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Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)


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15 hours ago, Gromnir said:

don't be like vol. take an extreme example and somehow makes it emblematic o' an entire group is wrong, and you know it. 

is tragic how popularity o' fox news proved it were commercial viable to sell modern mass media as a product which were meant to not only resonate with a particular viewpoint, but to further polarize. fox model had competing organizations dueling to out conservative or out liberal each other to appeal to their respective audiences. fox did what were obvious in retrospect and sold people news as the audience wished it to be.

unfortunate, the alternative facts culture has become less fringe with each passing year. viewpoint news were hardly new in US history, but viewpoint history as some kinda packaged and sellable commodity is... well, ok, that ain't new either. difference is the speed with which stuff is available and proliferates. am pretty certain gd wouldn't have used the link to the racist puke promoting greater access to guns and ammo if he knew more 'bout the kid's credentials, but in today's world, who can keep up with such stuff? history and facts is viewpoint specific? no, but you wouldn't realize that truth if your only experience were the internet.  armed with google and a bit o' free time, you can always find a dissenting opinion on any historical issue.

is why @Hurlshot and his observation 'bout teachable moments is so important. when faced with angry, stoopid and ignorant, responding with anger and indignation is not gonna be helpful if you wanna bring 'bout education. teachable moments we suspect hurl references is not like how board issues play out, thank goodness. the holocaust survivor who is confronted by holocaust denialism gains little by raging at the offender and sending 'em a text with links to a half-dozen holocaust history sites. 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."

turn holocaust into some kinda viewpoint battle does not promote education. 

regardless, @Guard Dog, be better than vol. 

HA! Good Fun!

OK, I was being hypothetical but since you brought it up, WHY is that example so flawed? No rational person can deny the holocaust. Is it rational to deny the horrors of communism? The economic system cannot be extricated from the horrors it has permitted. Or even caused. Terrible people with power do terrible things it's true. And Communism allows terrible people to have lots of power. But even beyond the mass killings and imprisonment that goes hand in hand with EVERY nation that followed that horror there is the mass starvation and deprivation that such a flawed system brings. It kills even when it's practitioners don't feel like killing.  True, we are not talking about the deliberate and systematic extermination of a race of people here. But the dead are still dead and Communism's body count exponentially outstrips the holocaust. So exactly how does the hypothetical comparison of how a survivor of each might react to a denier fail?

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

 So exactly how does the hypothetical comparison of how a survivor of each might react to a denier fail?

it is a hypothetical comparison and we cannot think o' any living examples, but we don't doubt there has been a couple. again, the example is extreme. you purposeful made extreme so as to make a point. the extremity makes the example o' negligible value... might as well use examples o' brutal mating practices o' unicorns to make some kinda point 'bout domestic violence.

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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BLM have very little to do with actual black communities...

 

 

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Of course most black people support the police.  They  are effected heavily by crime largely because of white liberals letting the minority of scumbags. Most crime - no matter who is doing it is done by the same people over and over again. Hell, the cop who killed Flloyd is evidence of this since he had repeatedly broke the rules for how cops should behave hence why it shouldn't be surprising that he eventually went too far.

How many tims do we hear about a tragedy (be it white, black or whatever criminal) having a long history of run-ins with cops/the law before they commit  a beyond heinous crime. Vast majority of people just want to live their lives in piece but we let the tiny % of scumbags ruin things.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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10 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

it is a hypothetical comparison and we cannot think o' any living examples, but we don't doubt there has been a couple. again, the example is extreme. you purposeful made extreme so as to make a point. the extremity makes the example o' negligible value... might as well use examples o' brutal mating practices o' unicorns to make some kinda point 'bout domestic violence.

HA! Good Fun!

 

HOW is it extreme? Because one was a localized event and the other more diffuse? There is no denying they are equally horrible. I'm sorry, I think the comparison is between two like events and not extreme. But, whatever. Agree to disagree on that point.  

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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11 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

HOW is it extreme? Because one was a localized event and the other more diffuse? There is no denying they are equally horrible. I'm sorry, I think the comparison is between two like events and not extreme. But, whatever. Agree to disagree on that point.  

name three jewish kids you personal know who has come home from college and expressed holocaust denialism to their grandparents who suffered through the holocaust. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Just now, Gromnir said:

name three jewish kids you personal know who has come home from college and expressed holocaust denialism to their grandparents who suffered through the holocaust. 

