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Politics US Edition (2021-vol 2)


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Bonus episode: Inside the craziest meeting of the Trump presidency

Flynn went berserk. The former three-star general, whom Trump had fired as his first national security adviser after he was caught lying to the FBI (and later pardoned), stood up and turned from the Resolute Desk to face Herschmann.

"You're quitting! You're a quitter! You're not fighting!” he exploded at the senior adviser. Flynn then turned to the president, and implored: "Sir, we need fighters."

Herschmann ignored Flynn at first and continued to probe Powell's pitch with questions about the underlying evidence. "All you do is promise, but never deliver," he said to her sharply.

Flynn was ranting, seemingly infuriated about anyone challenging Powell, who had represented him in his recent legal battles.

Finally Herschmann had enough. "Why the **** do you keep standing up and screaming at me?" he shot back at Flynn. "If you want to come over here, come over here. If not, sit your ass down." Flynn sat back down.

...

is gonna take years before those who voted for trump a second time will realize (and forbear they admit) just how fortunate is america that trump failed to be reelected.

HA! Good Fun! 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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2 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

is gonna take years before those who voted for trump a second time will realize (and forbear they admit) just how fortunate is america that trump failed to be reelected.

A bit too optimistic.

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Too keep prices competitive they will have to lower costs. The “average” profit margin for a business to be considered profitable in the US is 10%. IMO that is one bad month away from being broke but that is where many are. In fast food for example according to Upserve is 6-9% by franchise. In most franchise businesses they are compelled to buy materials and expenables from the parent company. So that price cannot be cut (by the franchisees at least). They cannot cut the cost of utility use and you KNOW the municipality and state are not going to cut them a break on taxes to deal with their new labor cost. Where does the cost cut come from? Labor of course. You retool with computer sales kiosks or automate the cooking process somewhat. If the cost of labor doubles then you do with less labor to maintain the status quo. Or pass the cost on to the consumer. Neither option is particularly good. Glad I don’t have to choose. 

Yet lots of businesses pay people more than $15 per hour and make much less money than some of these organizations. I can think of a few that pay their employees almost $15 per hour now and also do just fine. It's almost like there's something wrong with the business model. Hmm.

But to your point, I do see the big franchises using this as an opportunity to automate more of their business so I agree that it's coming. I just don't agree that it's the *only* route available to them.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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18 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

 

Quote

But Powell, fixing on Trump, continued to elaborate on a fantastical election narrative involving Venezuela, Iran, China and others. She named a county in Georgia where she claimed she could prove that Dominion had illegally flipped the vote.

Herschmann interrupted to point out that Trump had actually won the Georgia county in question: "So your theory is that Dominion intentionally flipped the votes so we could win that county?"

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

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28 minutes ago, Malcador said:

A bit too optimistic.

 

people forget what it were like when nixon resigned. republican Congressmen who were not loyal enough were punished by republican voters in the following election. one reason we had so few Congressmen condemn presidents clinton or trump is 'cause they learned from history.

keep in mind, nixon were much more popular than trump.

is gonna take a few years.

Trump Destroyed Himself

am knowing there is a few who keep on with the correlation fail, but trump lost suburban and educated white voters in numbers sufficient to negate fact trump increased republican voter turnout and did better with minorities in 2020 than he did in 2016. new automatic registration laws in a couple key states such as michigan and georgia (nevada were a battleground just added to the list) as well as disaffected republicans made the difference. is why so many threatened republican Congressman were elected in states/counties where trump did worse than the competition. reason we don't have a trump Presidency in 2021 is in large part due to the fact many republicans had enough o' trump.

the plethora o' lawsuits trump faces is gonna be extreme public and the many annoyed republican suburbanites is gonna be appalled and indignant and pretend as if news o' trump corruption and deceit is revelatory. am s'posing quicker the nixon, the bloom will come off the rose. 

however, there is the trump base which has turned trumpism into a religion o' sorts and those folks will never admit they made a mistake. the hardcore will only further galvanize.

HA! Good Fun!

ps one thing to keep in mind is just how slow a few o' these trump lawsuits is gonna happen. for example, am assuming is three years before the trump tax stuff finally advances to a point where we see a trial. will be more than a few pundits at fox, newsmax and oan warning viewers that any rush to judgement is unfair. will be some time before we see the considerable number o' ambivalent republicans admit their mistake.

