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The All Things Political Thread (One thread to rule them all and in the darkness bind them)


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7 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

I mean, you do talk about the piles of gold you have buried around your sprawling acreage pretty regularly. :-

That's why I always thought @Guard Dog was a leprechaun ūü§Ē

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‚ÄúHe who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.‚ÄĚ - Albert Einstein

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Maryland legislature changes the state song.
 

sorry to say I was not familiar with the lyrics to the song Maryland my Maryland. But having read them I’m left wondering why that even was the state song LOL! And why they waited so long to change it. Maryland’s role in the Civil War was complicated. It was a union state with heavy confederate sympathy. Slavery was legal there almost throughout the entire duration of the war. A full year AFTER the emancipation Proclamation before the practice was banned. 
 

I will freely admit I do have a passion for history. And I generally do not like to see things of historical significance changed for the sake of modern day political groupthink. That is definitely not the case here. This one should’ve been done away with a long time ago.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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26 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Maryland legislature changes the state song.
 

sorry to say I was not familiar with the lyrics to the song Maryland my Maryland. But having read them I’m left wondering why that even was the state song LOL! And why they waited so long to change it. Maryland’s role in the Civil War was complicated. It was a union state with heavy confederate sympathy. Slavery was legal there almost throughout the entire duration of the war. A full year AFTER the emancipation Proclamation before the practice was banned. 
 

I will freely admit I do have a passion for history. And I generally do not like to see things of historical significance changed for the sake of modern day political groupthink. That is definitely not the case here. This one should’ve been done away with a long time ago.

Guess it shows how little people care about state songs.  Maybe they can replace it with "John Brown's Body"

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Guess it shows how little people care about state songs.

Yeah, right?  I have literally no idea my state song.

So much for State empowerment.  Millennials simply do not give a **** about them, right or left.  

Unless of course, one side does something that makes the other spin the issue, then of course they'll care, whcih brings us to:

So much for partisan politics, better off just abolishing political parties.

:ADD rant over:

Edited by ComradeYellow
  • Hmmm 1

‚ÄúIf we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.‚Ä̬†

-Ulysses S. Grant

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3 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Just in case you didnt know, its an olden tyme term for "a wealthy and powerful person, typically one involved in business or politics."

Aand you're not? My senses are failing me. ūüė≠

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1 hour ago, ComradeYellow said:

Yeah, right?  I have literally no idea my state song.

So much for State empowerment.  Millennials simply do not give a **** about them, right or left.  

Unless of course, one side does something that makes the other spin the issue, then of course they'll care, whcih brings us to:

So much for partisan politics, better off just abolishing political parties.

:ADD rant over:

I think most of the "Official State _________" are just publicity things Maryland's Official Dance is the square dance and sport is Jousting.  My life didn't change knowing that.

As for partisan politics, G. Washington probably had it right in his farewell address. "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism."  Although with limited communication choices in the late 1700s, a party was probably the only way to organize a coherent national platform for national elections.

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7 minutes ago, Amentep said:

As for partisan politics, G. Washington probably had it right in his farewell address. "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism."  Although with limited communication choices in the late 1700s, a party was probably the only way to organize a coherent national platform for national elections.

The Confederate government did abolish political parties, they even did it for the right reasons: leads to polarization.  About the only good thing they did.

Truly amazed the U.S. government failed to absorb that feature once the war was over.

:never too late:

‚ÄúIf we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.‚Ä̬†

-Ulysses S. Grant

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Even if they did abolish parties you would never know if they’re not secretly organized behind the scenes. Like roaches in the kitchen. They don’t appear to be helping each other but whenever there is one there is another and another and another

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Even if they did abolish parties you would never know if they’re not secretly organized behind the scenes. Like roaches in the kitchen. They don’t appear to be helping each other but whenever there is one there is another and another and another

It's a problem- everyone loves a good party. ūü•≥

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This comes two months late, but with these two videos from Raytheon, one of the top 5 defence primes and now top supplier for turbofan engines for jetliners, released immediately after the inauguration of Biden and Harris I can't help but think there's a theme behind them.

