God Challenges Feedback!

[Walter.Richards]

 

  (and the storms should be invisible, so the player doesn't know when one is being entered!)

 

... not sure how one would not know what the weather is, in their line of sight.

Maybe you mean the storms don't appear on maps?

[Mallard]

 

 

  (and the storms should be invisible, so the player doesn't know when one is being entered!)

 

... not sure how one would not know what the weather is, in their line of sight.

Maybe you mean the storms don't appear on maps?

 

 

Sorry, yes, I meant that the clouds on the world map not be visible to the player, so they are not so easily avoided.

 

One idea is to have the screen gradually darken, with thunder sounds & lightning flashes, as the player gets closer to the invisible world map "trigger" for a storm.

 

That said, fog-of-war on the world map might make the storms more threatening...

[Walter.Richards]

 

 

 

  (and the storms should be invisible, so the player doesn't know when one is being entered!)

 

... not sure how one would not know what the weather is, in their line of sight.

Maybe you mean the storms don't appear on maps?

 

 

Sorry, yes, I meant that the clouds on the world map not be visible to the player, so they are not so easily avoided.

 

One idea is to have the screen gradually darken, with thunder sounds & lightning flashes, as the player gets closer to the invisible world map "trigger" for a storm.

 

That said, fog-of-war on the world map might make the storms more threatening...

 

 

I'd like to see an option for what you see on the World Map.

Along with your idea ... How about we don't see other ships' location "live"?  You could to stop in a port, and get an updated map with their "last known" route marked, but not the exact location of the ship.  And the update would only include ships that used that port.  

[Frak]

I'm intrigued by them. I love the concept.

 

Personally I'll likely try Abydons and Ryrmgands(sic?), maybe Skaens. I like the idea of not being able to hoard resources (food) and wear and tear of gear seems like a reasonable addition.

 

Love having the possibility of Eothas', but on a first run I'd loathe to feel hurried and miss exploration.

 

Hylea is not really my bag. The idea is fine, just not for me.

Permadeath is scary. I'm avoiding Berath.

 

As others I'd like some kind of barrier towards rest spam. I get that what's Eothas' is, but I'd want a different implementation. Maybe incremental cost for resting at inns that resets after a month (in-game) time. Combined with chance of interrupt by monsters when resting outside inns.

 

 

- Other ideas:

- Potion failure or weird result when ingesting potion. Same with scrolls.

- Random moving enemies. On a second run you know where all the enemies are, so an element of having them move in a different pattern might help.

 

 

[thelee]

As others I'd like some kind of barrier towards rest spam. I get that what's Eothas' is, but I'd want a different implementation. Maybe incremental cost for resting at inns that resets after a month (in-game) time. Combined with chance of interrupt by monsters when resting outside inns.

 

yeah, 100 upboats for some sort of non-eothas-style rest spam limit. Rymrgand is kind of also a rest spam limit since good food decays so quickly, but both Eothas and Rymrgand effectively also function as anti-exploration mechanisms, which I don't like.

 

After playing with god challenges more, I'm not a big fan of Abydon. It starts becoming extremely tedious mid-late game. Not so much the economy of having to be really sparing with exceptional and better weapons, but because combat gets to the point where you're doing enough damage or receiving enough damage that it seems like you need to repair after each encounter. I have a Abydon+Skaen run, and honestly I'm having a real hard time getting motivated to play it (I will probably just rush through the critical path) because the Abydon aspect is getting to be a real tedium.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

As others I'd like some kind of barrier towards rest spam. I get that what's Eothas' is, but I'd want a different implementation. Maybe incremental cost for resting at inns that resets after a month (in-game) time. Combined with chance of interrupt by monsters when resting outside inns.

 

yeah, 100 upboats for some sort of non-eothas-style rest spam limit. Rymrgand is kind of also a rest spam limit since good food decays so quickly, but both Eothas and Rymrgand effectively also function as anti-exploration mechanisms, which I don't like.

 

After playing with god challenges more, I'm not a big fan of Abydon. It starts becoming extremely tedious mid-late game. Not so much the economy of having to be really sparing with exceptional and better weapons, but because combat gets to the point where you're doing enough damage or receiving enough damage that it seems like you need to repair after each encounter. I have a Abydon+Skaen run, and honestly I'm having a real hard time getting motivated to play it (I will probably just rush through the critical path) because the Abydon aspect is getting to be a real tedium.

 

 

Yeah I noticed this about Abydon's even during the tough fights in the first section of the game, I would burn through weapons in one encounter so an adjustment sounds good ... wonder if it is tied to PEN in anyway, not sure how you could figure that out though as it seems complicated.