HA! Good Fun!

Can't think of a one. Can't think of a single person who thought communism was all sunshine and rainbows either. All of this started from an anecdotal example. A story someone I knew told me. But I thought we were being hypothetical?

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

Can't think of a one. Can't think of a single person who thought communism was all sunshine and rainbows either. All of this started from an anecdotal example. A story someone I knew told me. But I thought we were being hypothetical?

which is our freaking point. if you use a hypothetical to expose some kinda truth it can't be so implausible and extreme as to invalidate. you may not see the problem 'cause you do frequent indulge in ghoulishly implausible hypotheticals as justification for something you believe in.  they are gonna take away our guns and freedom because __________ is just the first step onto the slippery slope towards inevitable chaos. 

be better than vol.

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Nobody is better than Vol.

 

But, then agin, you believe it is a-ok from some teenybopper to come home and attack their father because they fled a ****hole country and accuse him of lying b/c she rather believe her white trash Amerikan professors who didn't have to deal with Nazi governments  destroying them.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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3 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

which is our freaking point. if you use a hypothetical to expose some kinda truth it can't be so implausible and extreme as to invalidate. you may not see the problem 'cause you do frequent indulge in ghoulishly implausible hypotheticals as justification for something you believe in.  they are gonna take away our guns and freedom because __________ is just the first step onto the slippery slope towards inevitable chaos. 

be better than vol.

HA! Good Fun!

 

You know this exchange has gone on so long I had to go back and re-read what I actually said. My response to Hurlshot was not a retort. In fact i did not rebut his point that it might have been a teachable moment at all. I was not trying to expose any truth. Merely to express how someone who has seen an atrocity first hand might be justified in being angry when told, with a helping of arrogance no doubt, that it never happened. 

And yes I do unapologetically engage in hyperbole and sometimes even stake out indefensible and extreme positions. Nothing that is contrary to my own moral code mind you. But perhaps taken a step or two farther than I would IRL. And you already know why I do it. I enjoy conversing with you and the others on this forum (an others). But sometimes those conversations need a spark to start... or a little fuel to keep burning.  Nuance and moderation are fine things in real life but make for boring conversations on political threads. Sometimes the devil needs an advocate. Batman would never leave the cave but for the Joker. 

But, that was not the case here. I was not trying to expose any great truth. Sometimes an example is just that.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

 

But, that was not the case here. I was not trying to expose any great truth. Sometimes an example is just that.

*sigh*

it wasn't an example. still missing point. you even has recognized it were not an example but rather a hypothetical.

an example is a specific instance which models general rule. you did not share and example but rather created a hypothetical so extreme it made any kinda analogy to a general rule utter meaningless. 

going in circles and repeating.

can repost your hypothetical, but wouldn't help. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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43 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

name three jewish kids you personal know who has come home from college and expressed holocaust denialism to their grandparents who suffered through the holocaust. 

HA! Good Fun!

Ok, I just randomly ran up to a bunch of kids in a Jewish neighborhood (more than 3 in case some weren't jewish or didn't have grandparents) and told them the holocaust wasn't real. Oh wait...you said college, since when do kids go to college?

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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9 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

Ok, I just randomly ran up to a bunch of kids in a Jewish neighborhood (more than 3 in case some weren't jewish or didn't have grandparents) and told them the holocaust wasn't real. Oh wait...you said college, since when do kids go to college?

the vast majority o' folks attending college is kids, least from our pov.

congrats btw on spreading your curious faith to a new generation, or not. think you convinced at least three? 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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37 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

Ok, I just randomly ran up to a bunch of kids in a Jewish neighborhood (more than 3 in case some weren't jewish or didn't have grandparents) and told them the holocaust wasn't real. Oh wait...you said college, since when do kids go to college?

I thought your line was the Holocaust wasn't as bad as it is commonly made out to be, not that it didn't happen? Either way a grown man going up to a neighborhood with the intent to talk to children is creepy. 

Kids have gone to college forever, hence the common term "college kids" that refers to the 18-22 year olds who attend college after graduating high school.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Graham says he will call Mueller to testify before Senate panel about Russia probe

am admitting we don't see why in july o' 2020 graham has changed his mind-- we could make guesses, but would be pure conjecture. what does the senator believes he and the gop will gain from this and what is different today than the previous +11 months?

curious.

