

So NATO for me is basically the military of the  EU ....so its just about the EU and stability but it doesn't face the same threat of the Warsaw Pact 

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

Public school teacher salaries are a matter of public record, so they are pretty easy to pull up. I attached a salary schedule for San Jose Unified. It looks pretty good when you get to year 30, I suppose, but the starting salary of 60k is not going to get you very far in the Bay Area. When I started close to 20 years ago, I believe it was around 45k. 

I decided to look up the Chicago teacher's salary, and they've got some pretty decent increases in there, so maybe that is why @Gfted1 is so salty towards fatcat teachers. It was like a 10-page spreadsheet though, but the 30-year teachers were making a pretty penny.  

@BruceVC Yes, my wife and I applied for our home together. Individually we were not going to qualify for a $350,000 loan on a $45k teacher's salary. I'm not sure we really should have even qualified when we combined, but we were young and dumb and did what everyone told us to do, which was to get in on property. 

Honestly it sounds pretty old fashioned to assume just the husband is signing on the loan and providing pay stubs, financials, etc. The majority of people in the US are dual income households.

2021.08.01 Teacher Salary Schedule.pdf 101.18 kB · 4 downloads

So in ten years or so yall will be pulling six figures each? That sounds like a lot, but when you factor in the brutal housing costs of California's urban areas I guess it is much less than it looks. Then yall have two kids, so there's a bunch of expenses in there.

In Texas the minimum starting is a bit more than half of the starting from what you posted (3k lower than Oklahoma since that was brought up recently) and the minimum after 20 years is a bit less than 55k. That's all not very good, even with the lower housing costs in Texas (not for long!), making rent on 33k a year is going to be very tough.

Man, this country seems to hate teachers.

[Gromnir]

Uyghur kids recall physical and mental torment at Chinese boarding schools in Xinjiang

That same year, Chinese leader Xi Jinping personally ordered a massive security campaign to extinguish terrorist threats by targeting the entire Uyghur ethnic group.

Xinjiang quickly began constructing a sprawling network of detention camps and started expanding existing prisons. At least hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs and other historically Muslim ethnic minorities were sent to such "transformation through education" camps to study Chinese political ideology and the Chinese language, despite having no criminal record. In some of these facilities, Uyghurs also reported being mentally and physically tortured and the women sterilized. Uyghurs with a religious background or a history of international travel — people like the Kuçars — were sentenced to lengthy prison terms.

...

the seven minute listen, if you don't wanna read, is worth the time.

so, am expecting whataboutism, but perhaps just garden variety deflection will be the response.

@Hurlsnot

so our guestimate on +20 years, advanced degree, and other factors to be achieving six figures were more accurate than we expected. at 22 years is possible.  

nevertheless, we keep trying to explain how cost o' living (not limited to housing) is necessary context when comparing incomes o' those o' working in san jose or nyc as 'posed to rural tn or texas. am not quite sure how to explain different so it sinks in with a few o' the more obdurate... though admitted a good start would likely be to avoid calling folks "obdurate." 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

Uyghur kids recall physical and mental torment at Chinese boarding schools in Xinjiang

That same year, Chinese leader Xi Jinping personally ordered a massive security campaign to extinguish terrorist threats by targeting the entire Uyghur ethnic group.

Xinjiang quickly began constructing a sprawling network of detention camps and started expanding existing prisons. At least hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs and other historically Muslim ethnic minorities were sent to such "transformation through education" camps to study Chinese political ideology and the Chinese language, despite having no criminal record. In some of these facilities, Uyghurs also reported being mentally and physically tortured and the women sterilized. Uyghurs with a religious background or a history of international travel — people like the Kuçars — were sentenced to lengthy prison terms.

...

the seven minute listen, if you don't wanna read, is worth the time.

so, am expecting whataboutism, but perhaps just garden variety deflection will be the response.

@Hurlsnot

so our guestimate on +20 years, advanced degree, and other factors to be achieving six figures were more accurate than we expected. at 22 years is possible.  

nevertheless, we keep trying to explain how cost o' living (not limited to housing) is necessary context when comparing incomes o' those o' working in san jose or nyc as 'posed to rural tn or texas. am not quite sure how to explain different so it sinks in with a few o' the more obdurate... though admitted a good start would likely be to avoid calling folks "obdurate." 

HA! Good Fun!

