Priest weak?

[tedmann12]

Hi,

 

Playing right now on TB on veteran and I feel like Xoti is so weak. I have her as a pure priest, level 4. The problem is she can only cast 2 level 1 spells and 1 level 2 spell. Most these spells last 1 our 2 rounds and then she just kinda sits there missing all her attacks.

 

Are priests supposed to have so little amount of spells? Feel like they should some more spells per encounter.

[thelee]

Hi,

 

Playing right now on TB on veteran and I feel like Xoti is so weak. I have her as a pure priest, level 4. The problem is she can only cast 2 level 1 spells and 1 level 2 spell. Most these spells last 1 our 2 rounds and then she just kinda sits there missing all her attacks.

 

Are priests supposed to have so little amount of spells? Feel like they should some more spells per encounter.

 

this is also how wizards and druids work.

 

this is also essentially how casters worked in every infinity-engine-style game e.g. limited casts per fight (in classic D&D wizards in fact start off with one cast per day, much less per encounter). if you're coming from a different RPG context (final fantasy, diablo, elder scrolls, etc.) this may be a culture shock. TB might exacerbate the limited cast feeling.

 

i assure you though, priests are not weak.

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee

[tedmann12]

nah, I still play all the bg games and icewind dale. I just feel like the combination of such a small amount of spells per encounter and being on turn based and the spells lasting such a short time seems a little underwhelming. But I am only level 4 so that might change.

[Elric Galad]

If you read the current TB Betas subforum, you'd see that there seems to be a bunch of problem about the way duration/action is currently managed.

 

Many effects simply have too short durations at the moment. 

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

xoti can pull her weight just with blessing at early levels, which should be her first action every fight. have her use that and a one handed weapon with no shield and she'll have like +17 to her accuracy if ur struggling to hit folk. i feel going one-handed would be overkill personally, but its there as an option.

 

iirc every class packs the same base accuracy in deadfire, as opposed to poe1. u should be able to bring her up to speed one way or another.

[Nights86]

Actually unlike other priests xoti has some high impact at low levels in the form of blessed harvest

[mydnightscrivener]

'Vancian' casters in generally are very powerful in Deadfire, because they typically start every combat by casting their most powerful spell. While the priest, being defensive oriented, does not 'wow', as much as the wizard, they make up for it by being more useful in drawn out battles, particularly against bosses.

[Nssheepster]

IDK about TB mode specifically, but... Priests as a whole are not weak. Priests THEMSELVES are. Why do I say it that way? Using a Priest for DPS is a bad idea. Using a Priest for a tank is a bad idea. They are very weak in either role. Xoti specifically can finish people off with Blessed Harvest, and that's really good... But she's an oddity. Priests are strong overall, because those buffs are AMAZING. If you want to use a Priest for anything but a buff bot, and occasionally killing people.... Don't? Just, don't. It's not that it's sub-optimal, I've done crazier things... It just doesn't really FUNCTION. If you use them as a tank, you slow down their buffs, and they still aren't as good as a regular tank. Their offensive spells are visibly weak, so DPS from spells isn't happening, and they don't have any self melee or ranged buffs for DPS that way.

TLDR Use them as intended, buff bots, they're good. Outside... Don't use them. (Granted, TB mode has different needs than usual, maybe the above mentioned duration thing will get patched)

[Elric Galad]

Priests do have nice nukes in their high PL (6 to 8 ). Also Shining Beacon at PL 4 but PL 4 is quite crowded, so.... Single Class priests can do reasonable damages on high levels.

Indeed Low PL aren't very good for Priest damages. Divine Mark is OK against single target, but is mostly interesting to help the rest of the party.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Elric Galad

[rjshae]

I use Xoti as my third front-line party member, mainly performing like a shield against weaker flank foes and chucking in beneficial buffs and protections plus supplemental attack spells. In that role she doesn't go down much and she helps shield the back line. Plus she's also frequently useful in cleanup actions toward the end when the other front line types go down or have to pull back to recover.

