Politics 20/20

[Darkpriest]

42 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I thought this was a pretty solid breakdown of the progress Trump has made, whether you agree with the changes or not: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37982000

So he abandoned ridiculous parts like leaving NATO or allowibg tortures, got blocked by dems on some spending projects, and ballooned debt in 2020 due to corona related issues https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S , while delivering or partially delivering on majority of his promises listed there

[Darkpriest]

2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Your point was about the social freedoms, though, not economic ones, no ? Evil regimes are evil regardless of what ideology they espouse (I guess in past it was what amoral superpower they want to suck up to at the time)

Both actually, and yes I agree evil regimes are evil despite the ideology, even if the ideology seems to be great on paper in supernatural ideal conditions. 

[Darkpriest]

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/BigStory12/idUSKBN27121P

So it seems Twitter will comply and changed their stance. 

[Elerond]

Yes in case that changing stance means that they will add reason for block in tweets in which they have blocked the URL to New York Post article 

[Malcador]

Surprised people think Guthrie was bullying Trump, wasn't as if she were aggressive in her questions.

[Darkpriest]

15 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Yes in case that changing stance means that they will add reason for block in tweets in which they have blocked the URL to New York Post article 

Yes, seems I should have read until the end to the last paragraph with relation of a spoke person, and not just to the Tweet itself. 

Just re-affirms that jumping the gun and not knowing the full context is bad...

 

However, one can and will most likely argue, that this was not a Hack

Edited October 16, 2020 by Darkpriest

[ComradeYellow]

We are not proletarians anymore, we are merely consumers.  Our fight should be against monopoly capitalism and encouraging more market competition.

Also, fighting against a unipolar world run by the U.S. in favor of a multipolar world with Russia, China, and the U.S. competing for influence.

[213374U]

5 hours ago, majestic said:

This is a decidedly authoritarian streak and has nothing to do with the underlying economic system or one's political orientation. Media control (and therefore speech and "thought" policing) happen everywhere, in dictatorships easier than in democracies but even there. The comrades Erdogan, Berlusconi, Putin and Orbán are or were all fairly successful at it.

I believe the logic goes: if they aren't freedom* lovers, that is necessary and sufficient to make them commies. People vigorously argued that Hitler was actually a socialist in these boards, and I'm sure they will again given the cyclical nature of these threads.

 

* unless exercising freedom bothers me personally, in which case, please please state power crush them! (and they were commies abusing freedom anyway, so it's not really authoritarianism, it's just that the boys sometimes get a bit carried away upholding law and order)

When it's the essjaydubyoo hordes defining the boundaries of what's acceptable it's thought policing, but when it's us drawing the line on how far freedom goes, it's just self-evident truth, man.

I used to believe that people were just being dishonest and get angry at these hilarious double standards. Not anymore. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

So he abandoned ridiculous parts like leaving NATO or allowibg tortures, got blocked by dems on some spending projects, and ballooned debt in 2020 due to corona related issues https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S , while delivering or partially delivering on majority of his promises listed there

huh?

abandoned and no progress outnumber delivered, so even if you thought this list were comprehensive and that somehow all promises were equal, trump did not deliver on a majority no matter how you do the math.

republicans had majorities in both houses for the first two years o' trump. no immigration reform. no infrastructure. no repeal and replace. etc. blame democrats for blocking requires willful obtuseness. regardless, art o' the deal guy couldn't find a way to get the job(s) done. period. make excuses for the guy who has magnified partisan divide making compromise near impossible (new nafta being a notable and welcome exception as the democrats stepped up and did what were best for the country as 'posed to making trump squirm,) has us wondering if is you trying to be humorous, yes? when trump made promises he had no way o' knowing democrats would not fall in line with every trump offering? please. blocked by democrats were the expectation when the promises were made, and with both houses o' Congress, such an excuse is pathetic in any event.

trump created debt were massive increasing Before covid. more amnesia. review a few @Guard Dog posts complaining 'bout rampant debt increase pre covid. were actual surprising to us how republicans were so willing to fall in line with trump spending extravagance which mirrored and even exceeded obama's recession spending... w/o a recession. the tax cut, which counts as a promise fulfilled (*snort*) could only pay for itself if 4% or better growth could be maintained for years, and that never happened, not even close.  is example o' why looking at promises insular is so flawed. sure, you got a tax cut which helped rich people and small business owners, but whatever savings ordinary americans saw from the lowering o' taxes were wiped out by higher tariffs imposed during the trade war. worse, massive debt were added which future generations will need pay.  tax cut were a blunder and is inextricable linked to debt.