The sad reality of  how the CCP is attempting to reeducate the Uyghurs is an example of one of the worst examples of  state sponsored  discrimination against a Muslim community I have come across in memory. I have watched some documentaries on this and how some Chinese officials  try to explain what the camps are about and as usual the CCP explanation  doesnt make it much better. The CCP think that the problems with the Uyghurs is that dont understand or appreciate the great history of being part of China 

I am not surprised that the  global outrage that you normally hear from some people when the US is involved in an accidental killing of civilians like in Afghanistan is almost  non-existent. It gets raised on CNN and Al-Jazeera and they very critical but their is no interest  generally from Muslim activists  that should raise this like we see with the Palestine  \Israeli conflict  

But human rights abuses and killings of civilians nowadays  for many is not about the death or abuse of civilians its about who commits the crime. The attempt to raise this in the UNSC was blocked by China which is normal for the veto when it suits permanent members but the UNSC does agree on certain sanctions so the veto reality is not a permanent example of the UN ineffectiveness 

https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2020/07/alina-rizvi-unsc-reform-uighurs/

[Guard Dog]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

Uyghur kids recall physical and mental torment at Chinese boarding schools in Xinjiang

That same year, Chinese leader Xi Jinping personally ordered a massive security campaign to extinguish terrorist threats by targeting the entire Uyghur ethnic group.

Xinjiang quickly began constructing a sprawling network of detention camps and started expanding existing prisons. At least hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs and other historically Muslim ethnic minorities were sent to such "transformation through education" camps to study Chinese political ideology and the Chinese language, despite having no criminal record. In some of these facilities, Uyghurs also reported being mentally and physically tortured and the women sterilized. Uyghurs with a religious background or a history of international travel — people like the Kuçars — were sentenced to lengthy prison terms.

...

the seven minute listen, if you don't wanna read, is worth the time.

so, am expecting whataboutism, but perhaps just garden variety deflection will be the response.

 

Quote

 In some of these facilities, Uyghurs also reported being mentally and physically tortured and the women sterilized. Uyghurs with a religious background or a history of international travel — people like the Kuçars — were sentenced to lengthy prison terms.

Disgusting. It makes Pelosi's admonition not to upset the CCP all the more vile. If I were an athlete in the games I'd hope I had the courage to speak up. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Guard Dog

[Zoraptor]

'Funny'* thing is that half of the world leaders who have turned up to the opening ceremony are... muslim. Literally, 10 out of 20 of the leaders there are muslim. In contrast the only muslim 'country' in the diplomatic boycott is Kosovo, which doesn't even have an independent foreign policy.

It's deeply ironic that when you get an actual and genuine case of muslims being persecuted muslim 'champions' like MbS or MbZ kiss the ring and muslim little b brotherhood be damned. And you have those with similar supposed sentiments who didn't turn up- one Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for example; since he's in the prelims of an election race and the optics wouldn't be good- sending Uighurs back to China despite all their talk.

*For something I actually found funny, the country with the 3rd most contestants in the Olympics is listed as ROC- which is, of course, the abbreviation for Republic of China, ie Taiwan. Sadly, in this case it actually stands for Russian Olympic Committee...

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

'Funny'* thing is that half of the world leaders who have turned up to the opening ceremony are... muslim. Literally, 10 out of 20 of the leaders there are muslim. In contrast the only muslim 'country' in the diplomatic boycott is Kosovo, which doesn't even have an independent foreign policy.

It's deeply ironic that when you get an actual and genuine case of muslims being persecuted muslim 'champions' like MbS or MbZ kiss the ring and muslim little b brotherhood be damned. And you have those with similar supposed sentiments who didn't turn up- one Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for example; since he's in the prelims of an election race and the optics wouldn't be good- sending Uighurs back to China despite all their talk.

*For something I actually found funny, the country with the 3rd most contestants in the Olympics is listed as ROC- which is, of course, the abbreviation for Republic of China, ie Taiwan. Sadly, in this case it actually stands for Russian Olympic Committee...

I was about to  disagree with you but then I realized you make some good points and funny as well 

What I have noticed about most ME countries   is that they dont comment publicly  on real examples of blatant discrimination outside of the ME  like in Myanmar and China, Al-Jazeera will cover these developments but you dont hear  much from  governments

And Im not saying they must comment but you would assume some concern. But then  I wonder if you think about the different ethnic groups in the ME maybe Arabs, Turks and Persians have no ethnic connection to the Muslims in China and Myanmar and its more a Western assumption that religions care about each other ?

