How does PoE II Compare to PoE?

[Wormerine]

BoW not as good as White March 0_o? I will have to vehemently disagree with you there. White March was just a hodgepodge of random content jammed together with wayyyy too much fighting. It was disjointed imho.

 

BoW on the other hand is one of the best narrative pieces Obsidian has done in either game. And instead of just throwing tons of random enemies at you, BoW provides backstory and puzzles. And don't even get me started on White March II. That was just an overall terrible expansion and had no business being made.

Really? I still see White Marches as the best content made in Pillars of Eternity, with great storytelling, memorable fights, best city (or village) in the game, best combat dungeon (Durgan's Battery), best puzzle/choose your approach dungeon (Abbey of the Fallen Moon).

 

BoW is a nice sidequest for the main game, White March is a proper journey on its own. Not intending on bashing Bow - it's a great addition.

[xzar_monty]

I would have to agree. From what I have seen, the White Marches are the best things in the PoE universe, so far. (I believe I have seen slightly less than half of Deadfire.)

[Verde]

Welp to each their own! It's certainly a subjective matter.

[house2fly]

 

The "economy" in an RPG is the money you get vs the stuff you can spend it on. In most RPGs you'll get a lot of money pretty quickly because you don't really NEED to buy much. You get a ton of money in Deadfire but there's also a lot to spend it on, so you won't end up with a million cp in your account unless you specifically want to

I'm at level 9 now, and apart from the four or five tools available (crowbar, grappling hook, etc., the absolutely essential stuff you don't want to be without in a scripted encounter), I have not bought anything. There has been no need. Actually, come to think of it: I have bought one thing that gives +2 might.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but so far it seems to me that Deadfire is identical to PoE in the sense that there is almost nothing to be bought in the game.

 

Like in PoE, I also have not used potions at all, except for the two occasions I tried potions of moderate healing.

the unique weapons for sale are very expensive, as are the high-level upgrades. You spend more money on your ship crew and such (wages/food to keep morale high). There's not much you're forced to buy, but certainly there's more to spend money on than PoE1. I like to get and upgrade all the unique weapons, which in this game isn't easy to do

[bringingyouthefuture]

POE2 is better than POE1(including expansions).   Hehe ...

 

 

Edit - sorry was trolling a little - haven't finished the entire game but so far I like it better

Edited October 19, 2018 by aaronghowell

[Purudaya]

 

The "economy" in an RPG is the money you get vs the stuff you can spend it on. In most RPGs you'll get a lot of money pretty quickly because you don't really NEED to buy much. You get a ton of money in Deadfire but there's also a lot to spend it on, so you won't end up with a million cp in your account unless you specifically want to

 

I'm at level 9 now, and apart from the four or five tools available (crowbar, grappling hook, etc., the absolutely essential stuff you don't want to be without in a scripted encounter), I have not bought anything. There has been no need. Actually, come to think of it: I have bought one thing that gives +2 might.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but so far it seems to me that Deadfire is identical to PoE in the sense that there is almost nothing to be bought in the game.

 

Like in PoE, I also have not used potions at all, except for the two occasions I tried potions of moderate healing.

 

 

There are some items absolutely worth purchasing - Dragon's Dowry and the Devil of Caroc breastplate in Neketaka, Grave Calling at Crookspur, Squid's Grasp in Dunnage, Assassin's Boots at the Deck of Many Things...

 

I don't remember anything worth buying/affordable at level 9 either, but it doesn't stay that way

[Marceror]

POE2 is better than POE1(including expansions).   Hehe ...

 

 

Edit - sorry was trolling a little - haven't finished the entire game but so far I like it better

 

Is it trolling if that's how you honestly feel (so far at least)?

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

POE2 is better than POE1(including expansions).   Hehe ...

 

 

Edit - sorry was trolling a little - haven't finished the entire game but so far I like it better

 

Is it trolling if that's how you honestly feel (so far at least)?

 

 

Well havn't finished yet so can't really say for sure, I have read some critiques about the later game that I have yet to experience ...

