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[bugarup]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:13 PM, majestic said:

I'm surprised that DA2 gets so much hate here. With how contratian this board usually is I'd expect people defending it a bit more. It was fairly okay for an interactive cave simulator.

I was a bit salty when I finished it for the second time and realized that nothing what you do matters at all (the game is good in creating illusion of possible choice so if you only play once you totes get duped), but liked it way better than this huge dull single player MMORPG, "Inquisition". Like, sure, DA2 had plenty of stupid story bits, but so had "Inquisition", but at least DA2 didn't use that old tired world saving hero formula that "Inquisition" embraced with glee (and singing at the PC. Oh the cringe ), and even with all those waves upon waves of paratrooper mooks DA2 had fewer trash fights than DAI. 

Oh, and to be moar of a contrarian, female Hawke sucks. Dude VA so much better.

[majestic]

19 minutes ago, bugarup said:

I was a bit salty when I finished it for the second time and realized that nothing what you do matters at all (the game is good in creating illusion of possible choice so if you only play once you totes get duped), but liked it way better than this huge dull single player MMORPG, "Inquisition". Like, sure, DA2 had plenty of stupid story bits, but so had "Inquisition", but at least DA2 didn't use that old tired world saving hero formula that "Inquisition" embraced with glee (and singing at the PC. Oh the cringe ), and even with all those waves upon waves of paratrooper mooks DA2 had fewer trash fights than DAI. 

Oh, and to be moar of a contrarian, female Hawke sucks. Dude VA so much better.

I liked exploring Elven ruins in DA:I and figuring out what happened. It's what I liked most about the Dragon Age games, exploring Thedas. I don't care for the combat of any of the three installments. They're all various degrees of serviceable, sometimes okay, sometimes annoying, and in the case of Inquisition occasionally hilarious like when you one-shot a dragon, but were, for me, never the reason to play them.

 

[bugarup]

49 minutes ago, majestic said:

 hilarious like when you one-shot a dragon

One of the fighter trees in the DLC had the roll ability that was bugged when I played it (something like 5x damage instead of 5+ and the character was invincible when rolling). So my dragon tactics consisted of retraining my three fighters into that tree and rolling on the dragon until it died.

Yeah, okay, that game did have its moments.

[MrBrown]

14 hours ago, Keyrock said:

 This also made strategic group formation essentially meaningless. There was no way to set up a meat shield wall to protect your squishy members when enemies would just spawn behind you.

You had to use the threat/taunt mechanics for that, not positioning as much.

I played DA2 on the highest difficulty without using a mage or healing potions. The DLC were a bit tougher, had to use healing potions in those.

[MrBrown]

12 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

I say it every time the subject comes up but ME2 was simply awful from a narrative perspective and the only thing which moved the story forward significantly was locked away in the last DLC. Apart from the companions 95% of ME2 might as well have not happened so far as overarching plot was concerned.

So, just like Baldur's Gate 2, one of their more popular games?

[Skarpen]

14 minutes ago, MrBrown said:

So, just like Baldur's Gate 2, one of their more popular games?

Huh? None of this applies to BG2. Did you even played those games?

[Hawke64]

On 12/5/2020 at 4:13 AM, majestic said:

I'm surprised that DA2 gets so much hate here. With how contratian this board usually is I'd expect people defending it a bit more. It was fairly okay for an interactive cave simulator.

My only complaints would be the dialogue wheel and the voiced PC (the intonation icons were somehow useful). Also, if I'm not mistaken, it is the only game that allows to see a city changing through several years.
And there was something oddly satisfying in slaughtering bigots without forming alliances in order to do so; just you, your party and a pile of corpses-to-become. PoEII and Tyranny allowed it (to reach the ending with you party only, that is), but they did not include attempting to destroy a large organization built on institutionalized discrimination (PoE1 did have Thaos, though). In retrospective, DA probably had too much mandatory combat, I suppose.

I think, ME3 added the option to shoot the glowing hologram in the face in one of last patches. It led to a pretty grim ending, but it was possible, nonetheless.

---

To stay on topic, Haven, "from the creators of Furi. An adventure about love and freedom". Available on Steam and GOG. I've tried the demo, it was nice, but nothing like Furi.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hawke64

[213374U]

43 minutes ago, Hawke64 said:

I think, ME3 added the option to shoot the glowing hologram in the face in one of last patches. It led to a pretty grim ending, but it was possible, nonetheless.

To me that felt like a belated "**** you" to critics. It focused on the complete and utter failure that was not accepting the RGB options. You die, everyone you know also dies, and fifty thousand years down the line someone will make the right decision anyway, meaning all of those deaths were for nothing. It made it abundantly clear that the story was ultimately the writers' and not the player's. Their vaunted "creative integrity" took precedence. A position which I'd otherwise defend if the result wasn't so... lackluster.

