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Politics US Edition (2021-vol 2)


Amentep

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4 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

75+ million people voted for Trump, so I don't see why you would need to wait until 2022 to find people calling it a mistake. 

Good luck finding anyone who voted for Biden that would want Trump instead, though. Ain't nobody gonna miss those potus tweets. 

Well of course I did not mean the people who voted for Trump. How would that even work? Regretting not voting for Trump when you did vote for him? 

And I'm pretty sure there would be people saying "I would take Trump tweets over this ****".

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15 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Comparing what one business in one industry does to another business in a different industry does is not even an apples and oranges comparison

I wasn't. I'm pretty sure that both Chipotle and In-n-Out either pay their employees $15 hour or close to it. Neither one seems to be suffering for it.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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3 hours ago, Achilles said:

I wasn't. I'm pretty sure that both Chipotle and In-n-Out either pay their employees $15 hour or close to it. Neither one seems to be suffering for it.

OK, it’s great that their business model allows them to do that. What happens to the businesses who are operating on thinner margins? There are a couple of grocery store chains in Long Beach California that are closing stores because of a mandated four dollar an hour increase in wages by the city. The problem is those stores are operating on a 1 to 2% margin and the increase in worker salary puts them into the red. Businesses do not have an obligation to operate at a loss because the “government “ at any level sets an arbitrary price on their labor.  They’re going to make adjustments. Like I said before which is preferable eight employees making $10 an hour or five employees making $15 an hour? These are the kind of choices are going to be made. Aldis  for example pays their teams more than $15 now. But they never have more than four employees on shift at any time. They also cut expenses another innovative ways. Like selling generic and somewhat lower quality merchandise. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not but it’s a thing. My whole point being adjusting wage levels arbitrarily is not going to maintain the status quo. Things are going to be different afterwards. There will be fewer people working. Prices are going to go up, service is going to go down, and everyone has to decide whether the juice is worth the squeeze.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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15 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I'm betting that at the end of 2022 tops people will be saying that voting Trump out of his second term was a mistake.

I am reluctant to believe  that the Biden presidency will be more worse than good....but the focus must be on the pandemic because I am unclear on the Democrat  policies after that ....

What  would your concerns be for that type of outcome, I am happy with unlikely outcomes ?

8 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

 

 

I bet by the end of 2022 things will get really ugly again but Trump is not the answer/antidote.  I mean we do need real leadership that tackles the big picture but Trump is/was definitely not the right person for the job.  Bit of a glitzy con artist.

Comrade you not helping with the whole objective of " uniting the USA " . You have never liked Trump which is your prerogative but maybe try not to make assumptions about his supporters if you want to reach out to Trump supporters?

Things will only get ugly if the Democrats decide to ignore the preferred way of bipartisan support for new policies and rules . Its good to now reach out  to the normal GOP members and look for ways to work together ? 

Never forget Trump came to existence due to unhappiness many Americans felt with the reality of the USA and how core values and things that matter to culture seemed to be criticized. I wonder if anyone cares about this lesson?

The last thing we want is you liberals to create another Trump monster  

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

OK, it’s great that their business model allows them to do that. What happens to the businesses who are operating on thinner margins? There are a couple of grocery store chains in Long Beach California that are closing stores because of a mandated four dollar an hour increase in wages by the city. The problem is those stores are operating on a 1 to 2% margin and the increase in worker salary puts them into the red. Businesses do not have an obligation to operate at a loss because the “government “ at any level sets an arbitrary price on their labor.  They’re going to make adjustments. Like I said before which is preferable eight employees making $10 an hour or five employees making $15 an hour? These are the kind of choices are going to be made. Aldis  for example pays their teams more than $15 now. But they never have more than four employees on shift at any time. They also cut expenses another innovative ways. Like selling generic and somewhat lower quality merchandise. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not but it’s a thing. My whole point being adjusting wage levels arbitrarily is not going to maintain the status quo. Things are going to be different afterwards. There will be fewer people working. Prices are going to go up, service is going to go down, and everyone has to decide whether the juice is worth the squeeze.

Store that operates with 1-2% margin is already in financial trouble and will most likely go in bankruptcy year or two as most likely inflation will eat their margin faster then they can get it back.

In most businesses that use minimum wage workers, workers salary isn't usually  in their top 2/3 expenditures, which is why businesses using minimum wage, margins don't usually decrease when there is increase increase in minimum wage, as they sell services that other business depend on or they sell services also to those minimum wage workers (meaning that people that buy stuff from shops restaurants, etc. have more money to spend, which brings more cash in than wage increase takes out) and any of their competition doesn't get advantage as increase in the workers wage concerns all the minimum wage workers, meaning that business are able to increase their prices to other business without fearing competition that much. 

  

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24 minutes ago, BruceVC said:
16 hours ago, Skarpen said:

 

I am reluctant to believe  that the Biden presidency will be more worse than good....but the focus must be on the pandemic because I am unclear on the Democrat  policies after that ....