Edited October 19, 2018 by aaronghowell

[thelee]

Re: economy. You don't have to spend the money you accumulate on things (even on PotD with upscaling), but the major difference with PoE1 is that you can, and if you choose to you may find yourself constrained. In PoE1, basically once you started fighting enemies that dropped fine equipment, all considerations of cost flew out the window. 

 

My take on deadfire:

- i don't miss the 6th party member (by the end, I was playing reduced party sizes in poe1 anyway just for the challenge).

- i miss the talent system from poe1, but i like the larger build diversity/design space multi-classing has opened up. in the end, thumbs up.

- combat feels a lot better.

- the main story kind of ends anticlimactically, but the world itself feels much more like a place to explore rather than "ok now here's the next wilderness area". Beast of Winter DLC helps patch in the weakness of the main story (and honestly has a segment that I would consider narratively the best in the entire PoE/PoE2 franchise so far)

- factions are much better fleshed out. (Honestly barely even registered the factions in Twin Elms, and it was way too easy to align/piss off factions in Defiance Bay)

- there's no equivalent to the 15-level dungeon (closest is probably Old City or Oathkeeper's Sanctum, and both are just 3 maps each), but SSS DLC helps scratch my itch for grindy-combat.

 

I thought PoE1 was the closest to my platonic ideal for a party-based CRPG, but PoE2 has edged that out. PoE1 is dead, long live PoE2!

[Verde]

The thing is, POE2 has some seriously good combat. That helps a lot, but isn't everything.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Verde

[anameforobsidian]

 

The "economy" in an RPG is the money you get vs the stuff you can spend it on. In most RPGs you'll get a lot of money pretty quickly because you don't really NEED to buy much. You get a ton of money in Deadfire but there's also a lot to spend it on, so you won't end up with a million cp in your account unless you specifically want to

 

I'm at level 9 now, and apart from the four or five tools available (crowbar, grappling hook, etc., the absolutely essential stuff you don't want to be without in a scripted encounter), I have not bought anything. There has been no need. Actually, come to think of it: I have bought one thing that gives +2 might.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but so far it seems to me that Deadfire is identical to PoE in the sense that there is almost nothing to be bought in the game.

 

Like in PoE, I also have not used potions at all, except for the two occasions I tried potions of moderate healing.

 

 

There's quite a lot worth spending money on.  Enchantments first and foremost.  Or building weapons.  The slaver's fort has one of the best estocs in the game for sale.  Etc.

Edited October 20, 2018 by anameforobsidian

[Marceror]

What about ships? Seems like you could spend a fortune on those.

[anameforobsidian]

I'm sort of thinking with my keyboard and revising my earlier post, but I'm really struck by some of the weird tensions when comparing the two.

 

Pillars 2 has much better level design, but little to no expansive dungeons to show it off in.

Pillars 2 has much better build design, but no new races or classes.

Pillars 2 has much better factions, but the world is so modular that the factions barely interact with each other.

Pillars 2 has much better encounter design, but usually you'll end up using the same build specific spells or abilities in every fight. 

Pillars 2 has a better reputation system for party reactions, but fewer companions to take advantage of it.

 

This has led me to be deeply ambivalent about the game.  I feel like it is more competent but less ambitious.  I feel like combat has a lot more things you can do, but less things you will do once you're playing. 

 

The DLCs deepen my ambivalence.  The White March rectified the weaknesses of the base game.  The two DLCs are ambitious and provide worthwhile experiences, but do nothing to fix the weaknesses of the game (ship to ship combat, more faction interaction).  The base game is too modular/ siloed, with the various pieces of good level design bound by a weak narrative.  Beast of Winter adds a very modular dungeon with one piece of great level design (the bridge) and a relatively weak unifying narrative.  Seeker adds some really good fights, fantastic text scenes, and some weakly interacting factions to a game that already has that.  Both add some great high end items when the game needs more lower mid tier items.  They don't do the unsexy work of fixing the stronghold or providing more faction specific interactions.

