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Please give us an optional third person camera.


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I would imagine allowing both FPV and TPV iisn't just a cosmetic change and it would generally screw up the shooting mechanics, for at least one of the perspectives. The Bethesda Fallout games, for instance, had terrible shooting, and I can only assume the ability to use both perspectives was part of it.

 

That was not the reason for it, Bethesda fallouts did not use shooting mechanics like "you point, you hit" it was more if your stats say you will miss, you will miss even if you are 1inch away from the enemy. NewVegas added actual aiming and using sights, so they are capable of doing it properly even when using ****ty engine

I don't think that was true outside of vats. I seem to recall skills affecting damage but not whether you could hit your target or not. Or perhaps that was just in New Vegas.

 

In any case, the aiming mechanics for third person shouldn't be the same as for first person. Allowing for the two should impact the design significantly.

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This narcissistic fascination with the third-person perspective that allows one to ogle oneself has always baffled me.

It isn't a form of narcissism, it's self-affirmation. It allows the player to root themselves in the world in a grounded sense and to perceive themselves as being a part of it, as opposed to just looking at it through one perspective. As someone who didn't grow up playing first person games, and rarely plays them today, it's comforting to be able to zoom out and see the character. I probably do it every 10-15 seconds while walking around in these kinds of games. 

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First post, adding that I want to see third person view.

Noticed that nobody mentioned 'Kingdom Come Deliverance', another FPV-only game who's developer position was staunchly defended by a core of real SOB's on forum who could not care less about a significant portion of gamers (perhaps even majority? who knows, no study done...) who get motion sick.  I get headache and at times nauseous as well.

 

I agree with KCD devs that their melee combat system was important to be in FPV, likely will be the same for TOW, but being able to switch between views just for moving around is important for those prone to motion sickness.

 

Please Obsidian, have a heart, don't leave us out.

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Also can add, there is a Kingdom Come Deliverance  mod for a TPV camera that works well when the player is on horseback -- horse is horrible if you are prone to motion sickness -- however, once off the horse the TPV looks terrible: the avatar animations are awful.  So one can see how much work needs to go into a proper TPV, I appreciate that, but doesn't make it more palatable as a player prone to motion sickness.

 

What I imagine is the case here, is that a TPV mod can be made and not be perfect but will help us out some.  But if the devs say they will provide a TPV and it isn't perfectly executed, well, there will be he!! to pay...

Edited by Bandy
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I would imagine allowing both FPV and TPV iisn't just a cosmetic change and it would generally screw up the shooting mechanics, for at least one of the perspectives. The Bethesda Fallout games, for instance, had terrible shooting, and I can only assume the ability to use both perspectives was part of it.

That was not the reason for it, Bethesda fallouts did not use shooting mechanics like "you point, you hit" it was more if your stats say you will miss, you will miss even if you are 1inch away from the enemy. NewVegas added actual aiming and using sights, so they are capable of doing it properly even when using ****ty engine

I don't think that was true outside of vats. I seem to recall skills affecting damage but not whether you could hit your target or not. Or perhaps that was just in New Vegas.

 

In any case, the aiming mechanics for third person shouldn't be the same as for first person. Allowing for the two should impact the design significantly.

 

I played Fallout:NV without using VATS just fine (I don't like VATS at all), the shooting mechanics were ok without it. I mean, it wasn't true fps shooter smooth, but it worked fine/wasn't a problem. But yeah that's not the same thing as 3rd person combat visual design/mechanics.

 

I remember when people wanted Borderlands in 3rd person. You could force it using some dev commands or something (I don't remember exactly) but while it sorta worked, it looked and felt awkward (aiming was off by a mile) and was obviously "unfinished"/not meant to be played that way. The indie survival alpha game 7 Days to Die also had a crude 3rd person that they tried to test but it was barely functional and they've never tried to improve it so hardly anyone uses it. It would definitely impact time/work to make both 1st and 3rd feel and behave "right".

 

Could they do both? Yes, if they felt it was worth their time and the way they've set up gameplay would work with both. No idea if they will, however.

