Politics: The Final Frontier

[ShadySands]

7 hours ago, Skarpen said:

The same investmemt as everybody else here posting and discussing things. *shrug*. If you provide some data I would be happy to look at it. But from what I know simple possesion isn't even a crime, it's misdemeanor. Well jails and prisons are different things and I don't think anyone is campaigning to release ppl from jails, that would be wierd. Assuming they work the same as here, which I think they do.

Different situation as I would be noncitizen. Also a wierd way to check the law. It's easier to check what the law says. And it says simple possesion is a misdemeanor and is not punished by prison time.

Not sure where you're getting that

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/drug-possession-penalties-and-sentencing.html

That's just checking laws which vary quite a bit depending on where you're at.

I'm not sure what your jails are like but ours are generally used to house people awaiting trial or sentencing but also hold inmates with misdemeanors and low level felonies. It's also more short term and typically no more than a year. Again, also varying depending on location.

[Skarpen]

30 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Not sure where you're getting that

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/drug-possession-penalties-and-sentencing.html

That's just checking laws which vary quite a bit depending on where you're at.

I'm not sure what your jails are like but ours are generally used to house people awaiting trial or sentencing but also hold inmates with misdemeanors and low level felonies. It's also more short term and typically no more than a year. Again, also varying depending on location.

So the jails are the same. I was reading federal. Didn't know the laws vary so much between states. Some of those sentences are pretty high, but it mostly is highest in collablration with other offences. The sentences could be lowered in some states that's ok. But I still don't fancy the idea of mass releases as this will end badly as shown before.

[ShadySands]

I don't favor indiscriminate mass release as I think each case should be reviewed in-depth prior to any release

Also, there actually are a small number of people incarcerated in federal prisons for simple possession. It's only a misdemeanor on the first offense and even that can still get you up to a year and since I don't think the federal goverments operates jails I can only assume where they go

various links and whatnot

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/844

https://www.ussc.gov/

https://www.bjs.gov/

https://www.drugwarfacts.org/

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/

Note: last 2 have an agenda to refrom drug and/or prison policy but they do dash the notion that prisons are overflowing with people put there for possession and do generally state how many are there for that reason

Bonus link

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/04/16/john-boehners-claim-that-we-have-literally-filled-up-our-jails-with-people-for-minor-marijuana-possession/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2f801a3843df

Edited July 20, 2019 by ShadySands

[BruceVC]

16 hours ago, Skarpen said:

So the jails are the same. I was reading federal. Didn't know the laws vary so much between states. Some of those sentences are pretty high, but it mostly is highest in collablration with other offences. The sentences could be lowered in some states that's ok. But I still don't fancy the idea of mass releases as this will end badly as shown before.

Skarpie, I hear what you saying but the USA legal system definitely use to have a seriously well meaning but unbalanced and problematic way of enforcing real jail time and trying to enforce drug control

I wont post links but in summary , people could be sent to jail for possession of cannabis. African american communities would be at times specifically targeted in the interests of arrest quotas in certain places , yes the police were doing there job but you cant think possession of cannabis means jail time. So in other words someone who is simply smoking weed gets sent to jail where they probably will end up becoming a serious criminal

Its not effective and its not  fair. We not suggesting hard core criminals get a pass but you only make things worse when you  end up creating criminals for someone using cannabis, thats one reason  why legalization of cannabis is so common nowadays. I hope this makes sense 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by BruceVC

[smjjames]

14 hours ago, Sarex said:

The west wants the "negotiations" between Serbia and Kosovo to continue, Serbia refuses because of the taxes (100%) that were imposed on it by Kosovo. Haradinaj is their proponent and doesn't want them removed, his political carrier depends on him not giving up on them. So what does he do when the pressure from the west is getting too great? He gets called to Hague, which gives him a reason to resign, thus not be involved in the removal of the taxes and then he will be released and come back to run for another political position. Also he will get prove his "innocence" by getting release from Hague, which is a win/win for him.

As opposed to what, war?

 

13 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49053383

More provocative actions from Iran as it seizes a UK tanker for unnecessary reasons....Iran doesnt seem to understand its precarious reality in any military conflict

I thought the British had already released the ship that they had detained at Gibraltar? It could be a 'How do YOU like it now, huh??" sort of thing, but yeah, it's an unneccesary provocation.