Edited January 31, 2019 by rjshae

[daven]

Priests weak? You having a laugh mate?

 

I won't leave house without one.

[deneweth]

I touched on this in a feedback post I made for turn based, but I believe a number of TB specific issues are greatly limiting the functionality of casters, priests especially.

 

RTWP:
It certainly feels like bless lasts an entire combat, or at least to the point where you've gotten enough advantage out of it that you outnumber whatever is left. 

Buffs like holy power and consecrated ground can be difficult to use and require planning and tactics, but are very powerful when used correctly.

 

After you run out of spells the tide of combat is already turned and you can safely auto attack, which can easily be interrupted mid-recovery to switch back to casting any remaining spells, or empowering yourself to cast more if needed.

 

 

 

TB:

Bless takes at least the "first round" to cast.  Even with high initiative the spell won't go off before your team acts.   You miss it for one turn and have to target it so it will get the party members that run in after you cast but before it goes off.  Bless lasts 5 turns I think.  It constantly runs out half way through the fight, sometimes a second casting runs out.

The small area spells that automatically center on the priest are terrible now.   There is a much greater risk of being interrupted since the cast time may give multiple enemies their entire turn to move over and attack or ranged.  You still have to very carefully aim, but also have to keep your party in the area until the spell goes off, or the duration in the case of consecrated ground.  Even when used right these feel weak to me.  Consecrated ground takes too long to respond and has to be used preemptively.  Turn based combat seems to move around more making it harder to stay in the effect.

Outside of spells the priest lacks accuracy or HP to do much combat, even ranged -which is more dangerous because of how easy it is to close the gap and attack/engage in 1 turn- is weak.  Committing a whole turn to a graze or miss feels very punishing.  Holy radiance is the one thing that feels incredibly powerful in turn based since it's instant, and more or less an I win button against enemies that it will damage, that being said it was nearly as powerful in real time.


Over all the issue isn't that priests aren't useful, they are, it's that I'd rather bring another fighter over Xoti easily.  I know her stats are spread around, but with +2 power level on the lantern I would *hope* her buffs are at least comparable in duration to an 18 int PC.  I had a lot of the same issues with Aloth due to area targeting being more difficult and low hp/accuracy.  Having more free action buffs helps the wizard class a lot.  The abilities (and game) not being designed for TB really shows here.  This is a very early game analysis though.  It is possible that low durations are fixed with higher power levels and cast times may be alleviated with +dex gear.

[Verde]

Priests below PL4 blow. Once they hit PL4 they get some nifty spells and it's all uphill from there.

 

I'm currently playing a Wael/Lifegiver and it's tons of fun. Is it balls to the wall PotD solo with blindfolds good? I dunno, but it's serving it's purpose and I'm having fun from both a RP and gameplay perspective.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Verde

[thelee]

Priests below PL4 blow. Once they hit PL4 they get some nifty spells and it's all uphill from there.

 

I'm currently playing a Wael/Lifegiver and it's tons of fun. Is it balls to the wall PotD solo with blindfolds good? I dunno, but it's serving it's purpose and I'm having fun from both a RP and gameplay perspective.

 

Holy Power, Blessing, Dire Blessing, Restore, Halt, Pillar of Faith, Prayer for the Spirit, Consecrated Ground, Despondent Blows, Iconic Projection, Spiritual Weapon, etc. are all great abilities available in the earlier spell slots. Subclasses can get even more (Magran, Wael, Skaen especially, and Woedica for their fists).

[Nssheepster]

Iconic Projection? The slow moving line spell that does a negligible amount of freeze damage and a tiny, tiny heal? THAT is a great ability, at L2? 16 damage, if you hit an enemy with it, OFC you don't have pen for freeze.... or 20 HP for whatever allies you catch in it. 20. That's it. That's one hit for a non-tank character in my playthroughs.

 

I would severely hesitate to call THAT, of all things, great. As well as some of the others you listed.