covid only highlights the stoopidity o' trump's spending spree as three years o' what one would have assumed would be responsible post recession spending decreases from a post cold war republican President woulda' mitigated some o' the pain we will all need bear for trump's brobdingnagian mishandled covid response.  blame debt on covid ignores reality trump were trying to outspend obama before covid and the reason why covid costs is so exorbitant is precise 'cause trump failed to take prudent steps back when he had forewarning o' the impending pandemic. 

oh, and the trump administrations stopped releasing troop deployment numbers in 2017. any pentagon numbers we have seen suggest total deployment is approx same as it were four years ago, a point jonathan swan drove home during his axios interview with the President. interview weren't so long ago. more amnesia?  the only way the bbc can claim as even a partial fulfilled promise is if one takes trump claims 'bout anticipated troop deployments as fact as 'posed to aspirational campaign rhetoric. at this point, why would anybody believe anything trump says w/o evidence backing up claims?

etc.

that said, we will give trump the partial fulfilled promise o' the muslim ban. am still waiting for the self-described trump supporters o' conscience to explain away that promise.

HA! Good Fun!

ps

TV Ratings: Biden Leads Town Hall Duel With Trump in Early Numbers

as noted in the article, the numbers is preliminary and likely to change a bit. even so, am admitting a bit o' surprise. biden has a lead in many/most battleground states and is gonna play cautious. watching biden take the wood-paneled station wagon out for a spin 'round the block at a safe and sane 35 mph is calming and a bit o' a relief when one compares to the alternative, but is predictable. 

trump is not predictable. take a poll o' prospective viewers from before the town halls and ask 'em which candidate would be more likely to make a headline grabbing comment... or two. am betting trump would win such a poll w/o it even being close. trump is not driving the family wagon in the Presidential race 'gainst mr. rogers. trump is always a moment away from a spectacular nascar multi-car conflagration. 

regardless, am genuine surprised biden ratings is better, even if only preliminary.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Gromnir

[Darkpriest]

And there it is, apparently Twietter lifted the ban silently

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-twitter-idUSKBN27121P

And seems Trump's attack dog might have a lot more of stuff about Bidens, and if even half of it is true... Let say, it seems to be some interesting timing. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/new-biden-email-obliterates-burisma-debunking-over-fired-prosecutor-giuliani-teases

 

[Hurlshort]

14 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

And there it is, apparently Twietter lifted the ban silently

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-twitter-idUSKBN27121P

And seems Trump's attack dog might have a lot more of stuff about Bidens, and if even half of it is true... Let say, it seems to be some interesting timing. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/new-biden-email-obliterates-burisma-debunking-over-fired-prosecutor-giuliani-teases

 

Who do you really think this matters to, though? It would seem to just reinforce Trump's supporters beliefs, but I don't see how it sways anyone after all the investigations that Trump has been involved in. You really think one guy is worse than the other here?

I lost faith in the power of the last minute exposure stuff after Trump skated away from the kitty grabbing tapes.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Hurlshot

[Malcador]

Speaking of nepotism, wonder what Kushner's up to.

[Darkpriest]

9 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Who do you really think this matters to, though? It would seem to just reinforce Trump's supporters beliefs, but I don't see how it sways anyone after all the investigations that Trump has been involved in. You really think one guy is worse than the other here?

I lost faith in the power of the last minute exposure stuff after Trump skated away from the kitty grabnimg tapes.

You think it will not be the second Hilary's emails? 

You might need just several thousands in some key swing states to decide the election. 

Trump might be a con man, but the stuff he can be accused of is more abstract to a regular john and jane doe. Biden's case might be easier to spin, especially the corrupt establishment part, and corrupt media and tech industry part. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Darkpriest

[ComradeYellow]

Yeah I don't think anyone outside the Democratic Party diehards takes these "Investigations" seriously.  That's the problem with Party Politics, people get so invested in sponsored narratives who get paid to pump out filth people read that they become far removed from reality.  How about thinking in national terms instead of Party terms?  What's our country gonna do?

[Darkpriest]

5 hours ago, 213374U said:

I believe the logic goes: if they aren't freedom* lovers, that is necessary and sufficient to make them commies. People vigorously argued that Hitler was actually a socialist in these boards, and I'm sure they will again given the cyclical nature of these threads.

 

 

I'll bite this and entertain you. 

The party was called National Socialists. While it wasn't a walfare state or a state owned business and means of production, it was state driven expenditures, but the twisted nature of that socialism, was to tax (rob) other nations of their wealth and provide slaves to a privilaged class of asset owners, which were working and encouraged to build oligopoly/monopoly based economy in close partnership with the state. 

It wasn't really a smith'sonain economy or capitalizm 

[Gromnir]

Susan Collins Backs QAnon Believers

In an interview with Mainer, Redmond said he discovered QAnon in the comments section of Zero Hedge, a far-right, libertarian economics blog notorious for spreading conspiracies. “I was hooked right off the bat,” said Redmond, who now considers himself an investigative journalist. “It was an opportunity to wrestle back control of our government from subvertists and treasonists. … As a veteran, I was called to arms.”