Edited October 20, 2018 by anameforobsidian

[neotemplar]

Well, I play RPGs since 1997 and Deadfire is the only game I rated "10" on metacritic. I also bought it twice. I've never regret any of these actions.

 

Compared to PoE 1... it's like Terminator 2 compared to T1 - it is better, bigger, more polished and extremely close to perfection, but the original has a bit different vibe and atmosphere. Or think about Fallout 2 compared to Fallout 1.

 

Party size was a big holywar drama, but I personally had no problem with it. At high levels managing your party with numerous abilities feels like flying a plane, with 6 members it would be a nightmare for me. Maybe I'm not hardcore enough

 

DLCs - I'm waiting for full release of all three. I started Beast of Winter, after a huge pause, looked at my max level party (remember - airplane ****pit), realised I forgot everything and will need to start a new game, so decided to get them all first. 

 

Editing - don't get why it bothers you so much

 

Anyway, Deadfire is insane, best experience of the year.

 

Edit: airplane cabin. c*o*c*k*pit is censored lol

Edited October 20, 2018 by neotemplar

[Verde]

Well, I play RPGs since 1997 and Deadfire is the only game I rated "10" on metacritic. I also bought it twice. I've never regret any of these actions.

 

Compared to PoE 1... it's like Terminator 2 compared to T1 - it is better, bigger, more polished and extremely close to perfection, but the original has a bit different vibe and atmosphere. Or think about Fallout 2 compared to Fallout 1.

 

Party size was a big holywar drama, but I personally had no problem with it. At high levels managing your party with numerous abilities feels like flying a plane, with 6 members it would be a nightmare for me. Maybe I'm not hardcore enough

 

DLCs - I'm waiting for full release of all three. I started Beast of Winter, after a huge pause, looked at my max level party (remember - airplane ****pit), realised I forgot everything and will need to start a new game, so decided to get them all first.

 

Editing - don't get why it bothers you so much

 

Anyway, Deadfire is insane, best experience of the year.

 

Edit: airplane cabin. c*o*c*k*pit is censored lol

My only concession with PoE1 vs PoE2 is the first had a much more interesting and engaging story. Sure PoE2 starts off great but once you know how many quests the main story spans, it's just disappointment. Please the common dilemma of urgent main quest + urge to explore.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Giving a 10 to Deadfire is not a realistic score. Assuming everything is perfect in regards to roleplaying games, you're left with the performance issues. That alone must bring the score down. 

[neotemplar]

Giving a 10 to Deadfire is not a realistic score. Assuming everything is perfect in regards to roleplaying games, you're left with the performance issues. That alone must bring the score down. 

 

There is no such thing as "realistic" score. There are personal experiences rated via comparison to previous experiences.

 

It all depends on your system of measurement. For me 10 is not "perfect in every aspect", for me 10 is about "best overall experience in a certain genre". I'm sure Deadfire is the best representative of CRPG genre to this date.

 

Because if you reserve 10 for hypothetical perfection, you basically operate in 1-9 grade instead of 1-10 and de-value the whole grade system.

 

I remember my math teacher, she ignored the "5" grade (my country uses 1-5 grade system @ schools), reserving it for a perfect solution. In the end everyone just assumed that 4 is 5, and her reservation just had zero sense, no one tried to be better no more.

 

I give the highest grade to the best existing game in comparison to others, not to my imaginary flawless messiah of videogames, you are free to rate through any method you see fit.

Edited October 20, 2018 by neotemplar

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Perhaps mine would have been a 10 without the performance issues? 

[gloomseeker]

Well, I play RPGs since 1997 and Deadfire is the only game I rated "10" on metacritic. I also bought it twice. I've never regret any of these actions.

 

Compared to PoE 1... it's like Terminator 2 compared to T1 - it is better, bigger, more polished and extremely close to perfection, but the original has a bit different vibe and atmosphere. Or think about Fallout 2 compared to Fallout 1.

