Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)

[Orogun01]

14 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

https://americanmind.org/post/buy-guns-and-ammo/

I agreed with this 1000%.... until he got into the politics. Basically he's blaming the Democrats for the fall of law and order and inability of the state to provide security. He's only half right on that count. 

The truth is the state has never, ever been able to provide security. At best the police do a fair job of identifying who has committed a crime and arresting them to face justice. At their worst they are an armed gang every bit as capricious, oppressive and dangerous as the people folks thing they should be protected from. 

If you are an American citizen you REALLY need to pay attention to this: your safety, security, health, and future are entirely in YOUR hands. You need to begin thinking about those things as if your governments do not exist. Because on a functional level they don't in some ways. That is not to say there is no law and you can do whatever. Exactly the opposite. Follow the law but take every action to further your own security, financial and actual

I would be inclined to agree but even before the pandemic Democrat run states and cities had policies that encouraged crime. Portland (IIRC) was one such example where lower crimes were not prosecuted, creating an environment where low level criminals and homeless could operate without prosecution.  Security should be an individual's responsibility but we don't need governments fomenting crime.

[Amentep]

8 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

and homeless could operate without prosecution.

Homelessness is a crime?

[Hurlshort]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/us/bloomington-car-attack-protesters.html

I've been disappointed in how people keep trying to dismiss vehicular manslaughter and homicide because people were jaywalking. Then again, I regularly deal with this on the road when I run an cycle. Drivers seem to feel that it is alright to endanger peoples lives if they are in a hurry. 

[Malcador]

10 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

Portland (IIRC) was one such example where lower crimes were not prosecuted, creating an environment where low level criminals and homeless could operate without prosecution. 

What do you mean by homeless operating, here ?

[Amentep]

24 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/us/bloomington-car-attack-protesters.html

I've been disappointed in how people keep trying to dismiss vehicular manslaughter and homicide because people were jaywalking. Then again, I regularly deal with this on the road when I run an cycle. Drivers seem to feel that it is alright to endanger peoples lives if they are in a hurry. 

Not sure where you've seen people dismissing vehicular manslaughter and homicide given that authorities are looking for all the drivers in the incidents listed.

That said EVERYONE can be more mindful of the roads: drivers, pedestrians and bicyclists.  For every courteous and conscientious driver, walker or biker I've seen, I've seen a driver who can't maintain a lane or fails to yield properly or drives the wrong way down a one way street, a walker who walks against the lights without looking up from their phone or darts across the street without paying attention to oncoming traffic or a bicyclist who gets off the road onto the sidewalk to pass traffic, fails to signal turns or straight up run red lights so they won't be slowed down.  We all owe it to each other to look out for each other, no matter what mode of transportation we're using.

[Hurlshort]

19 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Not sure where you've seen people dismissing vehicular manslaughter and homicide given that authorities are looking for all the drivers in the incidents listed.

That said EVERYONE can be more mindful of the roads: drivers, pedestrians and bicyclists.  For every courteous and conscientious driver, walker or biker I've seen, I've seen a driver who can't maintain a lane or fails to yield properly or drives the wrong way down a one way street, a walker who walks against the lights without looking up from their phone or darts across the street without paying attention to oncoming traffic or a bicyclist who gets off the road onto the sidewalk to pass traffic, fails to signal turns or straight up run red lights so they won't be slowed down.  We all owe it to each other to look out for each other, no matter what mode of transportation we're using.

So you are saying that All Traffic Matters?

I get that cyclists and pedestrians can be more mindful, but I don't think you are going to find any cars killed by them. The cars are the bigger problem here. People drive around in multi-ton weapons at high rates of speed while being distracted by all the technology of the day. I'd say the whole culture behind cars needs to start changing.  

[Gromnir]

35 minutes ago, Malcador said:

What do you mean by homeless operating, here ?

'cause homelessness, like crime, is one o' those issues some folks wanna fix with a police baton as 'posed addressing causes (at least in the case o' crime) such as, but not limited to, poverty, social/economic discrimination, and lack of education. 

homelessness, perhaps surprising to many, is a temporary condition for the majority o' those who suffer-- less than 6 months is actual average duration for more than 50% o' US homeless population. the rest includes significant numbers o' children, military veterans and the mentally ill.  

crime rates is indeed higher 'mongst homeless, until you look at crimes committed. disturbing number o' resisting arrests with underlying crime amounting to contempt o' cop or vagrancy. 

oh, and violence against homeless should be a bigger concern. homeless women, in particular, is disproportionate victims o' violent crime.

oh and complete unrelated, but cyclists is a menace. haven't been in a moving vehicle accident in years, unless you include cyclists hitting our stationary vehicle. couple years past, one a-hole broke our passenger-side rearview mirror and just kept on pedaling. is nobody's fault city streets were original designed without more awareness o' cyclist needs, but all too many cyclists wanna punish ordinary drivers for the lack o' city planner foresight.  too many near misses o' cyclists weaving in front o' our vehicle as if they have no respect or awareness o' F=ma. almost makes us want to move to notoriously hilly cities such as pittsburgh and boston, places with less cyclist friendly weather as well.  

we use our bike frequent, but we use bike paths and streets with dedicated bike lanes. 'course we don't live in city so is so much easier for us to maintain such guidelines. regardless, whenever we see cyclists lamenting how oblivious is drivers to cyclists, we cannot help but view through prism o' our own experience which suggests all too many cyclists is a-holes who is willful obtuse regarding some very basic rules o' common sense and physics.

