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Politics US Edition (2021-vol 2)


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26 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Can you live off the unemployment and social security? If so, dueces. :lol:

Yes, you can that is point why they exist here (as that is what our constitution decrees, although there is constant political debate what is the minimum acceptable living standard )

Social benefit is 502.21 € ($601.78) + 70% of your rent  or housing expenses (recipient "socially mandatory" things like telephone subscription, news magazine subscription, mortgage payments, funeral expenses for family member, ticket to job interview etc. are usually either partially or fully paid addition to basic benefit).

Unemployment benefit is depends on your salary before you lost your job and which union you are part of. As for extreme example unemployed pilots get over 5000€ per month for two years, although usually number of unemployed pilots is 0, but that changed last year.

Typical unemployment benefit is 40%-70% of you salary depending how long you have been employed. If your unemployment benefit is less than 1000€ ($1 198.64) you also get housing support up to 70% of your rent or housing expenses  up to to 1200€ ($1 438.36) total in month.

Maximum housing support depends on which city you live.

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10 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

 

Maybe we can build cities that nobody lives in, or use them to fix our infrastructure. I even have a snazzy tagline, "Contribute to the pot, get three hots and a cot!"

Nah we already have cities no one lives in. Ever heard of Detroit? 😂

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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27 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Doing what?

....Open up state industries of course!  I think I've said this about 1000 times already.

All major powers have state run enterprises as well as a private sector, besides the U.S (mostly, I think some farming is nationalized)., and we are falling behind in case you haven't been reading international news (likely, as most Americans still don't know diddly squat about the world at large).

Edited by ComradeMaster

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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53 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

That's dumb.  I'd rather the state set the minimum wage and also provide employment to the unemployed when certain private sectors decide they're too backwards to handle the wages and go bust.

Also what you're describing doesn't sound anything like Communism but a welfare state.

Big difference.

Yeah I know it isn't communism (I lived next to great communist state USSR for long time before it collapsed, so I have pretty good knowledge how our system differs from theirs), even though that is what people always yell in internet discussion when welfare system are brought up as solution to societal issue.

And I know that government pointing jobs for everybody will most likely lead much worse situation than just paying social security, like kolkhozy in USSR work as warning example that still causes economical issues in Russia and Ukraine.

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9 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

....Open up state industries of course!  I think I've said this about 1000 times already.

All major powers have state run enterprises as well as a private sector, besides the U.S (mostly, I think some farming is nationalized)., and we are falling behind in case you haven't been reading international news (likely, as most Americans still don't know diddly squat about the world at large).

The only mational industries we have are the post office and the military, And the various agencies that report to the DOJ in the department of the interior. It’s not a very big workforce. State industries are even fewer. Once again mainly police, parks, social services and the like. Not very big workforce is. In fact my state just downsized theirs. One of the reasons why I’m drinking a beer at 7o’clock in the morning. Hell even the TVA is a private entity now. The government “owns” it but they don’t run it. Most work for the state and federal government projects are contracted out to private companies. The majority of people doing work for a government actually belong to a business with a contract. What you’re suggesting was done before in the 1930s. But it’s not happening now and it would take a lot of ramp up and money that nobody has to do it today

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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29 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Yes, you can that is point why they exist here (as that is what our constitution decrees, although there is constant political debate what is the minimum acceptable living standard )

I know Ive asked you before but I forget...what is the lifespan of these benefits? I think you said before that a person can conceivably live their entire life without working? Not mentioned but I presume Finland also has a food program?

Here in the US, if youve never worked a day in your life, then naturally you have never contributed into our version of "Social Security", and as such you cannot receive funds from it. But I think in Finland this is not a stipulation to receiving benefits?  

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22 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I know Ive asked you before but I forget...what is the lifespan of these benefits? I think you said before that a person can conceivably live their entire life without working? Not mentioned but I presume Finland also has a food program?

Here in the US, if youve never worked a day in your life, then naturally you have never contributed into our version of "Social Security", and as such you cannot receive funds from it. But I think in Finland this is not a stipulation to receiving benefits?  