And the ME is also been going through some of the most violent realities over the last 20  years but things are getting more stable compared to previous years. So I can easily understand how most people in ME  countries would say " we are more focused with our countries and stability and thats our priority ".

In JHB  in about 2012 I met 2 guys who were cousins from Turkey and my girlfriend asked if they could come to my place to visit and I dont mind strangers coming to my place as long as someone knows them. And I ended up becoming friends with them as they both had similar interests to me and they had both knew the ME which I found interesting

But I will never forget  when I first met them and they mentioned they from Turkey it was a positive because I consider Turkey an important country and the link to the Ottoman empire is fascinating. But I asked them both " what  is the reason your government wont recognize the Armenian genocide " and they  responded with something like " Turkey didnt commit genocide, that story is not true" ...I left it because they both seemed sincere with this view and I didnt  want to  debate why because they guests at my  house and it would rude to push this topic. But it is a strange way to reflect on history to ignore the bad events your country did because it was long time ago so why would it make a difference?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

Part of the reason the Saudis and other gulf states repeatedly try to kill off Al Jazeera. They talk too much about uncomfortable truths for the liking of the resident autocrats in those countries 

[Chairchucker]

18 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Oh so you do know something about the human rights reality of China, why didnt you respond to my question about Russia and China with the same alacrity and agreement 

 

but surly the US is not an example of fear and nationalism? The Trump presidency was an anomaly and hopefully we wont see another disruptor like him again unless

Did you take the Dahmer analogy as a ringing endorsement of the Chinese and Russian governments?

 

With regards to the USA, I do not share your optimism. Several million voted for Trump the second time round, I expect several million will vote for him if he stands the next go around, and it is simply not good enough to blame people voting for Trump entirely on the Democrats not having a strong enough candidate, because at some level, several million people still have to make a conscious decision to vote for Trump./

[BruceVC]

21 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

Did you take the Dahmer analogy as a ringing endorsement of the Chinese and Russian governments?

 

With regards to the USA, I do not share your optimism. Several million voted for Trump the second time round, I expect several million will vote for him if he stands the next go around, and it is simply not good enough to blame people voting for Trump entirely on the Democrats not having a strong enough candidate, because at some level, several million people still have to make a conscious decision to vote for Trump./

I would have been very surprised if you not aware of the reality of human rights in China, you do live in Australia and if you were not of the Chinese anger towards you guys generally then I would be shocked. Gorth mentioned it  and I watched this ridiculous Chinese propaganda video that only the Chinese would create about some childish criticism towards the Oz governments leadership....it was funny because it was so badly done  

But I also realized that the Oz government over the last 12  years has really allowed your economy to be deeply connected to China and you guys seemed to really believe that China is the same as every other country around trade  protocol and what that means. But most investment in China is always about the excellent market opportunities but you dont commit too much into one basket....and especially when its China. 

If you never criticize the  CCP about certain political and ideological views they have then you dont have to worry about them punishing you economically and obviously they can only  harm you if you have invested deeply and the link I will post discusses this ...but Oz is invested and its your governments task to extricate you without economic crisis

And what can trigger the CCP, when your government started  questioning the 5G Huawei backdoor routers 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerns_over_Chinese_involvement_in_5G_wireless_networks

And this is an absolutely real risk that allows the CCP access to any network when utilized and no government or company serious with security concerns would install Huawei after this. And your government raised this with China and that is why I think they mad? Your real concern should be that China can freeze anything economically that Oz has invested and they will happily use to express their happiness

But  can  we discuss the US because I want to understand your view a bit more? Do you feel the Trump presidency created this negative view you have of the US and what are the events that concern you the most ..I can guess but people have different views?

But your current trade tensions with China can be mitigated if you accept the US is your best friend in this global arena. The Trump trade war with China confirmed something interesting that the US  has the ability to cause the CCP to be wary and not dismiss what the US thinks. The whole idea of that trade war was  from one of Trumps economic geniuses ....full credit to him but not to Trump. Ross is considered a more Conservative economist but he is very  clever and most didnt think the trade war would make any difference to Chinas confidence but it did 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Ross

But how is your economy now and has the rift with had any noticeable difference?

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

Part of the reason the Saudis and other gulf states repeatedly try to kill off Al Jazeera. They talk too much about uncomfortable truths for the liking of the resident autocrats in those countries 

I think I know why you guys  have a very negative view of Saudi Arabia and its influence?