HA! Good Fun!

ps if we had to choose boston or pittsburgh, pittsburgh would clear win. fewer patriots fans in pittsburgh. 

 

[Gromnir]

7-2, with only alito and thomas rejecting majority, is bad news for mcgahn btw. sure, mcghan situation is not same and there is unique issues o' law, but is hard to read, "the Constitution does not entitle the president to absolute immunity or a heightened standard," and not see such as warning o' things to come.

'course given the rate at which Courts move, we will never see trump taxes anyways. will soon be moot.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Hurlshort]

38 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

oh and complete unrelated, but cyclists is a menace. haven't been in a moving vehicle accident in years, unless you include cyclists hitting our stationary vehicle. couple years past, one a-hole broke our passenger-side rearview mirror and just kept on pedaling. is nobody's fault city streets were original designed without more awareness o' cyclist needs, but all too many cyclists wanna punish ordinary drivers for the lack o' city planner foresight.  too many near misses o' cyclists weaving in front o' our vehicle as if they have no respect or awareness o' F=ma. almost makes us want to move to notoriously hilly cities such as pittsburgh and boston, places with less cyclist friendly weather as well.  

we use our bike frequent, but we use bike paths and streets with dedicated bike lanes. 'course we don't live in city so is so much easier for us to maintain such guidelines. regardless, whenever we see cyclists lamenting how oblivious is drivers to cyclists, we cannot help but view through prism o' our own experience which suggests all too many cyclists is a-holes who is willful obtuse regarding some very basic rules o' common sense and physics.

HA! Good Fun!

ps if we had to choose boston or pittsburgh, pittsburgh would clear win. fewer patriots fans in pittsburgh. 

 

You are driving around in a multi-ton vehicle with a powerful engine, and cyclist are pedaling around on a small frame that weighs 15-30 pounds, yet they are the menace? 

[Gromnir]

Just now, Hurlshot said:

You are driving around in a multi-ton vehicle with a powerful engine, and cyclist are pedaling around on a small frame that weighs 15-30 pounds, yet they are the menace? 

yes!

for chissakes, we drive knowing we is in a vehicle with enormous mass and we drive appropriate. all too many cyclists take hurl's view and obtuse presume they need not be careful 'cause it is Gromnir in the big and dangerous vehicle who should be more aware and cautious. what? is as if putting on a bike helmet squeezes your brains outta your skull.

and again, we were hit multiple times when our vehicle were stationary. what 'bout F=ma is so hard to understand? 

wanna tell us many drivers o' cars and trucks is careless? fine. no argument. is many careless drivers o' cars, but you know that. would think more cyclists would act accordingly. cyclists should be more careful knowing there is careless auto drivers and recognizing they always lose in a auto v. bike confrontation. geez.

assume as fact there is many auto drivers who is careless (there is) don't mean cyclists is precluded from being similar or even more careless. is not freaking binary. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

In Toronto a LOT of cyclists act like the world needs to adapt to their behaviours, so they ride around as if everyone needs to watch out for them.  Not sure if it just Toronto-level entitlement though.

[Gromnir]

54 minutes ago, Malcador said:

In Toronto a LOT of cyclists act like the world needs to adapt to their behaviours, so they ride around as if everyone needs to watch out for them.  Not sure if it just Toronto-level entitlement though.

is not just a toronto thing. hell, even in rural, Gromnir does bike stoopid at times. we live in the foothills-- understatement. am right on border o' sacramento and el dorado county. lotta hills. lotta stop signs right at the top o' a hill. *groan* how many times at 5:30 am has Gromnir not made a complete and full stop at every stop sign on our bike route? too many to recollect. nevertheless, when we see a driver in his luxury suv drive through such intersections at same time o' day, we gets all indignant 'bout how dangerous is such behavior. we see different from pov o' cyclist.

serious, there is something 'bout a bike helmet which decreases iq. as bike is a small frame o' metal offering zero protection in case o' collisions, genuine reasonable behaviour would have us being far more careful than auto drivers just because consequences is so much more dire, but cyclists don't see the world reasonable. because autos is able to do more damage, they should be more careful? while cyclists pinball machine their way through stopped traffic at busy city intersections and ignore, with regularity, the most basic rules o' road, the menace is the lady in the mercedes doing her makeup instead o' paying attention to the road.

again, is not binary. far too many cyclists routine ignore rules o' road which makes biking more difficult or taxing. is somehow ok 'cause the real menace is auto drivers.

