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Politics US Edition (2021-vol 2)


Amentep

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https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2021/02/mcconnell-slams-marjorie-taylor-greens-loony-lies-and-conspiracy-theories-as-a-cancer-and-she-shoots-back/

McConnell again is doing the right thing and calling out the fake news and offensive comments from Majorie Green 

This is exactly the type of action I expect from the GOP and look forward to its, hopefully, new identity free from Trumpism and the last 4 years of " alternative facts " 

Well done McConnell :thumbsup:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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2 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

Not really. When a “store” was closed in the USSR there was no alternative. Here stores are closing because it’s more convenient to order online and have it shipped to you.
 

This Russia/Soviet union fascination you have is very difficult to understand. For me  at least

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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47 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

This Russia/Soviet union fascination you have is very difficult to understand. For me  at least

Really? I mean it is a 1 dimensional role playing character. Every post circles back to the same thing. It's like a dialogue loop.

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8 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Really? I mean it is a 1 dimensional role playing character. Every post circles back to the same thing. It's like a dialogue loop.

That's most of the people here, so he's in good company.

 

 

Pathetic Westling!

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Biden Plans To Raise Wages For Hundreds Of Thousands Of Workers Without Congress (msn.com)

Anyone who tries to fight this should be shot.. SOVIET STYLE.

I mean I was sincerely shocked to see factory workers making $11/h for overpriced products and no outrage to speak.

There's a lot of really dumb mother****ers in the U.S. and I'm not ashamed to say it.

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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Labor is a widget. And like any other widget it has a value that’s either higher or lower then what’s being paid for it. When you artificially change that value based on nothing more than “I think it should be $15” it drives up the cost of everything that comes after. That $15 minimum wage is not going to be paid by employers. It will be paid by consumers. The end-user pays all costs. Or maybe they won’t. Maybe they’ll decide they don’t want  pay $20 for a hamburger or something. 
 

in the meantime I think I’m going to invest in companies that make automated sales kiosks and robot hamburger flippers

 

in all actuality I really don’t care. I enjoy discussing it because discussions are enjoyable. But I’m not really invested in the outcome anymore. The economic arguments have been heard and rejected. Sound financial management lost. On one hand I almost almost like to see Biden go absolutely hogwild just to see what the outcome would be. Knowing it would only affect me minimally. 

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Labor is a widget. And like any other widget it has a value that’s either higher or lower then what’s being paid for it. When you artificially change that value based on nothing more than “I think it should be $15” it drives up the cost of everything that comes after. That $15 minimum wage is not going to be paid by employers. It will be paid by consumers. The end-user pays all costs. Or maybe they won’t. Maybe they’ll decide they don’t want  pay $20 for a hamburger or something. 
 

in the meantime I think I’m going to invest in companies that make automated sales kiosks and robot hamburger flippers

 

in all actuality I really don’t care. I enjoy discussing it because discussions are enjoyable. But I’m not really invested in the outcome anymore. The economic arguments have been heard and rejected. Sound financial management lost. On one hand I almost almost like to see Biden go absolutely hogwild just to see what the outcome would be. Knowing it would only affect me minimally. 

That got me thinking about how much burgers have changed in cost: https://www.insider.com/fast-food-burgers-cost-every-year-2018-9#in-2018-your-burger-costs-an-average-of-264-25

Here's the thing, the end use may pay all the costs, but the workers rarely see the profits from those widgets. Fast food companies make too much money not to keep up with a basic cost of living increase for their employees. 

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3 minutes ago, Elerond said:

$20 sound bit scare tale considering that hamburger in McDonalds in FInland cost at most $11 and McDonalds workers have $15.65 per hour salary here and we have 24% VAT

I just threw that number out for arguments sake. I have done no research on this at all. Like I said I don’t really care. I don’t eat that trash anyway. And the truth is I consume very little in terms of buying things.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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30 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

That got me thinking about how much burgers have changed in cost: https://www.insider.com/fast-food-burgers-cost-every-year-2018-9#in-2018-your-burger-costs-an-average-of-264-25

Here's the thing, the end use may pay all the costs, but the workers rarely see the profits from those widgets. Fast food companies make too much money not to keep up with a basic cost of living increase for their employees. 

