Lets Get Political

[Malcador]

19 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I always wondered if Trump suffers from some kind of small **** complex, envying people like Kim, Xi, Putin etc. for the power they wield over their subjects.

Seems like that is it, well or at least just NPD and the ensuing need for admiration.

[ManifestedISO]

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

I always wondered if Trump suffers from some kind of small **** complex, envying people like Kim, Xi, Putin etc. for the power they wield over their subjects.

This has been raised several times by political analysts and its an interesting question,  why indeed does Trump embarrassingly and disconcerting seem to publicly endorse and have such nice things to say about many dictators and strongmen around the world?

There are several theories, I think its primarily because he literally admires the concept and thought of leaders who are not accountable and answerable to citizens and Democratic institutions like the media and independent courts. He feels he would be a more effective leader without political  transparency and also that there are  groups of people in modern Democracies who " conspire " against him like the " evil, fake news media" 

But I also consider most dictators as dysfunctional sociopaths and the countries they govern are overall much worse places to live in than the USA so Trump is delusional and confused about his admiration for strongmen  because the things he likes about there policies would ultimately lead to the collapse of the USA  and degrading of overall quality of life for all Americans...including Trump. 

" In the  land of the blind the one -eyed man is king " 

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/16/world/trump-strongmen-erdogan-visit/index.html

 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

47 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

This has been raised several times by political analysts and its an interesting question,  why indeed does Trump embarrassingly and disconcerting seem to publicly endorse and have such nice things to say about many dictators and strongmen around the world?

There are several theories, I think its primarily because he literally admires the concept and thought of leaders who are not accountable and answerable to citizens and Democratic institutions like the media and independent courts. He feels he would be a more effective leader without political  transparency and also that there are  groups of people in modern Democracies who " conspire " against him like the " evil, fake news media" 

But I also consider most dictators as dysfunctional sociopaths and the countries they govern are overall much worse places to live in than the USA so Trump is delusional and confused about his admiration for strongmen  because the things he likes about there policies would ultimately lead to the collapse of the USA  and degrading of overall quality of life for all Americans...including Trump.

I'm not a shrink, but I could easily imagine Trump on the podium at the Nuremberg Rally in 1933, enjoying the adulation of the masses, he would fit the profile like a hand in a glove. I dismissed his initial lies as the typical election lies that all politicians give the voters. Not sure anybody really believe election promises (although I'll make allowances for the Fox News audience, but I don't exactly hold them in high regard, unless you read/watch it for the giggles). What made me start thinking this guy has a serious problem with truth and the real world was the lies and exaggerations around his inauguration and the crowd sizes. Hence my comment above about his envy of totalitarian rulers, which can just order a sizeable crowd out on the streets.

 

Edited for weird Friday afternoon spelling techniques applied

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Gorth said:

I'm not a shrink, but I could easily imagine Trump on the podium at the Nuremberg Rally in 1933, enjoying the adulation of the masses, he would fit the profile like a hand in a glove. I dismissed his initial lies as the typical election lies that all politicians give the voters. Not sure anybody really believe election promises (although I'll make allowances for the Fox News audience, but I don't exactly hold them in high regard, unless you read/watch it for the giggles). The I started think this guy has a serious problem with truth and real world was the lies and exaggerations around his inauguration and the crowd sizes. Hence my comment above about his envy of totalitarian rulers, which can just order a sizeable crowd out on the streets.

 " Trump on the podium at the Nuremberg Rally in 1933 " ....excellent analogy Gorthfuscious, I can also imagine Trump loving that type of event 

[bringingyouthefuture]

Happy 4th of July (this is me getting political) ...

[teknoman2]

i was watching a video about US politics and it said that according to studies, the average left leaning person in USA today is so far left that socialists from 10 years ago are seen as right wingers today.

meanwhile here in Greece, the average right winger has gone so far right that the conservatives of 10 years ago are seen as communists today.

[Guard Dog]

20 hours ago, smjjames said:

He changed it to independent, slightly surprised he didn't change it to Libertarian given his well known Libertarian-ness.

I imagine there are a few good reasons. He's making a lot of hay by pointing out the corrosive effects of partisan party politics. To jump into another party would undermine whatever juice he's gotten from that. Also the LP is highly dysfunctional and has very little help to offer candidates to be worth the affiliation. They CAN help with ballot access and the like but he's an incumbent and in the news right now.  So there is little they can do for him to be worth the detriments that LP affiliation brings. And there are detriments. Believe me.  

[Bartimaeus]

Trump thinks we had airports in 1775, gets Revolutionary War details confused with War of 1812? It was supposedly a scripted speech, how did no-one catch at least the airport one? ...Trump's constant stream of gaffes might make him a pretty funny guy if he both had zero power and didn't also happen to be a revolting human being...but then we probably wouldn't care if that were the case.

[Guard Dog]

Tusli Gabbard gave a very non-democrat campaign message last week: https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/07/04/gabbard-campaign-message-lets-take-patriotism-back/

 

Quote

Most of all, I love our freedom. The freedom endowed by our creator. The freedom that is enshrined in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. The freedom we fight to protect: 

Freedom of speech and of the press 
Freedom of religion
The right to bear arms
Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure 
The right to a fair and public trial 
Freedom from cruel and unusual punishment 

Well, that's that. She is a true "enemy of the people" now. Democrats don't believe in any of that. Not for everyone at least. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

12 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Tusli Gabbard gave a very non-democrat campaign message last week: https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/07/04/gabbard-campaign-message-lets-take-patriotism-back/

 

Well, that's that. She is a true "enemy of the people" now. Democrats don't believe in any of that. Not for everyone at least. 