 

 

I played both at release and clearly Fallout 2 was a joke compared to Fallout 1.

 

Sure, Fallout 2 was bigger and added many interesting mechanics but it was also filled to the rim with terrible jokes and silly references. Take away all the inane references to movies and you have the best Fallout game but as it stands Fallout 1 was more subdued and as a result it did work as a roleplaying experience whereas Fallout 2 was nothing more than a spoof.

 

Fallout 2 was the Monty Python's Fallout game and as a result it could never compare to the original.

 

It's the same as playing a pen and paper RPG and having the Game Master breaking out of character all the time to crack some jokes. That sort of thing may look like fun but it does grow old pretty fast. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by gloomseeker

[neotemplar]

Perhaps mine would have been a 10 without the performance issues? 

No matter how you rate it, you'll be right in your own personal way.

 

I know how bad Unity engine can be and I think what they managed to squeeze out of it is a technical wonder.

Long loading is inevitable in Unity. It's very hard to make maps really beautiful in Unity. 

 

Obsidian has been nominated at the upcoming annual Unity awards like in 3 most important nominations, I agree with it. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by neotemplar

[Zangobar]

A mixed bag for me. I like the story of the first game much more but the mechanics are better in the second. An enhanced version of the first game would be super cool.

[xzar_monty]

For me the only CRPG so far to be worth a 10 is Baldur's Gate II (excluding the Throne of Bhaal). PoE would be approximately an 8.5 or a 9-. Cannot definitely say about Deadfire yet, but I'd wager it's pretty much the same. Not better, not worse.

[Verde]

Giving a 10 to Deadfire is not a realistic score. Assuming everything is perfect in regards to roleplaying games, you're left with the performance issues. That alone must bring the score down.

It also has some other glaring issues that are hard to argue against. Has serious bugs, both mechanically, in dialogue, and quest breaking/wonkiness. I mean if it resonates w someone, sure they think it's a 10. But if it was a more serious review, trying to be objective, it's hard to consider it a 10.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Verde

[thelee]

Giving a 10 to Deadfire is not a realistic score. Assuming everything is perfect in regards to roleplaying games, you're left with the performance issues. That alone must bring the score down. 

 

Performance issues aren't universal though. I have like a 6 year old processor but an nvidia 1060 (though apparently people are struggling with nvidias) and I have 0 performance issues.

[Archaven]

I'm just now getting around to starting Pillars of Eternity II. I was just curious how the community around here has received this title, and whether it is considered an improvement over the original game. And what specifically do you like/dislike about it?

 

I notice that the party size has been reduced from 6 to 5. That's a slight bummer to me, but I suppose it's not that big of a deal. Especially with multiclassing it would seem you could still have all of the key roles represented. It definitely is pleasing on the eye, and the voice acting is very well done.

 

How are the the expansions/DLCs? My pledge this time around does not include them, so I would need to purchase these separately.

 

 

EDIT: Yeah, I made a minor edit to this post. WHO CARES!?

 

EDIT 2: I mean, other than Obsidian, who apparently thinks it's super important for the world to be notified about this!!

 

EDIT 3: Fine, fine. I added a word I had originally left out, and changed a period to a question mark, because I was asking a question. I have come to HATE this aspect of this forum, in case you weren't aware. And dorky Obsidian can't even make any sort of comment about it whatsoever. Dorks!!

 

i think deadfire is an improvement over first pillar. the idea is revolve with multi-class. that's what i have the most fun of. in my opinion, deadfire shouldn't have single class. every character should multi-class and they should be able to freely pick any skills they want upon leveling. now, some skills are locked behind power level to favor single class which is a bummer for me. deadfire has some great ideas but i dont get the idea of procs. some of the procs were far too low (because they tune it for aoe procs). what they could have done maybe procs based on the first engage target? they can have some aoe procs too but they can fiddle with that balance.

 

there are many things that can be improved on for deadfire. at the moment there are still quite a number of bugs but otherwise it's really an enjoying game for me!