I wasn't excessively bothered by the endings, pre- or post- Extended Cut. I thought the story was inadequately developed by that point and as a consequence the ending felt abrupt and unsatisfactory. But it didn't affect my overall enjoyment of the game, let alone the trilogy. The "reject" ending though -- that felt like writers doubling down on their inability to escape the narrative corner they had painted themselves into.

Edited December 6, 2020 by 213374U

[MrBrown]

I never had that much problems with ME3s ending.

My big problem with the game was that most of the individual quest storylines were very much the same as they were in ME2. You went to mostly the same places, and people still had the same problems. So it was just boring.

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, MrBrown said:

So, just like Baldur's Gate 2, one of their more popular games?

To an extent, sure. Ultimately BG2's story did not move the bhaalspawn saga far along its path except in a few respects, and the main plots of BG1/2 were mostly self contained, with BG1 and ToB doing a lot more of the overarching story progression than BG2, same as ME1/3 did more in that series than MW2. The difference are that BG2's main story was, well, good and there was some plot movement and added concepts, while ME2's main story was... vestigial, featured a soylent green fed terminator analogue end boss that made zero sense and what main plot there was was just plain not very good- and near literally the only overarching plot movement came in the final dlc.

Also ToB was definitely rushed and intended to be a full game not an expansion, so a certain amount of plot wobbliness and contrivance (mostly, everyone except Gromnir hapless dopes) was to be expected. Even with that ToB had, more or less, a satisfying conclusion though, with sensible options and while (A)Melissan was not exactly the most brilliant enemy in the world she was far better fleshed out than the reapers were.

[Wormerine]

21 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

ME3 wasn't significantly rushed though. The main complaints about it would not have been fixed by Bioware having more time- the ending/ Starchild was not due to not being given enough time (....)

I say it every time the subject comes up but ME2 was simply awful from a narrative perspective and the only thing which moved the story forward significantly was locked away in the last DLC. Apart from the companions 95% of ME2 might as well have not happened so far as overarching plot was concerned. That was the fundamental problem with ME3, it had to do everything plot wise and there was no practical foundation laid by the previous game. The things people complained about story wise would have been far better received if they hadn't come out of the blue but been set up previously. The 'traffic light' ending was almost identical to the end choices in Deus Ex, and they were well received there.

I don’t know how well research Raycevick’s content, is but he does paint a grim picture of a team having to chew a massive project in a short period of time, with Bioware painfully expanding after being acquired with EA. Content cuts and changes do fit the final project - a nonsensical story, which makes sudden and awkward U turns, while entire narrative threatens to fall apart - the ending was just the final crash site. 

There is so much puzzlingly wrong with ME3 - how poorly directed conversations are, how dialogue system was simplified even further, lack of exploration (which was already a problem in ME2, but at least it had unique sidequests, not the reused multiplayer maps thing), and overall shoddiness and bugginess of the whole thing. Geez you can't even holster the weapon. I replayed all MEs last year, and oh my the third one feels like a cheap knockoff. 

And I disagree about ME2. ME2 has simple set up, but a lot of story. Individual companions expand both the world and the lore, Shepard’s conflict with Cerberus, world altering subjects like Geth, Quarian fleet, Genophage. Actually, one of things I dislike about ME3, is that in attempt to tie up every loose thread, they retread a lot of ME2 again - all of the subject I mentioned are visited again, but... worse. Not to mention, I feel, that Shepard solving each major galactic conflict in one game, because otherwise he won’t get help... really cheapens them. ME2 is not free of contrivance and melodrama, which really buried ME3, but it is still an engaging popcorn flic. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Wormerine

[rjshae]

On 12/4/2020 at 1:13 PM, majestic said:

I'm surprised that DA2 gets so much hate here. With how contratian this board usually is I'd expect people defending it a bit more. It was fairly okay for an interactive cave simulator.

On the whole I enjoyed it. Sure it had some flaws, but it worked.

[Raithe]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:13 PM, majestic said:

I'm surprised that DA2 gets so much hate here. With how contratian this board usually is I'd expect people defending it a bit more. It was fairly okay for an interactive cave simulator.

I have to admit, I like a lot of the concepts and ideas behind DA2.  The story over years, the breaks between chapters, the idea that the city would change depending on your choices...   And then the execution of said ideas happened.  It was.. serviceable, but then didn't really mean much in the long run.

And yes, games re-use assets, it's a thing, and we expect that. But for some reason those rinse-repeat caves were just glaringly obvious and made it feel cheap.

[Oner]

Honestly I'm tempted to put this in the Funny topic for all the burns this garnered. 
"Happy to see?"
"Then Twitch should change it's name, it's offensive to people with epilepsy."
"Can't wait to play Ori and the First Playthrough Forest."
"Ban 'speedrun' for those who are movement impaired."

[Malcador]

Sort of a nothing burger.