What  would your concerns be for that type of outcome, I am happy with unlikely outcomes ?

Well Biden already annouced that there will be nothing new added or changed to coronavirus policies tossing out of the window the whole "Trump botched" the pandemic response narrative. Because if nothing will change or nothing needs to be added then either Trump administration did everything right or Democrats have nothing better in stock. The only new thing is double/tripple masking that Fauci came up with. Which is weak sauce.

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45 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Store that operates with 1-2% margin is already in financial trouble and will most likely go in bankruptcy year or two as most likely inflation will eat their margin faster then they can get it back.

In most businesses that use minimum wage workers, workers salary isn't usually  in their top 2/3 expenditures, which is why businesses using minimum wage, margins don't usually decrease when there is increase increase in minimum wage, as they sell services that other business depend on or they sell services also to those minimum wage workers (meaning that people that buy stuff from shops restaurants, etc. have more money to spend, which brings more cash in than wage increase takes out) and any of their competition doesn't get advantage as increase in the workers wage concerns all the minimum wage workers, meaning that business are able to increase their prices to other business without fearing competition that much. 

  


so you agree that in the end all costs are passed on to the end-user in terms of cost increases. So If the price of services that rely on minimum wage labor are increased with the minimum wage the buying power of the laborers stays about the same. So despite getting a nice pay raise they’re not able to consume at a higher level than they were previously.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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GOP still riding with the QAnon nutter, good stuff.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 minute ago, Skarpen said:

Well Biden already annouced that there will be nothing new added or changed to coronavirus policies tossing out of the window the whole "Trump botched" the pandemic response narrative. Because if nothing will change or nothing needs to be added then either Trump administration did everything right or Democrats have nothing better in stock. The only new thing is double/tripple masking that Fauci came up with. Which is weak sauce.

Interesting concern, I hear you but I cant think of anything more important than the ending of the pandemic. But I cant imagine it taking more than 2 years ?

I dont think we should say that the real reason the Trump presidency failed to address the virus spread was Trumps failure at understanding the virus because he never mentioned or suggested he was a scientist.... I am surprised people took what he said about the virus as truthful or credible? 

The Republican governors from the various states I believe need to take the full responsibility for opening all their states to try to stimulate the US economy.  I get this, everyone gets this and we want the US markets to come back online in a more meaningful way 

But how could all the Governors open all the prosperous southern states like Georgia, Florida, Texas , Alabama and New Mexico but not implement one best practice rule....not one. They also refused to enforce masks and said things like " we trust our citizens to do the right thing and be responsible " , I remember Ron DeSantis saying that.

Anyway the point being the Governors are suppose to be the people who understand and care about the wellbeing of the state....so  surly that must take responsibility for not enforcing the obvious virus prevention steps ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:


so you agree that in the end all costs are passed on to the end-user in terms of cost increases. So If the price of services that rely on minimum wage labor are increased with the minimum wage the buying power of the laborers stays about the same. So despite getting a nice pay raise they’re not able to consume at a higher level than they were previously.

In the US specifically raising minimum wage on its own is a limited measure, because of extreme deregulation and general government opposition to unions, especially from the GOP. Still, raising wages stimulates spending, and hence the economy. It's not like inflation and high interest rates are problem these days.

Wage growth in the US has been decoupled from productivity, and this is mostly a result of deregulation and the economic policies espoused by the two center right and right parties in the US.

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

The moderate left wing that formed in the center right party in the past 20 years has failed to make any headway with this, mostly due to disinformation and lack of support in their own party, plus an archaic government system that is beginning to require some real amendments for it to even moderately function in any way. The slow turning of the constitution into infallible dogma, has made any such change very unlikely.

 

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4 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

In the US specifically raising minimum wage on its own is a limited measure, because of extreme deregulation and general government opposition to unions, especially from the GOP. Still, raising wages stimulates spending, and hence the economy. It's not like inflation and high interest rates are problem these days.

Wage growth in the US has been decoupled from productivity, and this is mostly a result of deregulation and the economic policies espoused by the two center right and right parties in the US.

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

The moderate left wing that formed in the center right party in the past 20 years has failed to make any headway with this, mostly due to disinformation and lack of support in their own party, plus an archaic government system that is beginning to require some real amendments for it to even moderately function in any way. The slow turning of the constitution into infallible dogma, has made any such change very unlikely.

 

I disagree that the government has been unfriendly towards unions. They still enjoy a considerable amount of protection. In fact you might say I am pro union but I am also pro “right to work“. I think unions have something to offer but they should not be compulsory

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:


so you agree that in the end all costs are passed on to the end-user in terms of cost increases. So If the price of services that rely on minimum wage labor are increased with the minimum wage the buying power of the laborers stays about the same. So despite getting a nice pay raise they’re not able to consume at a higher level than they were previously.