GD dont you think this word freedom is used selectively and means different things to different people ?

For example I believe in freedom but the rule of law and order needs to be maintained and also I dont believe in  the freedom that dictators assume they have in illegitimate governments where there was no real Democratic process to elect them hence making them valid targets of sustainable regime change 

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Trump thinks we had airports in 1775, gets Revolutionary War details confused with War of 1812? It was supposedly a scripted speech, how did no-one catch at least the airport one? ...Trump's constant stream of gaffes might make him a pretty funny guy if he both had zero power and didn't also happen to be a revolting human being...but then we probably wouldn't care if that were the case.

Maybe he just needs eyeglasses.  That must be it.

[Skarpen]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Trump thinks we had airports in 1775, gets Revolutionary War details confused with War of 1812? It was supposedly a scripted speech, how did no-one catch at least the airport one? ...Trump's constant stream of gaffes might make him a pretty funny guy if he both had zero power and didn't also happen to be a revolting human being...but then we probably wouldn't care if that were the case.

It's not about being factually correct it's about being morally right.

[Pidesco]

lolzorz

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

It's not about being factually correct it's about being morally right.

Its similar to " alternative facts " right skarpen 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Amentep
Use other posters usernames

[Guard Dog]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

GD dont you think this word freedom is used selectively and means different things to different people ?

For example I believe in freedom but the rule of law and order needs to be maintained and also I dont believe in  the freedom that dictators assume they have in illegitimate governments where there was no real Democratic process to elect them hence making them valid targets of sustainable regime change 

Some people equate the words freedom and democracy. They shouldn't. Not the same things. If you have the latter you probably get the former. But not necessarily. The USSR was "democratic" in that it held elections, even if they were not a sham the opportunity to choose your leaders does not make you free. There is a school of thought that the actions of a duly elected legislative body can't be illegal because the very act of electing them gives them the mandate of the people. Nothing could be father from the truth. Slavery for example was legal and popular and democratically mandated and because of it people were not free. So even if there is a democratic process he end result is not always freedom. As far a regime change goes, IMO that is solely the responsibility of the people under the regime. No one else. The Colonists did not ask the French or Spanish to fight the Brits for them, they lined themselves up in Lexington MA on a hot April morning with muskets in hand. I would not trade on drop of American blood to change any government on this Earth no matter how vile it may be. Not. Our. Responsibility. 

And if history has taught us anything such an action usually leaves the people of those countries fewer, worse off, and very ungrateful.  

 

 

[Guard Dog]

6 hours ago, Skarpen said:

It's not about being factually correct it's about being morally right.

[HoonDing]

"Trump thinks"

no he doesn't

[213374U]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

There is a school of thought that the actions of a duly elected legislative body can't be illegal because the very act of electing them gives them the mandate of the people. Nothing could be father from the truth. Slavery for example was legal and popular and democratically mandated and because of it people were not free. So even if there is a democratic process he end result is not always freedom.

Interesting. Maybe consider applying that same reasoning to the private ownership of capital goods.

And... weren't the French majorly involved in the American Revolutionary War? Happily for the rebels, Louis XVI had a rather cavalier attitude regarding "French blood".

[Skarpen]

17 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Interesting. Maybe consider applying that same reasoning to the private ownership of capital goods.

And how exactly would that apply to capital goods? Are capital goods freedom or democracy in this situation?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

20 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Interesting. Maybe consider applying that same reasoning to the private ownership of capital goods.

And... weren't the French majorly involved in the American Revolutionary War? Happily for the rebels, Louis XVI had a rather cavalier attitude regarding "French blood".

I agree, but legality is a spook to begin with. The legitimacy of the state does not come from any natural law or diety, it comes from wielded force and exists to perpetuate itself and support the class that (largely) composes it.

[Guard Dog]

3 hours ago, 213374U said:

 

And... weren't the French majorly involved in the American Revolutionary War? Happily for the rebels, Louis XVI had a rather cavalier attitude regarding "French blood".

 

French involvement came in the form of muskets, powder, shot, and money. And it was integral. But aside from a handful of notable volunteers like L'Enfant and Layfayette French soldiers did not participate. Not the same thing as regime change in the modern world. Like Iraq for example. 

Of course it would be fair to say French blood was shed BECAUSE of the revolution. Monetary and military aid to the US added to an already desperate economic crisis that was one of the root causes to the French revolution. A far nastier and bloodier mess than we had to deal with. 

[smjjames]

33 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

French involvement came in the form of muskets, powder, shot, and money. And it was integral. But aside from a handful of notable volunteers like L'Enfant and Layfayette French soldiers did not participate. Not the same thing as regime change in the modern world. Like Iraq for example.

I'd call taking a major part in the last campaign in the Revolutionary War more than a handful. Not to mention being responsible for the decisive naval battle during the same campaign. Not sure where you're getting that French soldiers did not participate.

[Zoraptor]

Heh, gazumped. de Grasse really should be remembered a lot more by the US than Lafayette is.

[Malcador]

27 minutes ago, smjjames said:

 Not sure where you're getting that French soldiers did not participate.

The Patriot ?