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/reddit-trader-deep****ingvalue-loses-19-million-two-days-he-holds-gamestop-stock

 

Wonder how many dream chasers got left in tears after being played by big sharks cannibalizing smaller funds (looking at you Citadel)

Uh, his $50k investment is still worth like $22 million, so I'm not sure how big his tears are. 

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1 hour ago, Achilles said:

Yet lots of businesses pay people more than $15 per hour and make much less money than some of these organizations. I can think of a few that pay their employees almost $15 per hour now and also do just fine. It's almost like there's something wrong with the business model. Hmm.

But to your point, I do see the big franchises using this as an opportunity to automate more of their business so I agree that it's coming. I just don't agree that it's the *only* route available to them.

Comparing what one business in one industry does to another business in a different industry does is not even an apples and oranges comparison. Hell it’s hard to even compare two of the same businesses operating in different neighborhoods of the same city. Each has its own challenges to deal with. Suppose for a second you are talking to a small businessman operating on a 6 to 9% profit margin and the cost of your labor, already your biggest expense, doubles. Now your business is no longer profitable. What do you tell that man or woman? Which is preferable? A pizza joint that has eight employees making $10 an hour or five employees making $15 an hour? Or even no pizza joint at all. 
 

Once again I am not arguing that changing the minimum wage is a bad thing overall but it’s certainly going to be bad for some people and it’s going to come at a cost that I think the biggest proponents of it or not reckoning with. The extra money will certainly be nice for the people who are earning it. And the increased revenue from taxes on those people will be a boon to a community. But it might be a net loss with fewer people working. One thing that will not happen is the status quo being maintained.

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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4 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/reddit-trader-deep****ingvalue-loses-19-million-two-days-he-holds-gamestop-stock

 

Wonder how many dream chasers got left in tears after being played by big sharks cannibalizing smaller funds (looking at you Citadel)

But they are not in this to make money, right?

And how much does he still have? This could be like Facebook and Twitter after banning Trump, they lost billions but the stock value was still better thanmonths ago.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/02/02/parental-leave-trump-aides-465302
 

Wow. Team Biden has some nasty and vindictive characters on it.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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51 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/02/02/parental-leave-trump-aides-465302
 

Wow. Team Biden has some nasty and vindictive characters on it.

So...political appointees who serve under a particular President and are no longer employed when that president leaves are told incorrectly they're going to get benefits, then don't because their job ended, and its Biden's team's fault?  

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/02/02/parental-leave-trump-aides-465302
 

Wow. Team Biden has some nasty and vindictive characters on it.

is about political appointees. from our pov, show emails from previous administration officials stating that the new administration would honor parental leave o' political appointees is hilarious, but if we need explain the joke it is ruined. 

of all people, gd siding with political appointees who knew they could/would be having their jobs end january 20, 2021 and attempting to suck on the government teat after termination is curious... or maybe not. gonna lose your TANSTAAFL cred.

this were not a hidden problem. political appointees pretending as if they were caught unawares that they would lose all benefits and privileges with a change in administrations? these individuals had a whole lotta time to prepare before january 20, 2021, and rely on email correspondence from previous administration officials as if it grants some kinda authority or restitution claim is straining credulity.

yeah, anybody recent terminated from their job may sympathize. is possible anybody who has lost health coverage benefits might somehow sympathize... we s'pose.

whatever. is not as if wh gardeners or service personnel is losing benefits. we are talking political appointees who will not be fulfilling the post parental leave obligation for obvious reasons. again TANSTAAFL.

call us cold, but to paraphrase, flow my tears, the trump appointee said

HA! Good Fun!

ps change situation. assume for a sec that amy klobuchar or corey booker becomes President after biden (am not liking k. harris, so let's not even pretend she is next Prez) and a bunch o' former biden political appointees is given all kinda benefits after january 2025. we would be a bit annoyed. am suspecting gd would be annoyed. President booker, with no intention o' bringing the biden appointees into his new administration, nevertheless extends benefits 'cause the democrats are just one big happy family... or somesuch. screw that. 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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23 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

is about political appointees. from our pov, show emails from previous administration officials stating that the new administration would honor parental leave o' political appointees is hilarious, but if we need explain the joke it is ruined. 

of all people, gd siding with political appointees who knew they could/would be having their jobs end january 20, 2021 and attempting to suck on the government teat after termination is curious... or maybe not. gonna lose your TANSTAAFL cred.