 

Edited by Agiel
Quote
"Turned wrong way round, the relentless unforeseen was what we schoolchildren studied as 'History,' harmless history, where everything unexpected in its own time is chronicled on the page as inevitable. The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic.‚ÄĚ

 

-Philip Roth, The Plot Against America

 

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2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Even if they did abolish parties you would never know if they’re not secretly organized behind the scenes. Like roaches in the kitchen. They don’t appear to be helping each other but whenever there is one there is another and another and another

O.K. Goebbels ūüėõ

‚ÄúIf we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.‚Ä̬†

-Ulysses S. Grant

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26 minutes ago, Amentep said:

It's a problem- everyone loves a good party. ūü•≥

Especially :

voc8t0qmnne01.jpg

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Especially :

You could at least add ONE song to this satire you know,

 

‚ÄúIf we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.‚Ä̬†

-Ulysses S. Grant

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9 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

Yeah, right?  I have literally no idea my state song.

So much for State empowerment.  Millennials simply do not give a **** about them, right or left.  

Unless of course, one side does something that makes the other spin the issue, then of course they'll care, whcih brings us to:

So much for partisan politics, better off just abolishing political parties.

:ADD rant over:

Comrade why do you think millennials dont care about things like state songs and dont you think this is an issue around patriotism  or rather a lack of support or  belief in  your country ?You say they care about left  vs right rhetoric but what about the substantive issues like conflicts in  the ME, the importance of voting and the risk the US  face from China or Russia?

In your opinion what are  the things young people in the USA care about and how do we motivate them to be more productive citizens who do care about their country and spend less time on Social Media lambasting the state of the world instead of working to change it constructively by getting a job for example.  How do we change this view that life is  not about  instant gratification and reward and somethings need to be worked for and take time

We have the same issue in SA where many millennials dont seem to care about issues that IMO they should because these political and geopolitical issues they will inherit. Its not all young people of course but I see this worrying trend of " internet and SM " activists where everyone has an opinion on SM but no one is prepared to get involved in RL to make these changes on the ground

And before you assume I am out of touch with young people because of my age ( thats partly true of course), I use to be part of  numerous mentorship programs in JHB  and always have. These were optional programs to be part of where young people, ages from 22-24 , with degrees or qualifications in software or finance would be mentored and guided at various customers. These young people I found to be hard working and committed to  corporate ethos  and understand that economic transformation is a journey and their is no such thing as " you must be given nice things without working "

So I am  definitely not concerned with all young people, I just am concerned with the large groups of young people who seem to lack direction or focus on things and crusades that are Internet based but dont lead to real change. How do we reach out to these young people...what motivates them?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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4 hours ago, Amentep said:

It's a problem- everyone loves a good party. ūü•≥

That cannot be denied, well said and QFT 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk-is-a-model-to-the-world-on-diversity-and-not-institutionally-racist/

Guys here is a very interesting link  about a 264 page report that was commissioned by the UK government to determine if the UK is a "racist " country and if " structural racism and institutional racism " exist. I am surprised they felt the need to create this study because I have never  believed the UK is fundamentally racist and I dont even live their?

Anyway the report found that racism exists, like in all countries, but its not "structural ". The report also says..to quote 

 " It also said that issues around race and racism are becoming "less important", and in some cases are not a significant factor in explaining inequalities.

Different outcomes are complex and involve social class and family structure along with race, it said "

I am not  going to read the whole 264 page report but this is important because it aligns with a view that myself and others have that their are  far too many generalizations using  words like racism, colonialism  and structural racism to  describe things like inequality or to explain certain developments. In other words not  all our societal woes are  about bigotry or historical injustice 

I would like to see a similar report conducted in the USA because I also dont believe the US is fundamentally racist but like the UK racism exists but its not structural. I know many people will disagree with me on this and thats fine as we all entitled to our opinions 

@Raithe

What is your opinion on this topic in the UK  if you  dont mind sharing?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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30 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk-is-a-model-to-the-world-on-diversity-and-not-institutionally-racist/

Guys here is a very interesting link  about a 264 page report that was commissioned by the UK government to determine if the UK is a "racist " country and if " structural racism and institutional racism " exist. I am surprised they felt the need to create this study because I have never  believed the UK is fundamentally racist and I dont even live their?

Anyway the report found that racism exists, like in all countries, but its not "structural ". The report also says..to quote 

 " It also said that issues around race and racism are becoming "less important", and in some cases are not a significant factor in explaining inequalities.

