Single class should be more statistically superior than multi

[heldred]

 

To OP. Don't you get access to 2 more tiers of abilities as single class? That's a crazy boon over multiclass. Most of these high end PL 8 and 9 abilities are not only very powerful but also flashy and satisfying, while multiclass is stuck using mid tier stuff over and over for most of the game single classes get to diversify their gameplay in shorter intervals. Imo this suffice.

Yeah the problem as cited is that those level 8-9 abilities are not created equal among classes.

 

Wizard lvl 8 but especially lvl 9 abilities are godtier quality

 

Monk, barbarian, priest lvl8-9 abilities are strong

 

Druid is "serviceable" until you see what a single class priest or omg a single class wizard can do

Rogue while not great is again serviceable at those levels

 

Chanter, Paladin, Fighter and Chanter are weak at lvl8-9 abilities especially the "active" abilities not the passives.

Completely agree, i just rank Priest slightly lower due to Wizard envy.

[coldmind]

multi gives you more versatility and more options in combat and it`s always better to have more options than lack of them, this is the main reason why multi is stronger compared to single class, and got 2 more tier level abilities on single class isn`t enough to turn the tables on

[Elric Galad]

An adult dragon should be able to turn the tables.

 

I think the current principles are very good. They only require some tweaks IMHO. Some people would still prefer versatility, some others would prefer an adult dragon as long as they don't feel gimped with it.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Some of the single-class late game abilities could use improvement but there's no reason single or multiclass should be forced stronger or weaker than the other. 

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Some of the single-class late game abilities could use improvement but there's no reason single or multiclass should be forced stronger or weaker than the other.

I agree. I think they should both have their strengths.

 

Multiclasses have versatile line up of abilities. They can Multiclass to shore up starting defences, and focus on one class while just picking the other class abilities to supplement their build, ETC.

 

Single classes reach power levels more quickly, and have PL 8 and 9 abilities, ETC.

 

I'm sure there is more pros for each one but as far as I can tell, the PL 8 and 9 abilities/talents don't seem to make people stop and go.. "Do I really want to give up the chance/opportunity to multiclass?"

 

What's the overall consensus on the forum via poll?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

What's the overall consensus on the forum via poll?

 

 

 

I could be wrong but I feel it varies a bit class to class. Wizards and Monks everyone seems to agree single-class is a valid choice. Most other classes . . . well, it's a choice you can make. Generally I think most single-class builds are playable but not optimal.  I still generally play single-class because I hate the feeling of "missing" top end abilities.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Veolfen]

As stated above Single classes just need :

 

-More ressources

 

-A slight buff to level 8 and 9 abilities (for the ones that need them)

-And also give some of them (mainly martial classes, it would affect multiclass too) a bit more scaling with powerlevel since it's their selling point alongside level 8 and 9 skills. It can be the way to buff the skills of single classes abilities

[Elric Galad]

As stated above Single classes just need :

 

-More ressources

 

-A slight buff to level 8 and 9 abilities (for the ones that need them)

 

-And also give some of them (mainly martial classes, it would affect multiclass too) a bit more scaling with powerlevel since it's their selling point alongside level 8 and 9 skills. It can be the way to buff the skills of single classes abilities

Perfect synthesis.

 

For the later part, I would say that PL bonus to special attack seems fine. Multiplicative bonus to damage are always great. In addition, spells need more scaling because they don't benefit from magic weapons scaling.

 

However, martial classes rely less on active abilities and more on passive. I would be nice that a couple of key passive could get more benefits from PL, such as the current +5%/PL to sneak attack damages.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Prince of Lies]

I feel the game is pretty balanced.

 

I completely disagree with the topic title, though. A multiclass character should have the opportunity to be on par with a single-class character (which, if built correctly, is definitely true).

 

I also feel that the "OP" spellcaster thing is a holdover from POE1 and Vancian spellcasting.

 

That being said, classes like the Cipher and Chanter have some pretty powerful early-mid game skills (Charm/Dominate). Martial classes have some game-changing passive abilities (Armored Grace, Riposte). The only class that I haven't really fooled around with (because they seem underwhelming from the get-go) is the Ranger.

[Amigo345]

Multiclass? This game allows dual class only.