this were not a hidden problem. political appointees pretending as if they were caught unawares that they would lose all benefits and privileges with a change in administrations? these individuals had a whole lotta time to prepare before january 20, 2021, and rely on email correspondence from previous administration officials as if it grants some kinda authority or restitution claim is straining credulity.

yeah, anybody recent terminated from their job may sympathize. is possible anybody who has lost health coverage benefits might somehow sympathize... we s'pose.

whatever. is not as if wh gardeners or service personnel is losing benefits. we are talking political appointees who will not be fulfilling the post parental leave obligation for obvious reasons. again TANSTAAFL.

call us cold, but to paraphrase, flow my tears, the trump appointee said

HA! Good Fun!

ps change situation. assume for a sec that amy klobuchar or corey booker becomes President after biden (am not liking k. harris, so let's not even pretend she is next Prez) and a bunch o' former biden political appointees is given all kinda benefits after january 2025. we would be a bit annoyed. am suspecting gd would be annoyed. President booker, with no intention o' bringing the biden appointees into his new administration, nevertheless extends benefits 'cause the democrats are just one big happy family... or somesuch. screw that. 

I was more referring to the tone than the actual act itself. Perhaps I should be somewhat sympathetic to government employees who lose their jobs considering... but I’m not.

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/02/02/parental-leave-trump-aides-465302
 

Wow. Team Biden has some nasty and vindictive characters on it.

Just trying to save taxpayer's money... 😛 Probably should have been nice to the people and grant it to them, make use of them as good PR for the whole "unity" shtick. 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Does anyone honestly think that enough Republicans will vote to convict Trump? Sure they turned on him initially but it seems like after they saw that he didn't lose as much support as expected they've softened their positions.

Free games updated 3/4/21

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1 minute ago, ShadySands said:

Does anyone honestly think that enough Republicans will vote to convict Trump? Sure they turned on him initially but it seems like after they saw that he didn't lose as much support as expected they've softened their positions.

no way is there enough votes, and am ok with that.

yeah, after january 6 am thinking guys like lindsey graham were shocked by how much support trump retained.

were after the capitol were attacked. no doubt many republican senators did some quick polling and discovered that a significant % o' republicans were still devoted to the Stop The Steal narrative and to trump personal. 

fine.

democrats managers should make their case. there will be a record o' who stood with trump in spite o' fact a cop died and many people were injured while insurrectionists broke into the Capitol, some o' whom were calling for aoc, pelosi and mike pence to be murdered. 

not enough votes? fine. the senators who once again vote transactional instead o' choosing to vote integrity will face a reckoning... maybe. probable not immediate. 

more significant, as we keep pointing out, the post mortem from the Presidential election reveals a significant % o' the republican party doesn't approve o' trump. republicans made gains in the House, but trump lost. the reason georgia lost two republican senators is in large part due to trump. force republicans to effective swear fealty to trump keeps the trump base happy, but is gonna make situation a whole lot tougher for any republican who needs educated and suburban republicans to win an reelection. 

a senate trial where as much trump ugly as possible is revealed daily/nightly while republicans resort to strained procedural arguments to take cover from facing reality makes it more difficult for the complicit republicans to later disavow trump when is clear he is doing more harm than good for the party.

the trial won't result in a conviction. what the trial will do is make it more difficult for those considerable number o' suburban republicans to vote for a trump candidate. doesn't need be 50% of republicans. doesn't need be 20% of republicans. particular for national elections like Presidency, the bannon line is enough.  a trial forces republicans to public stand with marjorie taylor greene and trump. good. you will continue to see business reduce republican funding efforts and you will have more than enough suburban republicans become actual independents to undermine future republican voting efforts which go beyond county levels. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Trump and his “support” and the people who tied themselves to it remind me of the old saw of Churchill’s about the men who ride to and fro on the backs of tigers.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

Does anyone honestly think that enough Republicans will vote to convict Trump?

No. I believe the most likely result is that Trump, allies, and enablers see no real consequences for the last four years and get whitewashed over the next couple of decades. If I were to bet I'd lay my money on Republicans who turn on Trump getting primaried with many losing while most Trump allies will wait out the current resentment towards Trump and survive due to enthusiastic bases and gerrymandering making their losses very unlikely. 2024 will probably see the heir to Trump (ideological and rhetorical, but possibly familial as well) or Trump himself become the Republican nominee for President or Vice President and thus a decent chance of being back in power. 