It depends on business, most of that cost increase goes to other business with employees with higher wages and markets where there has not been changes so lots of that cost would most likely be compensated by not giving raises in salaries to said employees with higher salaries. And as almost all minimal wage workers spend all their salary just get by, even if it is increased to $15, end result of such increase would be that it will for short while stimulate economy by cutting amount money that middle class workers can save and move it back to circulation and therefore increasing profits of top 10%, from where that money will of course trickle down 😉

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12 hours ago, Skarpen said:

And I'm pretty sure there would be people saying "I would take Trump tweets over this ****".

Alien anal probes? Full frontal lobotomy? COVID-19 nasal tests by a sadist nurse? Yeah I probably would.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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I wonder if we will ever again come to a time when such a thing could happen as this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/04/jackie-kennedy-white-house-visit

Edited by Guard Dog
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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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not that anybody asked our opinion, but am against punishing marjorie taylor greene by a house vote. mtg is a nut and a dangerous nut at that. am not gonna run down the list o' all the lies she has told... too many. mtg should not be a member o' Congress, but she ain't the first dangerous loon we has had as a member o' the house o' representatives or senate, and she won't be the last. 

so assume mtg is kicked off o' Congressional committees (or worse) by democrat votes and ask selves what happens when republicans win back the house. under harry reid and obama, democrats removed filibuster rules for Presidential appointments save for SCOTUS. sure enough, when the republicans got control o' senate and had a republican President, they went crazy with appointments, many o' whom were demonstrably unqualified. didn't stop there neither as the SCOTUS filibuster rules were changed. the reason you got acb on the Court is 'cause democrats refused to consider the consequences o' changes to filibuster. predictable. were all so predictable. similar predictable is republicans looking for payback if mgt is punished.

mtg deserves punishment. republicans shoulda' done so. however, what is arguable a reasonable and justified action by Congress to punish a member for behavior unbecoming a member o' the House needs be viewed from a perspective two, four or six years in the future. consider that ilhan omar and rashida tlaib has made comments which were at best ill-advised and arguable bigoted. tell us mtg comments ain't same as squad member nuttery and you are preaching to the choir, but when the opposition party gets control, they ain't gonna be concerned with fairness. 

btw, am not suggesting members o' Congress should be free to say and do anything w/o any possibility o' punishment by the house or senate. however, am not gonna chase anybody down the proverbial rabbit hole. Congress has had too many foolish, unhinged and even dangerous members. the thing is, the behaviour being punished need be so egregious that we ain't having this discussion. 

mtg deserves punishment, but if you doubt for even an instant the inevitable day o' reckoning once republicans take back the house, you are being as obtuse as all those qanon dopes. convince us mtg should be given the option o' "crossing the desert" the entire distance 'tween the capitol and wh if she wanna keep her office and committee seats? you win. we agree. unfortunate, in a few short years, is gonna be republicans with the paddles and are you telling us you are comfortable with relying on their restraint and wisdom?

HA! Good Fun!

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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8 hours ago, rjshae said:

Alien anal probes? Full frontal lobotomy? COVID-19 nasal tests by a sadist nurse? Yeah I probably would.

Not sure about aliens, lobotomies or nasal sadism, but the rest of what you said is already happening:

China Is Using Anal Swabs to Test for Coronavirus—Here's What Experts Think

 

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“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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20 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

image.gif.ba6e108ca94d1e6ef486a9d50e4425d8.gif

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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Remove minimum wage entirely, increase unemployment benefit and social security and then leave it for market to decide what is correct minimum wage to get people come to work instead staying home reaping the benefits.

That is how it is done here in Communist Finland, where US system is seen as the capitalist dream

😋

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33 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Remove minimum wage entirely, increase unemployment benefit and social security and then leave it for market to decide what is correct minimum wage to get people come to work instead staying home reaping the benefits.

That is how it is done here in Communist Finland, where US system is seen as the capitalist dream

😋

That's dumb.  I'd rather the state set the minimum wage and also provide employment to the unemployed when certain private sectors decide they're too backwards to handle the wages and go bust.

Also what you're describing doesn't sound anything like Communism but a welfare state.

Big difference.

Edited by ComradeMaster

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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12 hours ago, Gromnir said:

mtg deserves punishment. republicans shoulda' done so.

I gotta admit, this is the bit I don't understand from the Democrats; failure to act by the Republicans could have been used against them without penalty from the Dems it'd seem to me(something like 'the Republican party says it rejects they type of conspiracy theories that led to January 6 at the Capitol, but when a conspiracy theorist in their party was elected to Congress, they rallied around her!  We urged them to act, but they chose to do nothing" etc, etc), but by removing Taylor-Green from her committees, they've handed the Republicans the narrative that the Dems want to disenfranchise voters on a platter ("we may all agree that MTG was out there, but how soon before the Dems declare your views and values as unworthy of their government halls...?")

Maybe its just me?

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33 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

That's dumb.  I'd rather the state set the minimum wage and also provide employment to the unemployed 

Doing what? I don’t think turning them all into cops is a good idea and the drivers license office is crowded enough as it is for its limited productivity. And besides Only about a third of the 50 states are financially solvent enough to add workers like that 

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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