Edited October 28, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[thelee]

 

 

As others I'd like some kind of barrier towards rest spam. I get that what's Eothas' is, but I'd want a different implementation. Maybe incremental cost for resting at inns that resets after a month (in-game) time. Combined with chance of interrupt by monsters when resting outside inns.

 

yeah, 100 upboats for some sort of non-eothas-style rest spam limit. Rymrgand is kind of also a rest spam limit since good food decays so quickly, but both Eothas and Rymrgand effectively also function as anti-exploration mechanisms, which I don't like.

 

After playing with god challenges more, I'm not a big fan of Abydon. It starts becoming extremely tedious mid-late game. Not so much the economy of having to be really sparing with exceptional and better weapons, but because combat gets to the point where you're doing enough damage or receiving enough damage that it seems like you need to repair after each encounter. I have a Abydon+Skaen run, and honestly I'm having a real hard time getting motivated to play it (I will probably just rush through the critical path) because the Abydon aspect is getting to be a real tedium.

 

 

Yeah I noticed this about Abydon's even during the tough fights in the first section of the game, I would burn through weapons in one encounter so an adjustment sounds good ... wonder if it is tied to PEN in anyway, not sure how you could figure that out though as it seems complicated.

 

 

frankly i think i would be happy if they just made weapons/armor breakdown half as much and just adjusted the repair cost upwards. it's just annoying to go through my inventory after almost every fight to repair or swap stuff out.

 

i'm not so sure that obsidian is interested in god challenge rebalancing though... a lot of complaints about berath and magran's earlier in this thread and nothing has come of it.

[Mallard]

 

i'm not so sure that obsidian is interested in god challenge rebalancing though... a lot of complaints about berath and magran's earlier in this thread and nothing has come of it.

 

I think that the devs are aware the community feedback, and are listening to proposed solutions. They did make the God Challenges available at every difficulty in response to community requests!

 

And SChin indicated on the Patch Beta forum that they are considering the request to mix Berath's Blessings with the challenges.

 

Perhaps they are waiting for all of the God Challenges to be released so that they can experiment with mixing and matching them...

[Purudaya]

I'd love a challenge that only allows access to the stash while on the ship, maybe with a few extra inventory slots to balance it out. It made sense in PoE1 so players didn't have to keep going back to the stronghold to store their loot, but now that our mode of transportation is the stronghold it would do a lot for immersion and tactics (as well as the game economy) to require players to make choices as to what they can carry with them and back.

I suppose that's less of a 'challenge' than a mechanical change, but not every one of these should have to resolve around some intense specific handicap. I bet more players would try challenges if they did things like adding fatigue/increasing the need for rest as opposed to taking away pause or making weapons fall apart. To each their own, but I'd like to see more challenges that make the game more interesting without adding more tedium.

[protopersona]

I'd love a challenge that only allows access to the stash while on the ship, maybe with a few extra inventory slots to balance it out. It made sense in PoE1 so players didn't have to keep going back to the stronghold to store their loot, but now that our mode of transportation is the stronghold it would do a lot for immersion and tactics (as well as the game economy) to require players to make choices as to what they can carry with them and back.

 

I suppose that's less of a 'challenge' than a mechanical change, but not every one of these should have to resolve around some intense specific handicap. I bet more players would try challenges if they did things like adding fatigue/increasing the need for rest as opposed to taking away pause or making weapons fall apart. To each their own, but I'd like to see more challenges that make the game more interesting without adding more tedium.

 

Bold/underline is my doing. See, the thing is for me limiting stash access to the ship is "adding tedium."

 

The only thing the stash does is stop me from filling up on loot, running off to sell it, and then coming back for more loot. Repeat process until every single thing that isn't nailed down has been looted. Add in the time that travel and loading screens add in and it becomes a giant, tedious task. And don't tell me that I should be more selective in what I loot. It's loot, what self respecting murder hobo (aka a Munchkin in a Monty Haul game) leaves any loot behind?

Edited October 29, 2018 by protopersona

[house2fly]

It's not a task, because you don't have to do it

[esyvjrt]

I just limit myself to party members inventory. But for the implementation as a Challenge, loot disappearing from the map would help, maybe you can hide them if you find somewhere with a chance of disappearing. Still i guess you could just take and sell everything after every fight, but that would probably be tedious enough to make you give up the loot or don't go for the Challenge if is not really your thing, instead of going for the challenge and try to avoid it

[protopersona]

It's not a task, because you don't have to do it

 

Don't have to? Yes, objectively I don't. Compulsively need to? You'd best believe it.

[Purudaya]

 

I'd love a challenge that only allows access to the stash while on the ship, maybe with a few extra inventory slots to balance it out. It made sense in PoE1 so players didn't have to keep going back to the stronghold to store their loot, but now that our mode of transportation is the stronghold it would do a lot for immersion and tactics (as well as the game economy) to require players to make choices as to what they can carry with them and back.