[thelee]

Iconic Projection? The slow moving line spell that does a negligible amount of freeze damage and a tiny, tiny heal? THAT is a great ability, at L2? 16 damage, if you hit an enemy with it, OFC you don't have pen for freeze.... or 20 HP for whatever allies you catch in it. 20. That's it. That's one hit for a non-tank character in my playthroughs.

 

I would severely hesitate to call THAT, of all things, great. As well as some of the others you listed.

 

Restore heals only 30 health in a much tighter radius, without any damage, and is still a very easy first pick at AL1. Iconic Projection is slower but can heal an entirely spread out party, while also getting in free damage. It works especially well in multiples.

 

And actually, 20 is quite a bit less than one hit for a non-tank character in any reasonably challenging playthrough, most of my non-tanks can barely withstand more than a few hits of dedicated punishment before knockout, even with Tough. The point is not sustain, but buying time or recovering after getting to safety. If you're relying on priest instant heals to sustain party in a tough fight, you're doing it wrong; I'm not sure I would even consider priest a top 3 overall healer, their main benefit to healing is selection and the instantaneous nature of most of their heals.

 

And I stand by my assessment. What else is "wrong" about what I picked?

Edited February 2, 2019 by thelee

[Ophiuchus]

Cleansing Flame doesn't seem to get a lot of love (it seems weaker compared to PoE1) but it deals a nice chunk of damage in a short window.

[Gromnir]

one priest spell we never see anybody give love to is warding seal. underrated.  nice accuracy. cast outside o' combat for a functional free use per encounter.  is an aoe providing interrupts on hit, which is particular nice at start o' combat when every foe is unleashing powhaz. as warding seal may be cast outside o' combat and has a lengthy duration, it may be empowered and the empower-per-encounter will regenerate before you need initiate a combat sequence. warding seal is not gonna do huge damage even when empowered, so no doubt folks is disappointed, but am thinking the spell has considerable use which tends to go unnoticed.

 

now admitted, if am only having a single buff-bot priest in a party, warding seal is not gonna be a priority, but for micromanagers such as Gromnir, choosing the aoe lightning interrupt is a decent choice for a priestly multi-class.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

I like it. For Spell Level 3 the damage is actually pretty good, too. 

[Verde]

It looks like a mini hadouken. It's serviceable but I wouldn't call it great.

 

Dire blessing is pointless bc you get the much better blessing a few PLs later that adds 50% misses to grazes or whatever.

 

Now Druids on the other hand, they have some great low level spells, esp Tekehu.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Verde

[Boeroer]

You are confusing Blessing with Dire Blessing. Those two do different stuff.

[Verde]

Yeah, Blessing is +5 Per and Dire Blessing is +5 Per and +50% Graze to Hit, so I meant Blessing is pointless.

[Kilburn]

Well they were totally broken in pillars 1. I killed dragons and cleared maps just spamming iconic projection.

 

Warding deal and projection appear to be nerfed into the abyss.

 

Cipher is a wasteland of low duration and ****ty spells if it makes you feel better. Probably wizard got all the toys.

[Kilburn]

Yeah, Blessing is +5 Per and Dire Blessing is +5 Per and +50% Graze to Hit, so I meant Blessing is pointless.

The accuracy buff is one of few spells worth taking. Not sure why the might one needs to be so unnecessarily annoying.

[thelee]

It looks like a mini hadouken. It's serviceable but I wouldn't call it great.

Dire blessing is pointless bc you get the much better blessing a few PLs later that adds 50% misses to grazes or whatever.

Now Druids on the other hand, they have some great low level spells, esp Tekehu.

Dire Blessing *is* that spell.

 

The low-level AL1 buffs (Holy Power and Blessing) are still relevant later on because enemies also get better about using might and perception afflictions. Am I like the only one who tries to counter or protect their party members from these effects? +50% recovery time in particular is extremely brutal for anyone and given how common blind and disorient is I will use Blessing (even after getting Dire Blessing) to cancel them out.

Edited February 2, 2019 by thelee