*snort*

HA! Good Fun!

ps 'pon reflection, stop signs at bottom of a hill is worse for Gromnir on bike. am habitual violating stops at bottom o' hill when making a right turn... is American, so no oncoming traffic when making a right. however, am having no idea what is around the corner we take at +30mph at 5:30 am and we nevertheless do such almost daily. is daily stoopid. is the kinda daily stoopid cyclists do all the time w/o considering as menacing. one o' these days, if we hit some old guy walking his pomeranian at 5:30 am as he crosses street a bit before the stop sign from his pov, we will reflect 'pon our dumbness, but am betting tomorrow we do exact same as we has done +4 times a week for years and burn through the stop without more than a slight tap on the brakes.  

Edited July 9, 2020 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

To be fair, in a lot of cities, I notice no one knows what they are doing.

[Amentep]

2 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

So you are saying that All Traffic Matters?

I get that cyclists and pedestrians can be more mindful, but I don't think you are going to find any cars killed by them. The cars are the bigger problem here. People drive around in multi-ton weapons at high rates of speed while being distracted by all the technology of the day. I'd say the whole culture behind cars needs to start changing.  

What I'm saying is that you can't blame a car driver for hitting a bicyclist if that bicyclist runs a red light, or hits a pedestrian who, at the last minute, decides to dart out into traffic.  And I've seen both happen with regularity.  In fact I see bicyclists running red lights and stop signs almost every morning on my commute.  Locally, at least, bikes are supposed to obey the same rules as motorcycles.

A friend of mind got dragged by a truck because the driver didn't give enough clearance when passing her on her bicycle.  I get it - cars can be dangerous for bicyclists.  And far too many drivers are impatient with slower speeds that bicyclists maintain and make bad decisions around them.

But I hear far too many times, always from bicyclists, that bicyclists are never at fault for accidents as if some rider on a bike running the red light and not yielding to oncoming traffic as they are supposed to can't possible be to blame for getting hit by a car.  Nope, its the car drivers fault for not anticipating the bicyclist would run the light, obviously.

Don't get me started on bicyclists who don't know how to give proper hand signals for either turns or stops, either. I learned it at, like 6.  There's like, three - ten if riding in a group - to learn.  Its not that hard.

[Skazz]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

To be fair, in a lot of cities, I notice no one knows what they are doing.

Yup, and that's basically how I beat my fear of driving in big cities after I got my driver's license. At first, it was super intimidating, but then I realized that so many people were YOLOing their way through the daily traffic that I couldn't possibly be the worst thing to have graced the asphalt. Bam, confidence boosted.

[Gfted1]

21 minutes ago, Amentep said:

There's like, three - ten if riding in a group - to learn.  Its not that hard.

I know; right, left and stop. Whats the other 7?

[Amentep]

11 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I know; right, left and stop. Whats the other 7?

They're mostly for signaling other riders and I don't know how wide spread they are (its been ages since I biked in a group).  Point at road hazard as you pass it, point at road and move hand back in forth for road hazards, hand down and palm parallel to road and move arm up and down to indicate slowing, Signal with elbow when shifting to left or right of group, right arm back and pat backside to signal a need to pay attention to the riders behind, hand open as if pushing on a wall to indicate blocked shoulder or blocked part of the road.

So 9 then, unless I'm forgetting 1.

[Guard Dog]

The Jorgensen/Cohen campaign has it's first ad out. Internet only, obviously. Not that great if you ask me. Looks but doesn't really say anything

 

[Hurlshort]

Seemed to have a lot of pro-environmental awareness tones to me, which was surprising. Green Party ad could be almost identical.

[Guard Dog]

1 minute ago, Hurlshot said:

Seemed to have a lot of pro-environmental awareness tones to me, which was surprising. Green Party ad could be almost identical.

Much to my surprise Green Libertarian is a real thing and accounts for a fair sized share of the folks who support the LP. Based purely on my own conversations/observations. The big difference being a complete lack of faith in the ability or willingness of any government to actually do anything. 

It actually matches my own attitudes towards the government of the US and even state and local. We can't fix it. We can't save it. Maybe we should just start ignoring it. 

[Orogun01]

10 hours ago, Amentep said:

Homelessness is a crime?

 

8 hours ago, Malcador said:

What do you mean by homeless operating, here ?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. There was a rise in drug use, breaking and entering, public disturbance, violence, etc, from homeless that were either looking for a score or were mentally ill. Even if a cop was present they couldn't act.

 

[Guard Dog]

I say we get rid of cars and go back to horses. Your car will never be your friend. 

[Skazz]

10 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I say we get rid of cars and go back to horses. Your car will never be your friend. 

Can't we settle for bicycles?

[Amentep]

19 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I say we get rid of cars and go back to horses. Your car will never be your friend. 

My commute would be longer, but it'd probably be worth it. Not sure where I'd corral the horse though while at work. And we'd all have to get used to the smell of horse poop again.

True story, several bridges in town exist solely because train traffic was backing up horse traffic, and in the height of summer the heat and smell was overwhelming.  So they built bridges to go over the train tracks, eventually raising the street level.

[Volourn]

Doesn't help with stupid cities and their stupid by-laws forcing bikes onto roads. LMAO