*chuckle*

the bat crap crazies is not the folks who is in play at the moment, and this is not 2016. trump needs sway a considerable number o' old folks and suburban women in more than a couple battleground states. mystery emails consciously ignored by multiple senate investigations showing up in the 11th hour from dubious sources, sources so not like the FBI in 2016, is gonna sway zero hedge, breitbart and qanon flunkies but few others. worse, am suspecting as each new "blockbuster" reveal fails to move the needle, the impulse will be to release more such info which will only serve to make all such 11th hour conspiracy fodder less believable. 

is just so haphazard and desperate. 

looking forward to last debate, which regardless o' weather should have trump sweating even more than he were last night. 

Who Is Kristen Welker, Moderator of the Third Presidential Debate?

will be curious to see what is final rules for the last debate, but trump has zero leverage, much as with his finances. he needs the last debate and biden does not. if welker does live fact checking...

HA! Good Fun!

ps twitter didn't silent change stance. is stories just 'bout everywhere regarding twitter delaying stories which have extreme suspect origins, although is true the time when they changed position were late night. twitter is private owned and if folks paying the bills or general public pressure becomes significant, twitter can change a decision at will as they did. so not like soviet.

 

 

[majestic]

6 hours ago, 213374U said:

I believe the logic goes: if they aren't freedom* lovers, that is necessary and sufficient to make them commies. People vigorously argued that Hitler was actually a socialist in these boards, and I'm sure they will again given the cyclical nature of these threads.

Well, now you've done it. I hope you're happy. 

39 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

The party was called National Socialists.

North Korea is called the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea.

And with that, I'll see myself out of this one. It gets old after 20 years, it's not just a cyclical discussion on this board. It was the same on Interplay's YYOP and before that on Black Isle's YOP.

edit:

Can we have Yrkoon and Crucis back? These threads used to be a lot more entertaining in the past. Does anyone know where they went? Le sigh.

Edited October 16, 2020 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

16 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

@KaineParker

There is a difference in heavy handed enforcment of law (which has flaws and is something to looka at) and order, and authoritarian use of force to vanish people of different opinion. 

And again, it's usually "socialists" driving thought and speech policing. 

And while admitedly these news look borderline dubious, they have more evidence than things like Russians helping Trump to get into the office. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/latest-cache-emails-detail-how-hunter-biden-earned-millions-china-introductions

 

EDIT: Also, company's terms of service cannot be unlawful, and cannot break rights guaranteed by law. There were instances in other countries, where facebook had to reinstate some accounts due to legal actions and they were forced to change terms to fit. 

Again you're weaseling to try and claim it's different when someone you don't like does it, trying to shift by talking about "socialists" (which now presumably includes corporations) thought policing instead of the government's actual policing, and then going on to some conspiracy theory from a guy larping as Brad Pitt's edgelord character from a 90's movie. My dude, stop the cope and just admit you don't care about freedom.

This has been a long day, so I'm going to get drunk and eat buffalo wings instead of posting on this forum. Surprisingly, buffalo wings aren't actually wings from a buffalo. Who could have seen that coming?

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Can we have Yrkoon and Crucis back? These threads used to be a lot more entertaining in the past. Does anyone know where they went? Le sigh.

If only. What happened to Bartimaeus? Seems like he hasn't been around lately either.

[Gromnir]

Adviser: Trump tweet about Afghanistan withdrawal was a wish

even the wh can't seem to agree as to the actual numbers and time frames for troop withdrawals, troop withdrawals which hasn't actual happened so far.

aside:

as much as we mock the trump campaign bag of dirty tricks approach to 2020 with mail fraud nonsense, retweeting conspiracy theories and bold faced lies 'bout everything from covid-19 to wall construction contracts for campaign donors, if you are a complete immoral d-bag and your only concern is winning, then am not at all shocked by what is happening, and dirty tricks silliness will only get worse 'tween now and the election.

the President's illness were a potential game changer, but he wasted that opportunity. done. move on to next option.

alternative: death by a thousand cuts. 

trump needs a hail mary and additional luck, but in the interim he is doing everything to close the gap as much as possible. ordinarily, Presidential campaigns see a narrowing o' gap as election day approaches. such diminution o' the frontrunner lead has been less significant this year, but is still happening particular in a couple battlegrounds. trump campaign is pulling out all the stops 'cause while a hail mary looks unlikely today, it could still occur. at the moment, fractions o' percentage points look insignificant, and is possible trump efforts will only further antagonize suburban women voters, but is too late for trump to do a reset and try and be empathetic or concerned 'bout health care.