[Zoraptor]

Not only have the Brits not released it they planned on holding on to it for the maximum time allowed before they legally have to make a decision; hardly a sign of good faith.

The whole thing was calculated to inflame tensions- there's no way the UK was so naive as to believe anything else could result from it- probably at the insistence of the US so as to try and lever the other Euros away from the JCPOA. The UK rather laughably enforcing EU law (literally laughable given Spain which isn't leaving the EU DGAF about the tanker being in their waters beforehand) and seizing ships in the Straits of Gibraltar while trumpeting the Straits of Hormuz as being an essential international waterway where ships are inviolate was never going to go down well, nor is it credible that they thought there would not be reciprocation.

HoonDing better post that Goering quote again, since it's apt.

[smjjames]

I thought I'd read something about them letting it go or letting it go soon. Irans actions make sense in that context.

As for the British actions, it does seem odd to have the law suddenly be enforced where it wasn't being for years by Spain, or anybody else for that matter. So, the Iranians being more than indigniant is certainly understandable as they'd be like 'WTF? Why are you enforcing it NOW?' regardless of whether they were actually complying from the start or not.

Also, I wonder, if war breaks out between US and Iran and the UK gets dragged into it one way or another, would that be reason enough to cancel Brexit or at least for the EU to delay it further? Going to war just as you enter economic turmoil is a pretty dumb idea, unless of course the point of the war is to fix the turmoil.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/20/boris-johnson-iran-gulf-crisis-admiral-lord-west

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/20/new-pm-take-note-iran-crisis-could-escalate-into-war

Edited July 21, 2019 by smjjames

[Zoraptor]

There was some talk of it being let go if they guaranteed it wasn't going to go to Syria but it didn't amount to anything.

Probably the most salient fact about the whole incident is that there isn't actually an EU oil embargo on Syria- yes, seriously. Closest is jet fuel exports, and imports of Syrian oil to the EU. There's zero mention of exports of oil to Syria being banned though (eg, UK.gov).

[Sarex]

8 hours ago, smjjames said:

As opposed to what, war?

Black and white with you, huh?

[Skarpen]

16 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I don't favor indiscriminate mass release as I think each case should be reviewed in-depth prior to any release

That is a reasonable approach. Unfortunately left wing politicians are not known for reasonable approach. 

16 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Skarpie, I hear what you saying but the USA legal system definitely use to have a seriously well meaning but unbalanced and problematic way of enforcing real jail time and trying to enforce drug control

I wont post links but in summary , people could be sent to jail for possession of cannabis. African american communities would be at times specifically targeted in the interests of arrest quotas in certain places , yes the police were doing there job but you cant think possession of cannabis means jail time. So in other words someone who is simply smoking weed gets sent to jail where they probably will end up becoming a serious criminal

Its not effective and its not  fair. We not suggesting hard core criminals get a pass but you only make things worse when you  end up creating criminals for someone using cannabis, thats one reason  why legalization of cannabis is so common nowadays. I hope this makes sense 

 

I agree that over-penalization can be as bad as under-penalization. I only oppose the solutions that are just tilting the scale all the way in the opposite direction. And I know that you guys don't suggest releasing hard criminals, the Democratic presidential candidates do. 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

Black and white with you, huh?

Not really, its a probing question because its unclear what you are suggesting. I am also  interested in what think are better ways forward than negotiations between Kosovo and Serbia? 

[Raithe]

[BruceVC]

https://fareedzakaria.com/columns/2019/7/18/the-cancerous-consensus-in-todays-politicized-washington

Interesting read from the erudite Fareed Zakaria, in this article he makes the case the USA defense budget is out of control and needs to be reigned on..I'm not sure I agree with this as its good to spend money on  important institutions like the military in any Democracy that has good intentions for a better world

 

[Guard Dog]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

https://fareedzakaria.com/columns/2019/7/18/the-cancerous-consensus-in-todays-politicized-washington

Interesting read from the erudite Fareed Zakaria, in this article he makes the case the USA defense budget is out of control and needs to be reigned on..I'm not sure I agree with this as its good to spend money on  important institutions like the military in any Democracy that has good intentions for a better world

 

Well, you already know what I think. https://www.usdebtclock.org/

This is just right this moment. If you count unfunded future obligations five years out the US is going to be negative more than $117,000,000,000,000. That is after monitization and accounting for future incomes via tax and other sources. 