[Mamoulian War]

1 hour ago, Oner said:

Honestly I'm tempted to put this in the Funny topic for all the burns this garnered. 
"Happy to see?"
"Then Twitch should change it's name, it's offensive to people with epilepsy."
"Can't wait to play Ori and the First Playthrough Forest."
"Ban 'speedrun' for those who are movement impaired."

You know, even when the actual blind people comment on this one, that "This is the dumbest ****, I've ever witnessed", you know there will be enough entertainment for the next few days...

My favourite quote of the day.

"Now that the 'blind playthrough' battle is won, we must next go for 'short stories', as I have some vertically challenged friends and it's a major concern in their communities."

Edited December 6, 2020 by Mamoulian War

[Melusina]

Most probably Twitch wanted to trow somebody under the buss for social credit.

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I don’t know how well research Raycevick’s content, is but he does paint a grim picture of a team having to chew a massive project in a short period of time, with Bioware painfully expanding after being acquired with EA. Content cuts and changes do fit the final project - a nonsensical story, which makes sudden and awkward U turns, while entire narrative threatens to fall apart - the ending was just the final crash site. 

There is so much puzzlingly wrong with ME3 - how poorly directed conversations are, how dialogue system was simplified even further, lack of exploration (which was already a problem in ME2, but at least it had unique sidequests, not the reused multiplayer maps thing), and overall shoddiness and bugginess of the whole thing. Geez you can't even holster the weapon. I replayed all MEs last year, and oh my the third one feels like a cheap knockoff. 

And I disagree about ME2. ME2 has simple set up, but a lot of story. Individual companions expand both the world and the lore, Shepard’s conflict with Cerberus, world altering subjects like Geth, Quarian fleet, Genophage. Actually, one of things I dislike about ME3, is that in attempt to tie up every loose thread, they retread a lot of ME2 again - all of the subject I mentioned are visited again, but... worse. Not to mention, I feel, that Shepard solving each major galactic conflict in one game, because otherwise he won’t get help... really cheapens them. ME2 is not free of contrivance and melodrama, which really buried ME3, but it is still an engaging popcorn flic. 

There was near exactly the same amount of time between ME1 --> ME2 as ME2 --> ME3 down to the day. Nov 2007, Jan 2010, March 2012; 26 months between games so if ME3 was 'rushed' then logically ME2 was as well.

The size of the narrative job was, er, massive for ME3, but that was mostly due to how little ME2 did. Sure, the companion quests were interesting enough, but they'd have been far far better off dropping a few of them and adding to either the main plot of the game itself or better developing the overarching plot by tying it and the game plot together better. The criticism about ME2 is not that it lacked content, but that it lacked relevant content that advanced the narrative overall. I'd also have to strenuously disagree with the conversation direction if only because every ME2 conversation with Miranda was obsessed with posing her ludicrously to emphasise that Yvonne Strahovski is more than averagely attractive. Retroactively hilarious though, given how woke Bioware is now.

As for the overarching subplot resolutions- Geth/ Quarians, genophage etc- they had to be resolved in ME3. In theory of course they could have been resolved fully in ME2 to give ME3 less to do but they weren't, for good reason; but then ME2 only added more to the stuff that needed resolving in ME3 (ie the big emphasis on Cerberus, lots of recruitables that were left needing resolution). The resolutions of each subplot in ME3- except Cerberus, caught up in the whole endgame mess- were generally well received, and the reaction if they'd been left out would have been at best strongly negative.

It can be argued that ME3 needed more time due to the massive narrative difficulties inherent in tying up the story, but that is equally an argument that ME2 did not do its job properly by leaving too much to be done narratively. If you've resolved nothing in ME2 and only added more then that is part of the problem when complaining that the last game was rushed, and that could have been prevented by cutting some of the peripheral guff from the previous game to streamline things for the sequel. But no, they wanted The Dirty Dozen in space instead...

[Melusina]

Just now, Zoraptor said:

There was near exactly the same amount of time between ME1 --> ME2 as ME2 --> ME3 down to the day. Nov 2007, Jan 2010, March 2012; 26 months between games

You lost me at the end of the quote

[Keyrock]

ME3 gave us the cupcake gag, it earns points for that in my book.

Granted, the person(s) responsible for sending the cupcakes is the real hero.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Keyrock

[Malcador]

Should have fed the homeless.

[majestic]

16 hours ago, Malcador said:

Should have fed the homeless.

Isn't that what Bioware did with the cupcakes? Donate them to charity.

Granted there's better food than cupcakes for that, but still...

[Chilloutman]

Seems like pre-load on GoG for Cyberpunk is up, i didn't expect it today! its 60 GB

Edited December 7, 2020 by Chilloutman

[Raithe]

13 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

Seems like pre-load on GoG for Cyberpunk is up, i didn't expect it today! its 60 GB

Had it started this morning. Now sat happily on the SSD waiting for Thursday....

[Azdeus]

I'm still waiting for my Collectors Edition, don't know when it'll arrive, but I do know I just recieved an bill for it, so no preload for me.