Fast foods in terms of their flag ship corporations are doing quite well. However individual franchisees the people who actually pay the burger flipper and order taker generally are barely scraping by. If you owned four or five McDonald’s you’re probably earning a decent living off of them. If you own one you’re likely not doing a lot better than you were a store manager assuming that’s not you also

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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14 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

The end-user pays all costs. Or maybe they won’t.

I love the confidence :)

The owner certainly has the option to pass the cost on to the consumer, but at some point the consumer won't want to pay more. At which point they will look for alternatives. Those alternatives could be a hamburger from somewhere else, a hot dog at home, or new found passion for fruit from the local farmer's market. If the owner wants the customer to buy their hamburger they will have to find ways to keep their prices competitive.

All that to say, sometimes the end-user pays all the cost, but not always. My guess is that won't be the case here. This is another one of those situations where "ceteris paribus" probably works against the argument

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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15 minutes ago, Achilles said:

I love the confidence :)

The owner certainly has the option to pass the cost on to the consumer, but at some point the consumer won't want to pay more. At which point they will look for alternatives. Those alternatives could be a hamburger from somewhere else, a hot dog at home, or new found passion for fruit from the local farmer's market. If the owner wants the customer to buy their hamburger they will have to find ways to keep their prices competitive.

All that to say, sometimes the end-user pays all the cost, but not always. My guess is that won't be the case here. This is another one of those situations where "ceteris paribus" probably works against the argument

Too keep prices competitive they will have to lower costs. The “average” profit margin for a business to be considered profitable in the US is 10%. IMO that is one bad month away from being broke but that is where many are. In fast food for example according to Upserve is 6-9% by franchise. In most franchise businesses they are compelled to buy materials and expenables from the parent company. So that price cannot be cut (by the franchisees at least). They cannot cut the cost of utility use and you KNOW the municipality and state are not going to cut them a break on taxes to deal with their new labor cost. Where does the cost cut come from? Labor of course. You retool with computer sales kiosks or automate the cooking process somewhat. If the cost of labor doubles then you do with less labor to maintain the status quo. Or pass the cost on to the consumer. Neither option is particularly good. Glad I don’t have to choose. 

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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This is one of those good news good news stories. More and more of the auto makers are going to be producing electric vehicles rather than internal combustion vehicles. For the folks that want that product that means competition will soon before seeing price is lower. There’s the first good news. For those of us who have recently purchased a internal combustion vehicle and will not give it up (ever) that’s also good news because the price of gasoline will be going down due to decreased demand. And for those who think this is going to be a big win for the environment I will just say “bless your heart“ and not trouble you with explanations about how electricity is actually created in most of the electric grids in the United States.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gasoline-is-becoming-worthless-210636353.html

 

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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48 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

 For those of us who have recently purchased a internal combustion vehicle and will not give it up (ever) that’s also good news because the price of gasoline will be going down due to decreased demand.

Or they can just cut back production, lay off a few thousand workers, close down production facilities -- and keep prices and profit margins the same (or better!). It's called a cartel for a reason. I think it's strange that you're thinking you won't be affected by the greed of oilmen in the same page that you declared that the end user always ends up getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop.

I generally agree with you on the hamburgers thing, btw. The viability of their business model is predicated on paying peanuts to workers. That doesn't mean regs are bad. I for one am not looking forward to a 1800s-era job landscape where I have to pull 16-hour work days because labor has been determined by the "free market" to be worth nothing so I need 3 jobs to make ends meet. Much as you hate to hear it, it's workers rights preventing semi-slavery business models from being a thing anymore -in the West- not the invisible hand or markets magically deciding that they aren't competitive. If enforcing that means a handful of fast food chains have to go the way of the dodo... tough. The alternative is much worse.

And speaking of electric cars, Ol' Musky is now the richest man in the world. Surely his insane climb in net worth since the election has nothing to do with a new, green-friendly administration and Congress boosting the value of his business. Gotta love self-made men and "free" markets.