I suppose that's less of a 'challenge' than a mechanical change, but not every one of these should have to resolve around some intense specific handicap. I bet more players would try challenges if they did things like adding fatigue/increasing the need for rest as opposed to taking away pause or making weapons fall apart. To each their own, but I'd like to see more challenges that make the game more interesting without adding more tedium.

 

Bold/underline is my doing. See, the thing is for me limiting stash access to the ship is "adding tedium."

 

The only thing the stash does is stop me from filling up on loot, running off to sell it, and then coming back for more loot. Repeat process until every single thing that isn't nailed down has been looted. Add in the time that travel and loading screens add in and it becomes a giant, tedious task. And don't tell me that I should be more selective in what I loot. It's loot, what self respecting murder hobo (aka a Munchkin in a Monty Haul game) leaves any loot behind?

Fair enough, the definition of tedium definitely depends on perspective. My thinking was that no one in their right mind would run back and forth that many times, but it looks like I underestimated the tenacity of at least one player

 

I'm pretty sure PoE is the only CRPG that has a stash mechanic like this (I'm probably wrong, but it's definitely not the norm) and while it is convenient, it also makes the game easier and less realistic. How about making the stash ship-only AND drastically reducing the amount of mundane loot? That would prevent players from having ridiculously bloated coffers and eventual access to the perfect combination of weapons, armor, consumables, and other powerful items for every situation at all times (challenge) without requiring players to make multiple trips (tedium).

 

Having to balance what characters need on them with how much they can carry back is kind of a CRPG staple imo, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned. Either way, I'd still like to see the option in some shape or form.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Purudaya

[protopersona]

 

 

I'd love a challenge that only allows access to the stash while on the ship, maybe with a few extra inventory slots to balance it out. It made sense in PoE1 so players didn't have to keep going back to the stronghold to store their loot, but now that our mode of transportation is the stronghold it would do a lot for immersion and tactics (as well as the game economy) to require players to make choices as to what they can carry with them and back.

I suppose that's less of a 'challenge' than a mechanical change, but not every one of these should have to resolve around some intense specific handicap. I bet more players would try challenges if they did things like adding fatigue/increasing the need for rest as opposed to taking away pause or making weapons fall apart. To each their own, but I'd like to see more challenges that make the game more interesting without adding more tedium.

 

Bold/underline is my doing. See, the thing is for me limiting stash access to the ship is "adding tedium."

 

The only thing the stash does is stop me from filling up on loot, running off to sell it, and then coming back for more loot. Repeat process until every single thing that isn't nailed down has been looted. Add in the time that travel and loading screens add in and it becomes a giant, tedious task. And don't tell me that I should be more selective in what I loot. It's loot, what self respecting murder hobo (aka a Munchkin in a Monty Haul game) leaves any loot behind?

Fair enough, the definition of tedium definitely depends on perspective. My thinking was that no one in their right mind would run back and forth that many times, but it looks like I underestimated the tenacity of at least one player

 

I'm pretty sure PoE is the only CRPG that has a stash mechanic like this (I'm probably wrong, but it's definitely not the norm) and while it is convenient, it also makes the game easier and less realistic. How about making the stash ship-only AND drastically reducing the amount of mundane loot? That would prevent players from having ridiculously bloated coffers and eventual access to the perfect combination of weapons, armor, consumables, and other powerful items for every situation at all times (challenge) without requiring players to make multiple trips (tedium).

 

Having to balance what characters need on them with how much they can carry back is kind of a CRPG staple imo, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned. Either way, I'd still like to see the option in some shape or form.

 

 

Obsidian definitely could do that. It was something they could have done in PoE 1 instead of implementing a stash in the first place. Thing is the Infinity Engine games proved the number of players that will haul every single thing you drop in the game off to be sold is much larger than you would think. The amount of people that complain about encumbrance limits in every game is also pretty large too. Those were most likely the motivations for the stash's creation.

 

Balancing loot drops right and believably isn't easy or quick. If there's one thing I always expect from Obsidian it's generally choosing the quick and easy answer.

 

Just going off your suggestion say we stop dropping all the equipment from every character we come across. Well the guy I just fought was wearing golden armor and a flaming sword. Wouldn't it make sense that if I kill him his loot isn't somehow magically glued to his body? It happened a lot in the older games that PoE is inspired by. Complaints like that are what the mundane loot addresses.