When that journalist was killed in Turkey their was a huge global response to the new Saudi king and then yes as  you correctly pointed  how they kicked Qatar out of the Gulf States and Saudi and Egypt made these completely unreasonable demands with this list and one of them was shutting down Al Jazeera 

Qatar refused and I admire them for that decision because Al Jazeera was I think was their main objective. Now the ME is not a place where a free media matters in many countries so its important Qatar refused to acquiesce 

I have found all the Gulf States very well run and very accommodating for consultancy work and SA companies generate huge revenue on projects. But overall if I had to choose one country to work in for a long time it would be Qatar

Anyway I think you are unintentionally comparing the ME to first world Democracies so the killing of a journalist is considered an attack on  the institutions  that define what most Democracy stands for?

But the majority of ME countries are not Democracies and I dont think you get  a truly free media in most countries. The citizens in most of these countries dont seem that concerned ?

[Chairchucker]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

CHINA STUFF

But  can  we discuss the US because I want to understand your view a bit more? Do you feel the Trump presidency created this negative view you have of the US and what are the events that concern you the most ..I can guess but people have different views?

But your current trade tensions with China can be mitigated if you accept the US is your best friend in this global arena. The Trump trade war with China confirmed something interesting that the US  has the ability to cause the CCP to be wary and not dismiss what the US thinks. The whole idea of that trade war was  from one of Trumps economic geniuses ....full credit to him but not to Trump. Ross is considered a more Conservative economist but he is very  clever and most didnt think the trade war would make any difference to Chinas confidence but it did 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Ross

But how is your economy now and has the rift with had any noticeable difference?

Yep the CCP sucks, that's why I compared them to Dahmer, still confused how you saw that and somehow thought I wasn't being critical of them.

 

No, the Trump presidency didn't create this negative view, although it sure contributed. The USA, like Australia, was built off the backs of racist policies and racist people. I think it is incredibly naive to think that just because the specific laws that mention race have been eradicated, that racism within the general population and in the practices within institutions is solved, and furthermore, as has been brought up a number of times, there is a bunch of evidence that institutional racism exists, this is not just our opinion, this is people looking at the date and going 'yep, minorities are not being treated equally'.

[Gfted1]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

When that journalist was killed in Turkey their was a huge global response...

The buttock hurt is exquisite.

[BruceVC]

16 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

Yep the CCP sucks, that's why I compared them to Dahmer, still confused how you saw that and somehow thought I wasn't being critical of them.

 

No, the Trump presidency didn't create this negative view, although it sure contributed. The USA, like Australia, was built off the backs of racist policies and racist people. I think it is incredibly naive to think that just because the specific laws that mention race have been eradicated, that racism within the general population and in the practices within institutions is solved, and furthermore, as has been brought up a number of times, there is a bunch of evidence that institutional racism exists, this is not just our opinion, this is people looking at the date and going 'yep, minorities are not being treated equally'.

When you say you agree you come from white, male privlidege how would you define that personally and how has it changed your views if at all ?

And is this  a general view your friends and family agree with you on?

 

[Gfted1]

34 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

...white, male privlidege how would you define that personally and how has it changed your views if at all ?

I can provide an example (I think its an example)... one of my friends is AA, and an obviously LGBT woman, and anytime we go anywhere together you can immediately see other peoples judgements. Or they completely ignore the fact thats shes standing right next to me and focus the conversation towards me. Its subtle and hard to explain...for example we went to Home Depot to get some stuff for her house and she asked a clerk where something was and he ignored her and responded to me and I was just standing there. Or once we went to a car dealership to drop off her car for an oil change, and I walked in behind her, and the dude focused on me first even though she was ahead of me. I dont know if its her race or sexuality (or both?), and maybe Im making it up in my head, but its really eye opening. Is that white privilege? Is that racism? Is that homophobia? Is that all three?

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I can provide an example (I think its an example)... one of my friends is AA, and an obviously LGBT woman, and anytime we go anywhere together you can immediately see other peoples judgements. Or they completely ignore the fact thats shes standing right next to me and focus the conversation towards me. Its subtle and hard to explain...for example we went to Home Depot to get some stuff for her house and she asked a clerk where something was and he ignored her and responded to me and I was just standing there. Or once we went to a car dealership to drop off her car for an oil change, and I walked in behind her, and the dude focused on me first even though she was ahead of me. I dont know if its her race or sexuality (or both?), and maybe Im making it up in my head, but its really eye opening. Is that white privilege? Is that racism? Is that homophobia? Is that all three?

