Does a single clas Paladin support enough to Warrant a Spot (on PoTD)

[Teclis23]

So you seem to think

[Stardusk78]

@Manveru123: Exactly. Except Marksman ring maybe. And using two Rings of Overseeing sometimes.

 

@Teclis23: Erm... isn't that the whole point of roleplaying a Paladin?

Lord God Of Mechanics, IF you were to recommend a single class, offensive style Paladin, which one would you recommend and how would you go about it?

 

Multumesc!

[Manveru123]

But he already did that on the previous page.

[Stardusk78]

But he already did that on the previous page.

Where?

[Manveru123]

The exhortations my be costly, but they are also fast cast with 0 recovery - which means you can remove afflictions immediately. Especially when using a gun. I agree that the costs seem too high most of the time though.

 

Also a single class paladin can get back substancial amounts of zeal on kill (if he takes the right abilites).

 

Also you can get Exhalted Endurance a lot earlier which has more impact on lower levels.

 

That means if you build a somewhat offensive paladin (who is still sturdy - just because he's a Paladin) you can get a lot of zeal back during an encounter.

 

With Exhalted Endurance and Greater Lay on Hands (and some healing bonuses like Physiker's Belt and Practised Healer) you already only lose less than 50 health in total from your Sacred Immolation. If you pick up Voidward even less. With Sworn Enemy, Scion of Flame, Ring of Focused Flame, FoD and Inspired Beacon+Scared Immolation you will kill a lot of enemies, getting back zeal constantly. Later use Divine Immolation and Zeal of Pure Light to heal your people big time while dealing large amounts of damage around you.

Here.

[Torm51]

I haven’t had any disposition issues? I select the correct favored dispositions and my defenses increase.

[Manveru123]

I haven’t had any disposition issues? I select the correct favored dispositions and my defenses increase.

The issue is that some people want to play a member of eg. Bleak Walkers and be Benevolent and Diplomatic without taking a hit to their defenses.

 

You know, taking role-playing out of role-playing

[MaxQuest]

Finally people start to realize that paladins' mid/high level abilities are super boring

Indeed)

 

Btw, was curious if someone will try a party of human or death-godlikes shieldbearers going for Divine Immolation that could cross-heal / lay-on-hands; or check how feasible it is with Barring Deaths Door. But it seems immolation just doesn't deal enough damage? (not to mention smaller aoe and shorter duration than in PoE1)

Edited August 21, 2018 by MaxQuest

[grasida]

I haven’t had any disposition issues? I select the correct favored dispositions and my defenses increase.

Some people have reported disposition changes that weren't marked in dialogue and weren't immediately obvious as belonging to a certain disposition. So people's bleakwalkers have ended up with a point in benevolent that seems to have come from nowhere, etc. That could be user error, though.

 

This was especially prominent right on release when disposition changes occurred extremely quickly. There is a place where you can notice something strange, try to point it out to the person you're talking to, then at release get a whole point in shady just from that. And there was no way to know trying to point that out would result in gaining shady reputation. You don't get a whole point from that now, but the game does tell you that your shady disposition increased for doing it.

Edited August 21, 2018 by grasida

[heldred]

Can you make a Paladin work? Sure, mostly for RP reasons.

 

There are many more potent melee combos that make a pure Paladin look like a limp noodle in combat.

 

Making something work and making something insanely powerful are different results. I don’t think anyone would intentionally pick pure Paladin for PvP (if it existed) or nominate it for most efficient build for solo.

[Boeroer]

I want to try a SC dps Paladin with the Espirs Estoc - because its Ghost Blades proc on kill. And they proc on all kills (Sacred Immolation and Brand Enemy etc. included). They even proc off themselves. I can imagine that with Sacred Immolation, some +PL stuff like Otto Starcat and so on and Greater Lay on Hands/Exhalted Endurance/Voidward I could wipe mobs quickly without dying. Not for solo obviously - but healing party emmbers while damageing/killing enemies and triggering Ghost Blades all the time should be fun.

 

This would also work with any other class of course, but together with the zeal refunds it might be good - and obviously it would be very fitting thematically/lore-wise.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

For most martial classes, the ressource cost of most High Level Abilities seems to be a problem. They are usually less cost effective than level 1 ones.

 

It starts from around tier IV and is even more apparent on tier VIII and IX. Furthermore, SC lack ressources compared to multi, and Paladin does not have a gamechanging passive. All these stack to explain Paladin SC problems.

[mosspit]

Agreed. For martial classes, there seems to be an unspoken standard that tier 8-9 abilities in general are designed to have higher cost with somewhat more desirable effects. PL scaling and cost effectiveness of lower tier abilities (as mentioned) is one thing. Another is that unlike casters, using higher tier abilities compete with resources so blowing resources early with high tier abilities lead to just auto-attacking for the later half of the encounter.

Edited August 22, 2018 by mosspit

[Elric Galad]

1 ressource should be enough for bread & butter abilities (Sap buff was wise in this regard)

 

2 ressources should be enough for powerful abilities (Gaze of Adragan cost 2 for trickster, that sounds alright)

 

3 ressources should be limited to "ultimate" such as Sacred Immolation (if its self damages were lowered and/or capped - no more scaling with Might and PL)

 

4 ressources should be rare. Maybe heart of fury, for example, but I'm not even sure. And of course Gambit but Gambit does not "really" cost 4.