[house2fly]

Maybe his armour and weapon were so damaged by the battle that they're unusable

[Purudaya]

In the BG games, there came a point where you would start leaving mundane armors/weapons on the ground – they didn't have a lot of value and it wasn't worth it to carry them back and sell them unless you were low level and/or cash starved. Even if I *had* a stash to carry them all in, the small amount of clicking required to pick up and sell 20 mundane longswords alone wouldn't have been worth it.

 

By contrast, these items are your bread and butter in PoE2 - the majority of your income comes from the worthless mundane crap that drops, so it makes sense for players to want to take it all back. So either (1) make mundanes worth less, (2) have them drop less frequently, or (3) do both 1 and 2. As for seeing items on enemies and then not seeing all of them on the ground, I'd imagine that's just the game showing you only the items that are both valuable and salvageable. This is a game with bombs, meteor showers, disintegration spells, and shotguns— it's almost weirder that so many armors do drop in salvageable condition than the other way around.

[protopersona]

In the BG games, there came a point where you would start leaving mundane armors/weapons on the ground – they didn't have a lot of value and it wasn't worth it to carry them back and sell them unless you were low level and/or cash starved. Even if I *had* a stash to carry them all in, the small amount of clicking required to pick up and sell 20 mundane longswords alone wouldn't have been worth it.

 

By contrast, these items are your bread and butter in PoE2 - the majority of your income comes from the worthless mundane crap that drops, so it makes sense for players to want to take it all back. So either (1) make mundanes worth less, (2) have them drop less frequently, or (3) do both 1 and 2. As for seeing items on enemies and then not seeing all of them on the ground, I'd imagine that's just the game showing you only the items that are both valuable and salvageable. This is a game with bombs, meteor showers, disintegration spells, and shotguns— it's almost weirder that so many armors do drop in salvageable condition than the other way around.

 

True enough. The fact that they are worth a lot more is part of the problem. Though the items not being worth much was also a common complaint leveled against the designers as it made most victories feel like a waste of time and resources.

 

Deep down I think most players are just here for the empowerment fantasy. I think the vast majority of gamers just want to murder things, feel powerful, and be rewarded for every single thing they succeed at. It's not a tough set of conditions to accommodate, but it does ruin the experience for people looking for anything else.

[itshairtime]

 

I want to say that I'm in agreement that I would like to mix and match the challenges without being locked into Expert Mode and Path of the Damned. As much as I love the Pillars games, I'm fundamentally not hardcore enough for PotD, but do think that some of the challenges (like Eothas' Challenge and Galawain's Challenge) sound interesting and manageable.

 

I wonder if a good compromise between 'cheevers and people who just want to play with the challenge is to let the player "unlock" a challenge to play at any difficulty or setting, but then it doesn't count towards the "Challenges complete 0/10" counter.

 

please dont make me unlock something else through another playthrough my first game was solely to unlock all the beraths blessings i could so i can spice up my second playthrough with the gods challenges and baraths blessings

[pinata37]

I love the intredouction of options for my gameplay. I have been asking for resource managment and attrition since beta and this is a leap in the right direction. Sadly i will not be playing until i can use them with my modded game and i cant see why you would restrict it like this? Why disable my mods? WHYYY???

[kiki78]

I love the intredouction of options for my gameplay. I have been asking for resource managment and attrition since beta and this is a leap in the right direction. Sadly i will not be playing until i can use them with my modded game and i cant see why you would restrict it like this? Why disable my mods? WHYYY???

THIS.

I use 3 mods just for aesthetics (made myself, just changing few armor models and headgear + making aumana lower, slightly less hideous, than they are) - a must

One for less XP (which is challenge by itself, especially with new potd changes, but reaching level cap in half of rpg is meh) - top recommended 30 perc slower leveling

More AI conditions - no comment, its a must

Enhanced UI - not a must, but its very good to have

 

I refuse to play any challenge, because i wouldnt play without those. NO and i dont see point of that limitation, especially when you can do challenges now with all difficulties.

[house2fly]

You can probably just edit the game files directly to get around that

[kiki78]

You can probably just edit the game files directly to get around that

well, something yes, but AI conditions hmm no idea

point is, why - it was challenge with potd, with any difficulty its just some spice to game, not really challenge, so lets enable mods (if they are disabled because some can make things easier - besides most cheaty thing is unity console, and that works, i believe) it just makes no sense at all

[AndreaColombo]

I think he meant you can change the game files so that mods in general are allowed with Challenges.

[Harpagornis]

Unlocking Mods when playing God Challenges:

• Switch to your install folder/PillarsOfEternityII_Data/exported/design/gamedata
• Open global.gamedatabundle with Notepad++ or similar
• Use Ctrl+F to find "DisableMods": "true". Change it to "false" (its at the very beginning)
• Save and have fun!

Edited November 7, 2018 by Harpagornis