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Volo stop using same tactics as the other side. Its really low. Not all BLM people are bad, not all cops are bad...

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Nope. BLM and Antifa are Nazi organizations. Just because some people got hoodwinked into believing their smokescreen lies doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the fact that the group mandates are murder, kill, rape, and destroy anyone including other blacks.

 

BLM and Antifa killed and murdered and caused millions of damages in Minnesota to the point they were begging the Federal govt' to give them money. The governor and mayor brought it on themselves. No money for you.

How many people's lives  - white, black, or latino - that BLM and Antifa have to be responsible for destroying before they are officially called out for they are - gangs. And, it starts with the white trash.

 

BLM has literally murdered BLmers.  And, people still make excuses for them.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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1 minute ago, Volourn said:

Nope. BLM and Antifa are Nazi organizations.

What.  The.  Hell.  BLM and Antifa are far-to-the-extreme left end of the Democratic Party.  I would know, they are my neighbors, being on the far right end of the Green Party.  I know lot's of people who identify as BLM and Antifa (w/o actually identifying with them) and they certainly aren't chauvinistic white supremacists like Proud Boys 😄

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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7 minutes ago, Volourn said:

Nope. BLM and Antifa are Nazi organizations. Just because some people got hoodwinked into believing their smokescreen lies doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the fact that the group mandates are murder, kill, rape, and destroy anyone including other blacks.

 

BLM and Antifa killed and murdered and caused millions of damages in Minnesota to the point they were begging the Federal govt' to give them money. The governor and mayor brought it on themselves. No money for you.

How many people's lives  - white, black, or latino - that BLM and Antifa have to be responsible for destroying before they are officially called out for they are - gangs. And, it starts with the white trash.

 

BLM has literally murdered BLmers.  And, people still make excuses for them.

I have typed people, not organisation...

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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"What.  The.  Hell.  BLM and Antifa are far-to-the-extreme left end of the Democratic Party.  I would know, they are my neighbors, being on the far right end of the Green Party.  I know lot's of people who identify as BLM and Antifa (w/o actually identifying with them) and they certainly aren't chauvinistic white supremacists like Proud Boys 😄"

the far left and the far right are both trash. Then again, the left and the right are trash. So is the center.

 

 

 

 

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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2 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

What.  The.  Hell.  BLM and Antifa are far-to-the-extreme left end of the Democratic Party.  I would know, they are my neighbors, being on the far right end of the Green Party.  I know lot's of people who identify as BLM and Antifa (w/o actually identifying with them) and they certainly aren't chauvinistic white supremacists like Proud Boys 😄

Are your neighbors active within the protests or do they simply identify as BLM? Additionally, how many Proud Boys do you know that we can have your word that they are chauvinistic?

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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46 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

Are your neighbors active within the protests or do they simply identify as BLM? Additionally, how many Proud Boys do you know that we can have your word that they are chauvinistic?

It's like you don't understand political spectrums or ideologies or what I'm talking about and trying to create a strawman.

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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1 minute ago, ComradeMaster said:

It's like you don't understand political spectrums or ideologies or what I'm talking about and trying to create a strawman.

It's ok to say you don't know and that you haven't met any Proud Boys, ergo why you generalize them.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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The article was irritating and makes several completely inaccurate suggestions about white people, Im glad it was written in 2018 because I have seen similar views from some journalists around BLM now and they were equally unhelpful 

If anyone is interested why most white people should reject this type of " understanding " of white culture its  because it aligns to a certain narrative I sometimes have come across where basically non-white ( this journalist is arab) commentators have this view of white people they claim is the truth and yet it is offensive and condescending and creates an issue around something that is just a normal human emotion.....for example this definition of " white tears "  as if now when a white women is crying we suppose to react to it in a way that somehow we must respond to it differently than any other women who may be crying 

Its  ridiculous and extremely inaccurate way to respond to anyone who is crying that somehow the person is expecting attention or there is a expected response. 

And then if you think Im overreacting please read the link below to see how this " white women tears " and keep asking yourself is this what a white women who cries is thinking? Just to let you know it is full of even more inaccurate " views "  of what defines white people generally.....I would really like to get peoples views on this ...all opinions welcome and please disagree with me if Im misunderstanding something

 

https://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2018/04/weaponizing-white-women-tears.html

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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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