Unemployment benefit is for 2 years and social security is permanent, although you need to seek benefit each month and in case of social security you need to show that you don't have any other income

We don't actual food program, but in case of alcoholics and other addicts and other people who are determined to be able to handle their finances, benefits are paid as payment tickets that work only to pay food and some other specified stuff and rents are paid directly to the landlords.

There are private charities that get governmental assistance distribute food to poor (or at least people who are willing to wait hour in line to get couple breads, couple cans of pea soup and packet of macaroni and oat meals)

Edited by Elerond
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Theres a lot of similarities: US unemployment is calculated and paid similarly, your "+70% rent" is our Section 8 Housing, we have a food program (SNAP) that only pays for food/groceries type things. But I think a big difference is our use of the term "social security". Here in the US, a % of every check goes into an account called Social Security. Think of it as a government mandated retirement plan. After you retire from work, and depending on the age that you retire, you will then receive monthly funds based on what you paid into the account over your working career. In Finland, "social security" is a government safety net that you can tap into at any time in your life when circumstances dictate.

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12 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Theres a lot of similarities: US unemployment is calculated and paid similarly, your "+70% rent" is our Section 8 Housing, we have a food program (SNAP) that only pays for food/groceries type things. But I think a big difference is our use of the term "social security". Here in the US, a % of every check goes into an account called Social Security. Think of it as a government mandated retirement plan. After you retire from work, and depending on the age that you retire, you will then receive monthly funds based on what you paid into the account over your working career. In Finland, "social security" is a government safety net that you can tap into at any time in your life when circumstances dictate.

We have similar pension contribution system, where 7.15% of your salary is taken and put in pension fund (to pay current pensions) and amount that you contribute before retirement determines how much you get pension when you retire (although there is minimum pension, which is higher than social security and you don't need to apply it for each month, even if you have been freeloader for whole your life). 

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2 hours ago, Amentep said:

Snip

For quite a while now the Democrats just haven't appeared to be very savvy. At least it seems that way to me.

Free games updated 3/4/21

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They never really seem to grasp the warfare aspect of politics.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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17 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

For quite a while now the Democrats just haven't appeared to be very savvy. At least it seems that way to me.

They aren't, but I don't think going after Greene is part of it tbh. With all due respect to Amentep, the "Republicans are hypocrites" has been in rotation for decades and never hits home while Republicans would (and do) say Democrats are trying to "cancel" everyone who isn't lockstep with the radical left gay agenda regardless of what actually happens. 

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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I thought it might have more of a chance to actually penetrate by tying the conspiracy crap to Jan 6 which still seems to have some people shaken, so that could be part of the message carrier.  But I gleefully admit to probably being wrong (although I've thought the Dems and the Repubs are too busy shooting themselves in the foot to really bother much with trying to shoot one another).

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3 hours ago, ShadySands said:

For quite a while now the Democrats just haven't appeared to be very savvy. At least it seems that way to me.

Republicans are just all around better gamers.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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2 hours ago, Malcador said:

They never really seem to grasp the warfare aspect of politics.

am not sure if such is a fair description, but from a practical pov it probable don't make a difference if democrats know how to plan strategic and tactical. the issue we see is that you are dealing with a polarized "they." democrats and republicans is suffering similar problems insofar as their parties is not unified. understatement. am unable to tell you what is core republican values as o' today and is not much better for democrats. pelosi, schiff and schumer, to name a few, is not dumb, but you got a deeply divided caucus and is tough to draw from sun tzu and clausewitz when every decision is a compromise 'tween wildly disparate pov.

am recalling a minivan our folks bought when we were in high school. both parents hated that van. the reason they bought the damn minivan is precise 'cause they both disliked it. mom and dad couldn't agree to purchase a vehicle one o' 'em liked, so they purchased a vehicle neither liked but were nevertheless functional... cause that were a fair resolution?