 

And before the lefties start salivating about taxing our way out of this... you can't. If they seized every dollar of every asset of every American at the same spending rate the US will still be over $100 Trillion in the red in 7 years and a nation of beggars. We HAVE to cut spending in a BIG way, That means everything. Military, social benefits, everything. But we will never do that. So we are totally f----d. 

I think I'll order another 1k rounds of ammunition and some more mason jars for preserving food. 

[ShadySands]

 

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

 

"Go back to      " has a long history here. Maybe some of the international folks have similar things in their own countries. Words or phrases that have other much more negative connotations behind them than may appear at first glance or to someone unfamiliar.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/15/741827580/go-back-where-you-came-from-the-long-rhetorical-roots-of-trump-s-racist-tweets

I've personally been told to go back to various different places usually depending on where I am in the country. Though to be fair to the racists, because everyone needs a break, I'm decently tough to pin down since my (ancient alien) ancestors are from figurative literally everywhere.

 

[213374U]

Just channeling my inner HoonDing

 

 

[smjjames]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Not really, its a probing question because its unclear what you are suggesting. I am also  interested in what think are better ways forward than negotiations between Kosovo and Serbia? 

I may have been too... blunt or something with adding the 'war' part in there, but yes, it was intended as a 'as opposed to what alternate situation?' sort of question.

 

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Well, you already know what I think. https://www.usdebtclock.org/

This is just right this moment. If you count unfunded future obligations five years out the US is going to be negative more than $117,000,000,000,000. That is after monitization and accounting for future incomes via tax and other sources. 

 

And before the lefties start salivating about taxing our way out of this... you can't. If they seized every dollar of every asset of every American at the same spending rate the US will still be over $100 Trillion in the red in 7 years and a nation of beggars. We HAVE to cut spending in a BIG way, That means everything. Military, social benefits, everything. But we will never do that. So we are totally f----d. 

I think I'll order another 1k rounds of ammunition and some more mason jars for preserving food. 

I haven't personally heard or read anything about liberals massively taxing our way out of this, but some sort of tax increase on the wealthy or something would likely be part of the overall solution.

As for cutting spending, it would definetly be beneficial to 'trim the fat', as it were, and cut out inefficient or useless things or things that are no longer functioning and things that don't need to be funded as much (all of which, TBH, mostly vary from politician to politician). Then theres stuff which really DO need more funding than they actually get (cuts elsewhere would offset some of this). Only problem is that the Republicans would rather take a battleaxe to things rather than doing it in a way that doesn't make things worse.

[HoonDing]

The Wiener Republic.

[Sarex]

3 hours ago, smjjames said:

I may have been too... blunt or something with adding the 'war' part in there, but yes, it was intended as a 'as opposed to what alternate situation?' sort of question.

Status quo. There will obviously be no compromise, or exchanging of territories, as that would automatically lead to a unification of Serbia and Republika Srpska (Serbian territory in Bosnia) and the west won't stand for that. So leave it for later, when either the west loses supremacy or the east loses relevancy.

[smjjames]

@GD I'm fully aware of the debt being sky high. It does frustrate me that they keep kicking the debt ceiling can (I prefer oil barrel for the metaphor instead of can) down the road, not because I want a debt default, but because the reason they keep doing it is because they aren't dealing with the problem.

Regarding 2), I seriously doubt most politicians have any plans that far ahead, that is jumping right into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Will there be some who profit off of or take advantage of the situation? definetly, but they aren't telepathic cithulhuoids which can see into the future precisely when a collapse will happen. On top of that, I'd like to introduce 3) 'they don't understand the problem.' This, along with the fact that some think we can go further on the debt (due to erroneous economic theory or whatever) and the general behavior of politicians fits occams razor MUCH better than explaination 2.

[Guard Dog]

I'll buy that. Being in elected office certainly does not indicate any kind of advanced intelligence or understanding. But preparing for economiclypse isn't rocket science. I've been giving advice for that very thing for years here and other boards I participate in. 