be prepared for a whole lotta disinformation and crazy 'tween now and the election, 'cause trump doesn't have legit options available to him to move the needle. covid positivity rates and deaths is trending in the wrong direction and at just the wrong time... as predicted. the acb confirmation won't affect the election 'cause will happen before the election, but it has given democrats a national platform 'pon which to drive home the real threats to roe, griswold, obergefell and even loving, not to mention the health care o' millions o' americans. even fox is barely mentioning the multiple democrat cities which has been s'posed on fire for months. *snort* best trump can come up with is conspiracy theories and complaints 'bout twitter? 

needs be a hail mary for trump to get back in this, 'cause more than anything, covid is controlling the dialogue as 'posed to the candidates. in the meantime, trump will continue to throw out whatever wacky conspiracy theory his campaign can imagine into existence 'cause they got absolute nothing else to offer. the trump approach may not be reasonable but it is rational if you accept basic premises which require an abandonment o' integrity and is recognizing trump limitations at this stage.

HA! Good Fun!

[ComradeYellow]

2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

I'll bite this and entertain you. 

The party was called National Socialists. While it wasn't a walfare state or a state owned business and means of production, it was state driven expenditures, but the twisted nature of that socialism, was to tax (rob) other nations of their wealth and provide slaves to a privilaged class of asset owners, which were working and encouraged to build oligopoly/monopoly based economy in close partnership with the state. 

It wasn't really a smith'sonain economy or capitalizm 

Do you not know what Fascism is or what?  Nazi Germany was a far right hypermasculine anti-semetic vehemently anti-communist social-darwinist monopoly capitalist state (Only teh strongest most loyal Germans shall be successful entrepreneurs).

Don't know why people are trying to spin this, it's like historically calling the Confederates "Actually Yankees" or something in an attempt to make the U.S. look bad.

Edited October 16, 2020 by ComradeMaster

[Malcador]

52 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

If only. What happened to Bartimaeus? Seems like he hasn't been around lately either.

He posted recently, he made a post with an actress avatar and I thought it was Amentep.

[majestic]

8 minutes ago, Malcador said:

He posted recently, he made a post with an actress avatar and I thought it was Amentep.

At least now I know that I'm not the only one. I too thought that was Amentep posting.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

We are not proletarians anymore, we are merely consumers.  Our fight should be against monopoly capitalism and encouraging more market competition.

Also, fighting against a unipolar world run by the U.S. in favor of a multipolar world with Russia, China, and the U.S. competing for influence.

Comrade I generally believe people do mean what they say in posts so I do find these types of comments confusing? But I may be misunderstanding what you suggesting. What type of government would you like to see in the USA .....and I assume its based on a economic and political model that is successful somewhere 

You have confirmed in the past you support a Nordic model of government what  is known as Social Democracies ? 

16 hours ago, Gorth said:

If you would like to try it the other way around, then you should visit Australia some day.

Gorthfuscious  I wanted to ask you something that you have raised in our past debates around the current failures around socialism

If I understand your general view correctly you dont have an issue with socialism because of your lived experience growing up in Denmark. And I agree the Nordic countries are a real success story but they not true socialist countries by the definition of its current failures .....for example you have a vibrant and working private sector in all the Nordic countries and no evidence that any Nordic government would nationalize, which in most cases means the theft of foreign or local assets, any international investment ?

But from your  belief in socialism is it based on Denmark ?

[ComradeYellow]

9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Comrade I generally believe people do mean what they say in posts so I do find these types of comments confusing? But I may be misunderstanding what you suggesting. What type of government would you like to see in the USA .....and I assume its based on a economic and political model that is successful somewhere 

You have confirmed in the past you support a Nordic model of government what  is known as Social Democracies ? 

Not really.  The U.S. is a power and powers don't copy mid-grade countries, we compete with other powers like Russia and China. 

[Gorth]

18 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious  I wanted to ask you something that you have raised in our past debates around the current failures around socialism

If I understand your general view correctly you dont have an issue with socialism because of your lived experience growing up in Denmark. And I agree the Nordic countries are a real success story but they not true socialist countries by the definition of its current failures .....for example you have a vibrant and working private sector in all the Nordic countries and no evidence that any Nordic government would nationalize, which in most cases means the theft of foreign or local assets, any international investment ?

But from your  belief in socialism is it based on Denmark ?

Pretty much, yes. I also know it only works because society as a whole agrees it's worth keeping. It also helps a LOT that few governments are more under scrutiny and gets called out by free, independent press than the Scandinavian governments. They **** up, they're out. Of course the opposition parties usually wins the next election anyway, regardless of left/right affiliation. 4 years and enough dirt will have accumulated that people want "the other option". Some call it the Scandinavian Model. I think of it as a hybrid model. The socialism part is financed through high taxes and no, corporate taxes are low enough to make Danish companies very competitive internationally, ask Maersk