Maybe the Democrats pull a stunning upset and bury the GOP. Maybe Republicans are genuine in purging Trump's proto-fascism from their organization. I'd love to be wrong and either of these things happen, but I don't think I am.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

is gonna take years before those who voted for trump a second time will realize (and forbear they admit) just how fortunate is america that trump failed to be reelected.

I'm betting that at the end of 2022 tops people will be saying that voting Trump out of his second term was a mistake.

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Republicans won't do anything about Trump while there's a threat of a Trump Party forming, as it would cannabalise their support. Which is probably why there's talk of a Trump Party, most effective way to shore up support/ protection for Trump.

On the broader question, there was never any chance for conviction in the Senate when only 10 Repubs voted for impeachment in the House. They may get a few more Senate votes than the 2 you'd expect proportionally going from 400+ to 100, but Trump not being in office and having had his term expire rather than resigning to avoid impeachment makes for a very easy out.

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4 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I'm betting that at the end of 2022 tops people will be saying that voting Trump out of his second term was a mistake.

75+ million people voted for Trump, so I don't see why you would need to wait until 2022 to find people calling it a mistake. 

Good luck finding anyone who voted for Biden that would want Trump instead, though. Ain't nobody gonna miss those potus tweets. 

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3 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

75+ million people voted for Trump, so I don't see why you would need to wait until 2022 to find people calling it a mistake. 

Good luck finding anyone who voted for Biden that would want Trump instead, though. Ain't nobody gonna miss those potus tweets. 

So far, I've seen the opposite reaction from the conservatives I know that were genuinely disgusted by Trump. One person I know has been a conservative all her life, but had started to waver when Trump started getting popular in the run-up to the 2016 election, and refused to vote for him when he won the nomination (though she also refused to vote for Hillary). After four years of Trump, she gladly voted for Biden, and I guess watched him make his victory speech and then the inauguration as well. She said listening to him make his pathetically generic and boring speeches about unity and needing to come together as a nation and blah blah blah...just about put her to sleep - which is exactly what she wants after the last four years of madness, :p. Again, this is someone who's been conservative all her life, is Christian, pro-gun, strongly anti-abortion, Reagan was her childhood hero (born in the 70s...). She's not had a single negative word to say about the current administration so far...I'm sure after the last four years of the nation being collectively traumatized, any minor complaints we might have would be minor indeed, and we all know it and are going to keenly keep it in mind when evaluating this administration going forward. In that sense, Biden should have a much easier time having a generally positive image compared to his predecessors - for those of us that aren't obstinately clinging to bat**** insanity, of course.

Roughly half of the Republican House of Representatives gives the loud-and-proud QAnon rep, Greene, a standing ovation in the House. Can only assume the other half is thinking "welp this party is screwed...but if you can't beat them, you might as well join them".

Edited by Bartimaeus
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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

Quote

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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5 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

So far, I've seen the opposite reaction from the conservatives I know that were genuinely disgusted by Trump. One person I know has been a conservative all her life, but had started to waver when Trump started getting popular in the run-up to the 2016 election, and refused to vote for him when he won the nomination (though she also refused to vote for Hillary). After four years of Trump, she gladly voted for Biden, and I guess watched him make his victory speech and then the inauguration as well. She said listening to him make his pathetically generic and boring speeches about unity and needing to come together as a nation and blah blah blah...just about put her to sleep - which is exactly what she wants after the last four years of madness, :p. Again, this is someone who's been conservative all her life, is Christian, pro-gun, strongly anti-abortion, Reagan was her childhood hero (born in the 70s...). She's not had a single negative word to say about the current administration so far...I'm sure after the last four years of the nation being collectively traumatized, any minor complaints we might have would be minor indeed, and we all know it and are going to remember it when evaluating this administration going forward.

But these kinds of people are just as dumb as Trump himself, that's the issue here.  Reagan was a piece of dung who envisioned turning the U.S. into a fascist pro-Israel messianistic theocracy, how is Trump any different than that?  Or is mannerisms a complete indicator of political talent?  Dumb dumb dumb baby boomer dumbery.

 

7 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I'm betting that at the end of 2022 tops people will be saying that voting Trump out of his second term was a mistake.

I bet by the end of 2022 things will get really ugly again but Trump is not the answer/antidote.  I mean we do need real leadership that tackles the big picture but Trump is/was definitely not the right person for the job.  Bit of a glitzy con artist.

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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