1. Get out/Stay out of unnecessary debt. Save money if you want to make investment/purchases. 
2. Diversify your investments. No more than 30% of your portfolio should be stocks/securities. Avoid government bonds. Interest on them sucks anyway. Invest in things not tied to any one currency. Commodities are good. Real estate is better
3. Buy a gun and become proficient in it's use. Have a decent store of ammunition for it. Shotguns are the best choice for home defense for people not into firearms IMO.
4. Keep at least two weeks of non perishable food on hand. Personally I could go a year on what I have if I needed to. 
5. Take whatever steps you think are needed for the security of your home and family. Good locks, eliminate blind spots, shatter proof windows, etc. 
6. Crypto-Currency. Know what it is and how it works. I'm not saying buy it. I did. I bought one bitcoin seven months ago. That is it. We'll see where we go with that. But you need to understand what it is. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Guard Dog

[smjjames]

I thought you meant prepare for/take advantage of as in doing or planning on doing shady corrupt stuff to take advantage of the situation corruptly.

[Zoraptor]

The ultimate problem with US debt is human nature and its tendency, when offered a good scenario and a bad one, to pick the good scenario no matter how unlikely it is or what the evidence is for the bad one. I'm 100% sure that most US politicians know that their debt is a problem, and a big one; but solving it will be unpopular, other politicians will insist that the problem isn't that bad and they'll be the ones getting elected because "everything's fine, no need to make sacrifices, in fact we can spend more on stuff you like" is a lot more marketable than "we're in trouble, we need to minimise the trouble as quickly as possible and that means cut backs". And no doubt there's a lot of too big to fail hubris as well.

The US definitely has a fair way to go until it's literally overdebted though. I'd probably say in practical terms the US could fairly readily service twice the debt it has now so long as the overall economic situation is more or less comparable to today. End of the day a constant debt load will inflate away slowly and becomes more manageable so long as the economy is growing and so long as it is a constant overall debt. The big but though is the Confidence issue, and the probability of a rival trying to spike the US if she looks vulnerable.

(I'd be pretty surprised if a lot of US politicians didn't have plans to 'take advantage of' any economic chaos though, at least in the abstract sense. The 2008 bail outs went largely to vested interests deeply connected to multiple politicians, and in many cases rather than punishing them for stupidity or irresponsibility effectively rewarded them as smaller and less connected rivals went or were allowed to go bankrupt, or were bought up by their larger rivals on the cheap)

[BruceVC]

15 hours ago, ShadySands said:

 

 

 

I've personally been told to go back to various different places usually depending on where I am in the country. Though to be fair to the racists, because everyone needs a break, I'm decently tough to pin down since my (ancient alien) ancestors are from figurative literally everywhere.

 

Interesting enough I have also been told to " go back to Europe "  because Im white and therefore Im automatically a colonialist and I dont belong in Africa  but there is context and nuance to this 

Firstly no one has told me that to my face, this is comments I have heard sometimes and  from small groups of people in the media and on talk shows. I have never taken it seriously or even become upset about it because its so ridiculous and irrelevant. But its still said 

So typically the debate in SA around this is about " can white people call themselves African" and its always non-white people having this debate. My response to this if I participated in the debate would be 

• I dont refer to myself as an African, I am a South African 
• What defines citizenship and identity is basically 2 things, what does your ID say and who do you identify with. In other words do you consider yourself to be a citizen and are you legally a citizen. Other peoples opinions on this should become inconsequential because for me I was born in SA and I am a citizen 

 

So Shady  Im not suggesting my own experience on being told " go home "  is the same as yours but I have also faced similar comments from small groups of so called activists and historical commentators

[Gorth]

16 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Trump is throwing that out the window.

Hey, we're talking about a guy with several high profile bankruptcies behind him. Not sure how anyone expected him to manage a national economy any better

 

Anyone wanna bet it's why he's trying everything short of just ordering airstrikes on Tehran, casus belli be damned, to start the war he wants so badly. Hard to impeach a president in the middle of a war, so he need it badly.

 

Maybe he's waiting for Boris Johnson to take over in London, because that guy has shown beyond any doubt that he has neither shame nor spine. He'll be busy wiggling his little bottom in the air, spreading his butt cheeks with his hands, trying to appear as appealing to Trump as possible. Once he's secure in the role as Ttrumps inflatable doll, the UK will jump and lead the charge wherever Trumps points them, because they (the UK) need whatever scraps of trade agreements they can get.