 

In the case of Paladin, I believe that all these single target commands should cost 1 Zeal (Liberating, hastening, reinforcing) except Reviving ones that should cost 2 (Edit : or 3).

 

If these change are not made, people would continue spamming Flames of Devotion and its wonderful shared flames on MultiClass Paladins.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Metaturtle]

I can see it being good as an offensive support frontliner where it can fight weaker trash in endurance fights for zeal and nullify debuffs quickly to maintain the parties rhythm since the pali does have a good range of inspirations for very fast affliction countering.  I have to agree with the costs being stupidly expensive with their current resource regeneration, which can quickly lose value depending on their spec and party setup.  In my opinion, the costs are an haunting artifact that still remains after all the nerfs rolled out.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Metaturtle

[Boeroer]

Dammit, I totally misremembered Divine Retribution... It gives you +2 zeal when an ally goes down, not an enemy. Superoops... well... does it work with summons...?

 

Edit: Hahahahaha - yes it does.

 

Put a Beckoner, Ghost Heart, Druid and/or Wizard in your party and you'll get +2 zeal every time a summon gets killed. Now suddenly that thing went from meh passive to AWESOMEST passive.  Virtuous Triumph does only work on enemies, so you don't need to kill the summons yourself. Just send them on a suicide mission...

Edited August 22, 2018 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

That IS pretty cool. Although I'm still not sure if it's enough to make a pure Pally. Particularly considering its PL IX...

Edited August 22, 2018 by Haplok

[Elric Galad]

Dammit, I totally misremembered Divine Retribution... It gives you +2 zeal when an ally goes down, not an enemy. Superoops... well... does it work with summons...?

 

Edit: Hahahahaha - yes it does.

 

Put a Beckoner, Ghost Heart, Druid and/or Wizard in your party and you'll get +2 zeal every time a summon gets killed. Now suddenly that thing went from meh passive to AWESOMEST passive. Virtuous Triumph does only work on enemies, so you don't need to kill the summons yourself. Just send them on a suicide mission...

And that Chanter Phrase that summons a skeleton... or 2 with a beckoner ?

[Teclis23]

Dammit, I totally misremembered Divine Retribution... It gives you +2 zeal when an ally goes down, not an enemy. Superoops... well... does it work with summons...?

 

Edit: Hahahahaha - yes it does.

 

Put a Beckoner, Ghost Heart, Druid and/or Wizard in your party and you'll get +2 zeal every time a summon gets killed. Now suddenly that thing went from meh passive to AWESOMEST passive.  Virtuous Triumph does only work on enemies, so you don't need to kill the summons yourself. Just send them on a suicide mission...

what would you do with all the zeal though you dont really need it?

 

The only time in my last playthrough when i would have needed it would have been vs the undead dragon in BOW. The extra heals would have helped

 

Apart from that i never really needed extra zeal. (i ran 2 pallys both as tanks)

Edited August 22, 2018 by Teclis23

[Boeroer]

Yeah - endless Zeal is totally overrated.

 

As I already explained it would be an offensive support Paladin. I would cast FoD, Inspired Beacon and Divine Immolation over and over. With a Kind Wayfarer I could spam White Flames endlessly while healing with Divine Immolation and preventing my death with Greater Lay on Hands. I'd put Brand enemy on everybody and let Light of Pure Zeal rain on all vessels and spirits...

Edited August 22, 2018 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Oh dear - I forgot that the Espir also heals you when you proc Ghost Blades. I don't even need Greater Lay on Hands to survive Sacred Immolation. As long as I kill with it I stay at high health. Kind of my own private Triumph of the Crusaders: SA procs Ghost Blades who also can proc themselves if they kill... I get +1 zeal for each kill.

 

Meanwhile the chanter sends in squishy skeletons who distract and get roasted for +2 zeal. This is truly awesome...

 

Have to do a build description after playing one of these I guess...

 

Of course the Estoc also works very nicely with every other class that can kill quickly. Not paladin-specific.

 

But the combo of infinite zeal + Sacred Immolation + heal on kill is pretty awesome.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Boeroer

[Manveru123]

Greater LOH only prevents death when cast on others, not self. Unless you simply mean its healing.

 

Do the summons have to actually die, or does it also work when their duration expires?

[mosspit]

I would imagine this will work nicely with the Lord of Imps build. With that amount of Zeal, maybe even those costly Exhortations might be would using. But FoD spam alone will already be wothwhile for me. Nice find as usual

[Boeroer]

Greater LOH only prevents death when cast on others, not self. Unless you simply mean its healing.

 

Do the summons have to actually die, or does it also work when their duration expires?

I meant the healing. It's substantial because of the dual source. As mentioned before, when using Sacred Immolation and then healing yourself with Greater Lay on Hands and Exalted Endurance + healing bonuses you merely lose 50 health overall.

 

The Cascade of Immolation + Ghost Blades is pretty awesome.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

By the way: the Woedica Necklace that gives you +MIG and RES when a party members goes down also work with summons. Pretty nice synergy with this paladin...

Edited August 22, 2018 by Boeroer