What an interesting story, I didnt think you had LGBT  friends and its not  because I think you homophobic because you have always  liked stories in your ratings where someone  posts something positive about LGBT rights

It is a good example and yes I wonder if its her race or her sexual orientation. I am sure its  her orientation but you would think people would be less homophobic and I assume she ignored it  because she often experiences looks?

It would be an honest and sincere question to mention that you noticed people looking at her and did she notice it as well. And  say to her you felt uncomfortable and you want to know how she felt, Im sure she is use to ignorant people staring but sometimes people stare but  its harmless and not about bigotry

I use to always ask my girlfriends and gay  friends questions like this so I understand their reality and how it matters to them and  they will appreciate it  because you trying to understand something that we have never been  subjected to  but you can always empathize with anyone once you understand what they experience

And a real friendship with her is more real and meaningful to her than what you may think. Where did you guys meet and how did you become friends ?

 

 

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I think I know why you guys  have a very negative view of Saudi Arabia and its influence?

When that journalist was killed in Turkey their was a huge global response to the new Saudi king and then yes as  you correctly pointed  how they kicked Qatar out of the Gulf States and Saudi and Egypt made these completely unreasonable demands with this list and one of them was shutting down Al Jazeera 

Qatar refused and I admire them for that decision because Al Jazeera was I think was their main objective. Now the ME is not a place where a free media matters in many countries so its important Qatar refused to acquiesce 

I have found all the Gulf States very well run and very accommodating for consultancy work and SA companies generate huge revenue on projects. But overall if I had to choose one country to work in for a long time it would be Qatar

Anyway I think you are unintentionally comparing the ME to first world Democracies so the killing of a journalist is considered an attack on  the institutions  that define what most Democracy stands for?

But the majority of ME countries are not Democracies and I dont think you get  a truly free media in most countries. The citizens in most of these countries dont seem that concerned ?

The backlash wasn't so much against the new Saudi King, as much as it was against MBS and the whole rather spotty human rights records. The only difference between Saudi Arabia and Ayatollah ruled Iran is, one is the pet of the west (despite hating the west) and the other is openly hostile towards the west. You could say the main difference is less hypocrisy about their dislikes in Iran. Saudi Arabia is a country where women get killed for not marrying the groom chosen by her dad and effectively get sent into life long slavery (i.e. can't leave home without a guardian etc.). LGBT rights? Free press? A functioning, impartial justice system? Keeping people from south east Asia as domestic slaves?

Lots of reasons not to like Saudi Arabia, don't need a specific targeted killing of a system critic for that. But strangely enough, people in the west got more upset over the treatment of a Russian extremist who campaigned against Putin on an ultra-nationalistic platform with posters showing that all Muslims should have a pistol put against their heads and shot on sight to keep Russia "clean". Even Xi isn't that bad (by comparison). This guy is still alive by the way, but the west is more concerned about his "human rights" than they are/were about the murder of a journalist in an Embassy.

Al Jazeera was indeed the main thing the Saudi's demanded shut in order to end the blockade of Qatar. They do seem to attract attention over the years. They HQ in Baghdad got bombed by the US in April 2003 (Bush has a long history of disliking AJ). The Bush administration was never held accountable for the killing of the journalists, lots of AJ journalists got killed over the years in Kabul, reporting from Afghanistan (ISIS in particular didn't like them at all and claimed the fist kills of AJ journalists and the Taliban too has declared them Persona non Grata in Afghanistan), in 2021 the IDF decided that was *enough* showing what life in Gaza was like and the Israeli Airforce bombed the AJ office in Gaza (destroying the AP office too as "collateral damage", because what's better than one dead journalist? Many dead journalists).

They also have some very good coverage from Myanmar, so I'm sure they're on the military juntas "not welcome here" list there too. Syria got covered IMHO a lot more comprehensively than any western media did. In short, they seems to make enemies in a lot of places in the world, from the US over the Middle East to South East Asia...

More ME countries need something like AJ to stand up for freedom of speech and human rights domestically and internationally. I think I did mention they make almost half of my news sources (the BBC close to they other half and then a few local Aussie and Danish sites for good measure)

[Gfted1]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Where did you guys meet and how did you become friends ?

We live on the same street a few houses apart. Shes one of my garage drinking buddies.