 

As to viewing your character - I only care about that if they make fashion a big deal in the game. Why bother with collectable funny wizard hats or recoloring clothing (as example) if I can't see it. Especially if it's not even MP where at least you're dressing up for other players. Might've been ok in the paper-doll only days but not so much now, for me. That said, an idle/non-combat vanity-camera would be fine.

Edited by LadyCrimson
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I'd rather they don't waste time adding a third person if it takes resources away from other areas of the game. Polish is my priority.

 

Same here. I'd want them to hone the perspective they have work the best it can for an RPG.

 

 

 

 

And with that in mind, in this interview they said:

 

 

I know when we put our combat system together, it was really important that it be an RPG...

...

 

We really don't want people to be saying, "Wow, this is a great RPG, you know the combat is just okay, but the RPG stuff is great."

...

 

One of our goals is that we want combat to be fun. Obviously our combat isn't going to be as good as Call of Duty because that's not what we are here to do.

 

So, with their chosen perspective it would seem like FPS is the way to go. But rather than doing something that, to almost everyone, seems like a really tired FPS, they should more boldly lean towards the RPG side of it and try out other forms of design. I keep harping about this, but I just can't get over it.

Edited by Undecaf

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I was actually glad to know that it will be just first-person, just because it means that everything will be first-person and no third-person sections.  Not interested in third-person for myself at all, but i am not sure if its the best decision since so much people prefer it.

They should really make sure if is the best for the sales, and maybe make it easy to mod.

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Not interested in third-person for myself at all, but i am not sure if its the best decision since so much people prefer it.

They should really make sure if is the best for the sales, and maybe make it easy to mod.

 

Mikey has since added some clarification regarding his original statement.  Saying that The Outer Worlds will not include extended mod support or a third-person-camera wasn't just an attempt to gauge interest among the fanbase.  It is stuff that is legitimately not going to be on the roadmap due to time and resource constraints.

 

Even knowing now how the community would like to see them happen, such concepts will have to be revisited during later releases if the debut of TOW is a success.

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If there is no third person option please tell us as soon as you can so we do not waist any more time on this game and also to stop from pestering you.

 

I think they already have said so unfortunately, but as I posted at top of this page, a mod is always possible sometime after release, and this saved KCD for me and others.  So I'm not going to despair and will support this project, otherwise how are we going to continue to get good games from this proven game house? 

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Hopefully they will have 3rd person for future games, then, if they can't add it to this one. I don't buy games that are first-person only. Now that they are owned by Microsoft, they should have plenty of funding for future games.

Edited by keriana
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Hopefully they will have 3rd person for future games, then, if they can't add it to this one. I don't buy games that are first-person only. Now that they are owned by Microsoft, they should have plenty of funding for future games.

 

Second that, I really hate having a camera fixed on my character's stomach that bumps like if it was hold with grandma's ****. Plus it really breaks the immersion for me since it blocks my other 4 senses. The only time i saw a good FPS was in Doom and Doom 2, but sadly most people married with goldeneye's one.

Please, If you can add a third person camera i will remove my last doubt and will preorder this game as soon as possible

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Hopefully they will have 3rd person for future games, then, if they can't add it to this one. I don't buy games that are first-person only. Now that they are owned by Microsoft, they should have plenty of funding for future games.

 

Second that, I really hate having a camera fixed on my character's stomach that bumps like if it was hold with grandma's ****. Plus it really breaks the immersion for me since it blocks my other 4 senses. The only time i saw a good FPS was in Doom and Doom 2, but sadly most people married with goldeneye's one.

Please, If you can add a third person camera i will remove my last doubt and will preorder this game as soon as possible

 

 

Yes, if a first person game doesn't allow you to lick and sniff enemy robots, it's first person in name only.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've played First-Person games before and this "feeling of immersion" that people keep referring to never seems to manifest itself with me. All I ever get is lightheaded from the movement and the lack of proper peripheral vision. Along with this is the often bad sound design that made it difficult to determine from which direction something is coming/moving.