2021 democrats is far less simpatico than were our parents, so am thinking for the near future we gotta assume democrat compromises is gonna continue to be fugly. 

and as we noted, is as bad and likely worse for republicans. mitch may be an ammonal opportunist, but he ain't stupid. kevin mccarthy may not be the historic smartest minority leader o' the house (again with the understatement) but he ain't as much o' a fool as circumstances make him appear to be. 145 house republicans in a secret ballot voted to not move against liz cheney in spite o' very public calls from the mouthy trumpers in Congress to remove her from a leadership role. converse, public votes to impeach trump after the attack at the capitol garners less than a dozen. the republican caucus is painful divided and endemic cowardice/pragmatism has 'em saying stuff public which many clear do not believe out o' fear o' antagonizing the base. house members, far more than senators, is constant running for reelection. 

democracy is ugly even if is better than the alternatives.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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https://apnews.com/article/legislature-legislation-local-governments-nevada-economy-2fa79128a7bf41073c1e9102e8a0e5f0

"Democratic Gov. Steve Sisolak announced a plan to launch so-called Innovation Zones in Nevada to jumpstart the state’s economy by attracting technology firms, Las Vegas Review-Journal reported Wednesday.

The zones would permit companies with large areas of land to form governments carrying the same authority as counties, including the ability to impose taxes, form school districts and courts and provide government services."

The cyberpunk genre was a manual to some 😛

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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y'know, if at least the company town stuff were the realm o' science fiction you might be able to excuse nevada. unfortunate, multiple somebodies didn't pay attention in class when teachers were talking 'bout the late 19th and early 20th century coal wars. teddy roosevelt had to step in in 1902(?) to stop what looked like a looming class war.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/minewars-coalcamps/

there were kinda a sea change with the passage o' the national industrial recovery act o' 1933, which made massive unionization efforts possible. even so, it took more than a decade for the government to dismantle the worst excesses made possible by the company town model. 

am knowing this stuff were 100 years in the past, but the kinda necromantic stoopid by nevada is exact why we teach history in schools, no?

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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3 hours ago, Amentep said:

My dad grew up in a company owned coal camp. Seems an odd idea to ressurect.

 

agree, but as odd as it seems, is not unreasonable if you ignore the lessons o' history.  if you are nevada, how do you compete with texas and their tax friendly scheme? looking ahead, how do you compete with shanghai? 

sure, the problems won't start with a self-contained future intel campus in sparks, nevada, or at least it won't be noticeable. the stem employees got too much personal leverage and automation will increasingly handle the grunt work, but there will be less educated employees being exploited amazon style. all those menial job folks working in the company towns/counties who is insta interchangeable with thousands o' other unemployed service workers will be having zero power. count on big business to look out for such persons?  

'course tech is looking ahead. problem is too few is looking behind. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Seditionaries: FBI net closes on Maga mob that stormed the Capitol (msn.com)

His lawyers have offered him up as a witness during Trump’s trial. They say Chansley, who faces six charges including civil disorder, used to be “horrendously smitten” by Trump but now feels betrayed by him. They are also likely to use the argument that Chansley was misled by the then US president as a central argument in his own defense.

But Gomez is doubtful that the ploy will prove effective. “I don’t think that’s going to hold water in federal court,” Gomez said. “‘I only robbed that bank because somebody told me to do it’ – I’ve never heard that line working for any crime.”

Hahah this is too good, Trump supporters finally realizing what a Con Job he is, we'll make leftists out of some of them yet (a small % though, the vast majority of Trump Republicans are not revolutionaires, but the demoralized ones who stupidly thought Trump was some kind of savior messiah could come over to our side if we offer them a strong message).

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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Russian Foreign Ministry Is Concerned About Political Persecution in the United States | The Vineyard of the Saker

LOOK AT ME CRITCIZING RUSSIAN GOVERMENT OFFICIALS EVERYONE:

While I respect the big guy in Eurasia, they really need to shut the f up on our domestic politics, they see things a bit different then we do, just like Europeans and Asians see American politics a bit different than Americans see our own politics.  American progressives don't want Trump, we can do better than him.

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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Well.... that didn’t take long H.R. 127

Not that this has a realistic shot of getting out of committee, and even less of going all the way allow me to state for the record f—k your licenses.

Molon Labe 

 

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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lmao

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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

Quote

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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