Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

[Manveru123]

 

So, what is the answer to the thread's "question"? Is Pathfinder bigger than Deadfire?

 

I'm asking about the size/time to finish.

It's bigger then Deadfire

 

No real good way to estimate the time based on my playthroughs because the load times were terrible and I had a million bugs that I had to load older saves or wait for patches to get around

 

Then Deadfire what? Is this a joke I'm missing?

 

But I agree that it's very hard to estimate, I have clocked ~150h in both games, so I'd say that if you want to do everything possible, they are very similar. Kingmaker will probably come out on top simply because you "waste" time with kingdom management, that adds additional hours of playtime.

[Mamoulian War]

Just read the title of the thread

[Manveru123]

EDIT: ok don't mind me I get it now.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Manveru123

[kiki78]

I started playing with 1.1 (waiting for major crap gets fixed) and well... There are some minor bugs or glitches - mostly some inconsistencies (ffs), but so far nothing major - in chapter 5 now. 

 

It is way way bigger - not sure what sizes are we comparing, but playable area / encounters etc, kingmaker wins by alot. Not even talking about dungeons - those are uncomparable.

 

What makes it even "bigger" is sluggish movement, and total lack of documentation or explanation, and if you try to google things, it only confuses you, because everything was bugged, and even if it is fixed now, its hard to orient or get any info. Very frustrating. Takes you one, or at least half of whole first playthrough, to understand how most of things work.

What makes it "smaller" is ever present time stress, which kinda forces you to not explore much - but also somewhat prevents overleveling.

 

Out of topic i also totally love writing, i really love almost all companions (and i hate all deadfire companions, sorry but i cant stand single one of them - )... Even them romances are quite interesting. 

 

So yea, this is HUGE, but its 1.1.1 - and its still quite bit of mess. No idea how long this will take to polish, but its pretty playable atm, seems all gamebreaking stuff is fixed.

[xzar_monty]

Out of topic i also totally love writing, i really love almost all companions (and i hate all deadfire companions, sorry but i cant stand single one of them - )... Even them romances are quite interesting.

 

Why? This is a serious question, and I am indeed interested in what you think.

 

The problem with flat out unqualified and unexplained "love" or "hate" statements is this: anyone can say them about anything, but they convey absolutely no information. Could you do a little bit of "I love the writing, because..." and "I hate all Deadfire companions, because..." so the rest of us can at least have some kind of idea of what you mean, please?

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

The companions in kingmaker are mostly fun people that ud want to drink with, bang or marry. Uve got ur dating sim protagonists, ur comic relief, ur cute sidekick, ur partypooper(s) etc.

 

Theyre all pretty well executed and a good laugh. The dating sim options, apart from the devoted pretty boy husbando, leave me a bit cold, but i dont have to bother with them. Tho that prob says more about my emotional availability than anything else.

 

Kingmakers drawing a lot of comparisons to NWN2 for me. If you enjoyed adventuring with Khelgar, Sand, Neeshka etc. well, kingmakers got a similar vibe.

 

Its a fine thing. Im cool with it. But i will say that it might rub the more genre-weary the wrong way. If ure one of these people who didnt get on with NWN2s base campaign u might have less patience for it.

[Manveru123]

The dating options are good, after I started a relationship with Octavia, I could ask her for sex each time I talked to her and she never said no. I approve of the design.

 

It's hard to say that one game has better companions than the other. It depends. Like for example, imo Eder was a superstar of Deadfire and I'd even risk stating that no companions in Kingmaker are as good as him. For KM, I've found Jubilost and Jaethal to be most memorable, even though I could hardly justify using the latter in my party because she's uh, hard to heal. On the other side of spectrum you have terribad companions like Xoti or Valerie. So yeah, imo this should be discussed on a per-character basis.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Manveru123

[xzar_monty]

What's wrong with Xoti, then? I think she's a rather charming combination of naivete and strange theological beliefs. I agree she can seem foolish at times, but somehow I find that appealing: she's someone I want to keep with me if only to keep her safe. Besides, she's got decent abilities and skills.

 

I'm interested in the way a character is written: whether the person is well-rounded or not, plausible or not, etc. (I'm not interested in having sex with an imaginary character in a computer game.)

 

I agree that Eder seems to be a particularly well thought-out character. Sometimes it even seems that he was a clear priority: a lot of time has clearly been spent making him as credible as possible. The watershaper druid, for instance, I forget his name, felt quite flat in comparison, as did the pirate cipher. I had both of them with me for a time, but neither really made an impression. I'm not saying they were bad, but compared to Eder they felt fairly thin.

 

Also: the way Eder comments on things makes me think that the developers pretty much took it for granted that you'd have him in your party. This is just a hunch, though.