Come on Obsidian. Add a third person perspective. You can do this! You should do this!

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I've played First-Person games before and this "feeling of immersion" that people keep referring to never seems to manifest itself with me. All I ever get is lightheaded from the movement and the lack of proper peripheral vision. Along with this is the often bad sound design that made it difficult to determine from which direction something is coming/moving.

 

Come on Obsidian. Add a third person perspective. You can do this! You should do this!

They can't because there isn't enough money in their budget and they shouldn't for the same reason.

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If they want to add this option, fine for those who love, but personally I NEVER play a game like this in TPS view... it's just awful (especially when the title is planned for the view to the first person). For example in recent Fallout this view is extremely ugly (with poor animations).

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I'd rather they don't waste time adding a third person if it takes resources away from other areas of the game. Polish is my priority.

 

Same here. I'd want them to hone the perspective they have work the best it can for an RPG.

 

 

 

 

And with that in mind, in this interview they said:

 

 

I know when we put our combat system together, it was really important that it be an RPG...

...

 

We really don't want people to be saying, "Wow, this is a great RPG, you know the combat is just okay, but the RPG stuff is great."

...

 

One of our goals is that we want combat to be fun. Obviously our combat isn't going to be as good as Call of Duty because that's not what we are here to do.

 

So, with their chosen perspective it would seem like FPS is the way to go. But rather than doing something that, to almost everyone, seems like a really tired FPS, they should more boldly lean towards the RPG side of it and try out other forms of design. I keep harping about this, but I just can't get over it.

 

 

the issue is that i would preffer even a turn based final fantasy one rpg combat than a FPS one, i never found those fun after doom 2, name goldeneye, bioshock, halo, half life, metroid prime, those are games i won't touch with a stick at 20 feet... in fact, i even found redsteel frustrating, just liked the sword combat parts

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the issue is that i would preffer even a turn based final fantasy one rpg combat than a FPS one, i never found those fun after doom 2, name goldeneye, bioshock, halo, half life, metroid prime, those are games i won't touch with a stick at 20 feet... in fact, i even found redsteel frustrating, just liked the sword combat parts

One thing that has always proven true for first person games - whether retro or modern - is that turn-based does not work well because it's never good for pacing, strategy and immersion. It would be like playing X-Com in first person, it just would not work without feeling forced and awkward. Just look at the shameful first person turn-based dungeon-crawler rpg trash on GoG. I'm sure if someone found a good way to do turn-based, bigger AAA would be doing it but even Sqauresoft has gone the way of fast paced real-time.

 

Bioshock Infinite > Bioshock 2 > Bioshock > System Shock 2 > System Shock

 

Doom 2016 > Doom OG > Doom II

 

 

 

Do you see what is happening? As games evolve, they become better but only if devs learn from past mistakes.

 

You are missing out on some great games.

 

 

 

 

 

As for The Outer Worlds, it won't have a stupid VATS system but it will have a bullet-time so that will work nicely. Makes so much more sense and to me, doesn't "feel" like Obsidian saying "Let's just fill in things/features to make Fallout fans happy" but more of an effort to improvetye Fallout formulas. That's why the game will be better than New Vegas and Fallout 3... Nit going to say it will be better than Fallout 4 since Fallout 4 has a bunch of features and depth that The Outer Worlds won't be able to touch on. And that's okay, since Fallout 4 is more survival and base-building than rpg.

Edited by SonicMage117

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One thing that has always proven true for first person games - whether retro or modern - is that turn-based does not work well because it's never good for pacing, strategy and immersion.

 

man, like, i dont expect everyone to know - or care - about the history of the genre but... wizardry was kind of a big deal, to the point where it spawned *every* jrpg. it must have worked well on some level to have all those kids.

 

even Sqauresoft has gone the way of fast paced real-time.

 

squaresoft debuted their Active Time Battle system in 1991. incidentally, shin megami tensei thrives to this day with its core largely intact.

 

like i aint one to stew in the past, but we're kinda getting into alternative universe territory here.

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