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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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51 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

This is one of those good news good news stories. More and more of the auto makers are going to be producing electric vehicles rather than internal combustion vehicles. For the folks that want that product that means competition will soon before seeing price is lower. There’s the first good news. For those of us who have recently purchased a internal combustion vehicle and will not give it up (ever) that’s also good news because the price of gasoline will be going down due to decreased demand. And for those who think this is going to be a big win for the environment I will just say “bless your heart“ and not trouble you with explanations about how electricity is actually created in most of the electric grids in the United States.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gasoline-is-becoming-worthless-210636353.html

 

While you guys are far behind the rest of the developed world, due to self inflicted idiocy, the sources of electricity generation are slowly and inexorably changing:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Electricity_production_by_source,_EU-27,_2019_(%).png

 

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14 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Or they can just cut back production, lay off a few thousand workers, close down production facilities -- and keep prices and profit margins the same (or better!). It's called a cartel for a reason. I think it's strange that you're thinking you won't be affected by the greed of oilmen in the same page that you declared that the end user always ends up getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop.

I generally agree with you on the hamburgers thing, btw. The viability of their business model is predicated on paying peanuts to workers. That doesn't mean regs are bad. I for one am not looking forward to a 1800s-era job landscape where I have to pull 16-hour work days because labor has been determined by the "free market" to be worth nothing so I need 3 jobs to make ends meet. Much as you hate to hear it, it's workers rights preventing semi-slavery business models from being a thing anymore -in the West- not the invisible hand or markets magically deciding that they aren't competitive. If enforcing that means a handful of fast food chains have to go the way of the dodo... tough. The alternative is much worse.

And speaking of electric cars, Ol' Musky is now the richest man in the world. Surely his insane climb in net worth since the election has nothing to do with a new, green-friendly administration and Congress boosting the value of his business. Gotta love self-made men and "free" markets.


you know what I love about the Simpsons? There is no comment to ever appear on this board that does not remind you of a clip! 😂

lighter regulations certainly doesn’t mean no regulation. Also I’m not arguing that raising minimum-wage is a bad thing per se. Like I said I really don’t care. Philosophically speaking it’s wrongheaded but as Achilles is keen to point out textbook logic doesn’t apply well to real world most of the time. But I am saying raising minimum-wage artificially is going to come at a cost and that’s something a lot of people are not considering. Whether things will be better or worse afterwards is debatable.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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5 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

While you guys are far behind the rest of the developed world, due to self inflicted idiocy, the sources of electricity generation are slowly and inexorably changing:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Electricity_production_by_source,_EU-27,_2019_(%).png

 

Glad to hear that. The last nuclear plant built in the United States was in the 80s if I remember correctly. To me that is just a no-brainer when it comes to electricity production. Coal is bad and unsustainable long term. Solar power is a pipe dream in on large scale‘s would be less environmentally friendly than coal for reasons I have discussed here at length. Wind in geothermal have local potential. Ditto for kinetic energy creation like tide and water. But to produce electricity cleanly and on a mass scale you cannot beat nuclear.

But try to build a nuclear plant in the United States right now and people will look at you like you want to poison children.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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@Guard Dog While I tend to agree... actually nuclear is not very well regarded in Europe either. There's like 2 new nuclear power plants being built in all of the EU, so a comparable number to the US, if I'm not mistaken. With Germany's pledge to phase out nuclear power by yesterday, the net balance is probably negative.

Edited by 213374U

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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7 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

But try to build a nuclear plant in the United States right now and people will look at you like you want to poison children.

Hell, weve been trying to build a telescope since 2014 but protests about "ancestral bones" keep screwing everything up. Dem bones are everywhere! Right now, somewhere between my ass and the core of the Earth, someones ancestral bones are being disrespected. :lol:

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6 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Glad to hear that. The last nuclear plant built in the United States was in the 80s if I remember correctly. To me that is just a no-brainer when it comes to electricity production. Coal is bad and unsustainable long term. Solar power is a pipe dream in on large scale‘s would be less environmentally friendly than coal for reasons I have discussed here at length. Wind in geothermal have local potential. Ditto for kinetic energy creation like tide and water. But to produce electricity cleanly and on a mass scale you cannot beat nuclear.

But try to build a nuclear plant in the United States right now and people will look at you like you want to poison children.

There's at least one Nuclear expansion going on in the US.  Plant Vogtle has a long gestating (and not non-controversial) addition of two units that started in 2013, with tentative commision dates in 2021.

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10 minutes ago, Amentep said:

 

There's at least one Nuclear expansion going on in the US.  Plant Vogtle has a long gestating (and not non-controversial) addition of two units that started in 2013, with tentative commision dates in 2021.

That’s cool I didn’t know about that

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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