[Verde]

Multiclass? This game allows dual class only.

It's literally called multiclass. This isn't D&D.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Verde

[Amigo345]

You can call it whatever you like it is still dual classing.

[Boeroer]

The developer calls it multiclass.

The designer calls it multiclass.

The marketing guys call it multiclass.

The official wiki calls it multiclass.

Everybody in this forum and their pedantic moms call it multiclass.

The only person who doesn't call it multiclass besides you is Groot.

 

You call it dual class. You can call it whatever you like - but here the correct term is multiclass.

[hilfazer]

AD&D would call it multiclass as well.

[Verde]

You can call it whatever you like it is still dual classing.

I'm calling it what the game calls it.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Verde

[Amigo345]

nope still dual class

[Amentep]

I've cleaned up the last few posts.  Please try to be constructive in your comments.

[uuuhhii]

fundamental advantage of multi class are resource

maybe better if martial class only get 6 resource on 20 level multi

and spell class can only cast 1 per power level

[acbatchelor]

nope still dual class

 

But what if Obsidian decided to add dual classing in the next Pillars?

[Taevyr]

It seems to me that the main problem in multiclass being better than singleclass, is because multi performs better in both the specialized roles which should primarily be the domain of single-classes, and perform especially good in dual roles, which is what multiclasses are usually meant for.

 

Of course, it's good that multi-classing offers to combine class passives/skills in a way that synergizes in unexpected and highly effective ways; the problem is that the higher power level, larger amount of class resources, and lvl 8-9 abilities/passives don't provide a similar boost to most single classes. Wizard and Monk are the only classes I can currently think of that are generally seen as being just as good single-classed as multi-classed; the others either have all their good skills handed out at earlier power levels, or fail to provide PL 8-9 skills that'd be preferable over a multiclass.

 

I don't think simply fiddling with the class resources or power level would help, as it's just a cheap way to "make single-class stronger"; similar to how the flat increase to POTD stats makes enemies tougher, but not exactly harder to beat in a tactical manner. They'd need to take a look at the skills themselves to make go-to multiclasses like paladin attractive as single-class characters.

[Taevyr]

nope still dual class

 

Can't you make your own "ridiculous pedantics" thread instead of derailing this one?

[Teclis23]

Who says single classing is better then multiclassing anyway?

 

Alot of the multiclass builds have there power built in very early and then there power gets weaker as they progress.

 

For example look at the paladins Faith and Conviction passive where you get +12 deflection at level 3. I followed all my paladins disposition conversations correctly and it only went up another three points to 15 deflection when i was a level 15 character. This is incredibly strong early game but quite weak late game.

 

Or Look at barbarian for example with there level 7 blood thirst (or lust) ability. That is by far the most powerful offensive passive ability in the game. +50% recovery speed on kill is so powerful its not funny.  I would argue that Barbs are possibly stronger as a single class then mulitclass because all you need is Blood thirst and your right to go. A single class barb will get it FAR quicker then a multi-class.

 

Priests are stonger as single. Druids are stonger as single. Monks kick a$$ as single class. Im not convinced that Ciphers are better as multis either.

 

Rogues/ wizzies and fighters definatley suit being multi classed

 

If anything i think alot of the high power spells and abilities of most classes are very underwhelming and need a buff but that wont happen because the game currently has huge balancing problems towards the mid to late game

Edited August 25, 2018 by Teclis23

[Elizer]

The only class that doesnt get anything good at last tiers is the rangers... they get a rogue move that heals.. (vanish) Thats not impressive at all.

[Boeroer]

A defense bonus stays potent during the whole game. It can't get weaker unless you substract. Every point of defense has increasing returns. So if it's "incredibly strong" in the early game it stays being incredibly strong until the end of the game.

 

Blood Thirst is not doing -50% recovery on kill but removes recovery completely for the next action.

 

Rangers get Whirling Strikes and Twin Shots at PL 8 which both are pretty good.

I suspect the deflection debuff of Distracting Training stacks. So if you boost your Animal Companion's defenses that could be pretty awesome, but I didn't test it.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Boeroer

[Teclis23]

Faith and conviction has diminishing returns. 12 def bonus at level 3 is more of a benefit to you then 15 def at level 15

Edited August 25, 2018 by Teclis23