Different outcomes are complex and involve social class and family structure along with race, it said "

I am not  going to read the whole 264 page report but this is important because it aligns with a view that myself and others have that their are  far too many generalizations using  words like racism, colonialism  and structural racism to  describe things like inequality or to explain certain developments. In other words not  all our societal woes are  about bigotry or historical injustice 

I would like to see a similar report conducted in the USA because I also dont believe the US is fundamentally racist but like the UK racism exists but its not structural. I know many people will disagree with me on this and thats fine as we all entitled to our opinions 

@Raithe

What is your opinion on this topic in the UK  if you  dont mind sharing?

You could question that study only based on fact that 4.2% of UK's MP's are from ethnic minorities where 14% of their population belong in ethnic minorities.

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@BruceVC

There are some ongoing arguments about that report and what it highlighted. A bunch of it was already known, there was a similar one on how multicultural higher education is, and how quite often the minority ethnic groups are getting better grades.

However it's also being "balanced" by how outside of higher education, lower graded "white" people are still managing to get better jobs than those minorities - which the report didn't really mention.

While the report looks into institutional racism, it glosses over how there is a certain historical mistrust which causes some divides, and there's a lot of feelings in the various minority groups that the report really is more of a PR move than an understanding of what they're actually dealing with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56585538

Matthew Ryder QC, the lawyer who represented the family of Stephen Lawrence and a former deputy mayor of London, pointed to a 2019 report by the University of Aberdeen which he said found that white working class boys with lower educational qualifications and a lower likelihood of going to university, still had higher employment rates and higher social mobility than those from minority ethnic backgrounds.

One of the key arguments from minority groups at the moment here is the use of the term BAME as a generalisation of things, rather than looking at specific problems.  It lumps all reactions together under one acronym rather than considering how different groups deal with different problems. The report does pick up on that, and I believe it mentions it, but again, it's one of those points of discussion on generalisation vs specifics.

 

 

 

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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5 minutes ago, Elerond said:

You could question that study only based on fact that 4.2% of UK's MP's are from ethnic minorities where 14% of their population belong in ethnic minorities.

Yes, no one is denying that but is that an example of racism ?

What if a ethnic minority community votes for a white MP by choice ?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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11 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Yes, no one is denying that but is that an example of racism ?

Institutional racism is mainly laws, customs and economical and social realities that cause minorities to be in disadvantage compared to main population. Which includes political lower political power than their proportional number in population would suggest. 

Usually institutional racism is not caused by malice towards minorities, but conventions created to support majority which incidentally put minorities in (greater) disadvantage.

Edited by Elerond
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5 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Institutional racism is mainly laws, customs and economical and social realities that cause minorities to be in disadvantage compared to main population. Which includes political lower political power than their proportional number in population would suggest. 

Usually institutional racism is not caused by malice towards minorities, but conventions created to support majority which incidentally put minorities in (greater) disadvantage.

You raise good points as usual and I added something to my original post, ethnic communities in the UK sometimes vote for white MPs so you cant use the example of the number of non-white MPs in the UK as an example of racism or lower political power because MP as voted in by choice by  the people on the ground 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Just now, BruceVC said:

You raise good points as usual and I added something to my original post, ethnic communities in the UK sometimes vote for white MPs so you cant use the example of the number of non-white MPs in the UK as an example of racism or lower political power because MP as voted in by choice of the people on the ground 

Also some of UK's white people vote ethnic candidates, but question is why white people are seen to be better to lead the country. That is clear text book example of institutional racism, which maybe caused by multitude of factors, like white people have better education or they get better visibility during elections, etc.. And these factors are then again caused some other factors and so on. Which creates institutional disadvantage for minorities.

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13 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Also some of UK's white people vote ethnic candidates, but question is why white people are seen to be better to lead the country. That is clear text book example of institutional racism, which maybe caused by multitude of factors, like white people have better education or they get better visibility during elections, etc.. And these factors are then again caused some other factors and so on. Which creates institutional disadvantage for minorities.

About 85 % of the UK is white. If you look at countries like China, Russia, India, Mexico, the ME and all African countries you will notice their are also minority ethnic groups in these countries but the presidents, leaders and  prime ministers are almost always the main ethnic group 

Would you say all these countries are examples of institutional  racism because they dont have minority leadership ?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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