 

Maia is interesting because she appears quite calculating and even a bit cold, but there might be something more underneath that.

 

Oh, by the way: I haven't played Kingmaker enough to comment on any of the NPCs yet. Sorry!

Edited November 27, 2018 by xzar_monty

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Xoti grew on me. Ye she can be off-putting at first as shes needy, attention seeking, a troublemaker and generally behaves as the special star of her very own romance novel.

 

But yknow there are people out there like that, and shes an accurate portrayal of them. I think i know a few writers and vn designers who are real life xotis. And... yeah, they can actually be a lot of fun - i wouldnt want to share a workplace with many of them but the enthusiasm and - i must admit - thirstiness can be infectious and endearing.

 

So ye, xotis not everyones cup of tea, but i do respect how megan starks has portrayed a divisive type without sugar-coating or demonising it. That balance is a rare thing and its a good example of what i like about obs' approach.

 

Conversely I like serafen because hes a good execution of an old trope. The dirty, swashbuckling rogue with a heart of gold. Theres real, uncomplicated humanity in his writing and voice acting, and thats not always easy to convey.

 

I could keep going on about characters, but im at college and have to go back to class!

[kiki78]

So, few of people answered it

 

 

Out of topic i also totally love writing, i really love almost all companions (and i hate all deadfire companions, sorry but i cant stand single one of them - )... Even them romances are quite interesting.

 

Why? This is a serious question, and I am indeed interested in what you think.

 

The problem with flat out unqualified and unexplained "love" or "hate" statements is this: anyone can say them about anything, but they convey absolutely no information. Could you do a little bit of "I love the writing, because..." and "I hate all Deadfire companions, because..." so the rest of us can at least have some kind of idea of what you mean, please?

 

So few people answered already. Of course its very subjective, hate or love.

Its just... lets look at deadfire companions:

Eder is simpleton farmer - well...

Xoti is complete freak, in a bad sense... i dont mind freaks at all, but her plot seems to me ridiculous

Pallegina - fanatic who serves fanatically to some greedy bunch of nobles - anything you do agains those ***heads, she goes full postenago, leaving forever - her plot seems to me ridiculous

Serafen - is bearable from start, but later he gets annoying as hell - and looks like some green squirrel

Maia - is nice voiced, not bad personality in general, but is pro Ruatai fanatic, militia wainbrashed - and looks absolute hideous, same as Kana - same as all Aumana

Tekehu - probably most acceptable of all, but as damage dealer misses everything, and i dont like summons, as healer - he resist his stuff, so i never used him much. But he is quite ok.

 

All in all, i find them freaking weird and annoying. As in non believable weird weirdos.

But - Mirke is pretty good, and Ydwin as well (it might be, because theyre just not developed sidekicks)

 

it just all might be just my subjective feeling or non compatibility with whoever writes companions... but i dont have problems in other games, lol 

 

And about PF KM companions - i had such laugh with some, and theyre fun, even those evil and freaky ones are interesting. Just Valerie is dumb as hell. And yes Octavia's romance is awesome, even though i am not lesbian i think, ended up with her, whatever so i could flirt with anyone until she broke up with Reg - Tristian reactions on pickme ups just lol. Nok-Nok's and Linzi's sidequests made me laugh to tears.

[kiki78]

The dating options are good, after I started a relationship with Octavia, I could ask her for sex each time I talked to her and she never said no. I approve of the design.

 

It's hard to say that one game has better companions than the other. It depends. Like for example, imo Eder was a superstar of Deadfire and I'd even risk stating that no companions in Kingmaker are as good as him. For KM, I've found Jubilost and Jaethal to be most memorable, even though I could hardly justify using the latter in my party because she's uh, hard to heal. On the other side of spectrum you have terribad companions like Xoti or Valerie. So yeah, imo this should be discussed on a per-character basis.

 

Yea seems you have same problems with Xoti and Valerie as me - lol. If someone is just plain dumb, i cant stand them. Btw Jaethal is perfect, she heals herself great, she resist so many things, and even if she gets downed, its no biggie, she just stands up nothing wrong. You can give your main healer some harm or injury spells, just in case to help her, but its not that needed. She actually survives way more than Harrim. Some say put heavy armor on her, but there is no point, she has lot of DEX. I specced her all those teamwork feats, she gets bonuses even if noone else has them. Very valuable party member.

[bugarup]

Kingmakers drawing a lot of comparisons to NWN2 for me. If you enjoyed adventuring with Khelgar, Sand, Neeshka etc. well, kingmakers got a similar vibe.

 

Not sure if I'm buying this. I did love adventuring with Khelgar and Neeshka (Sand can go drown in fetid overflown outhouse for all I care), but that's because Obsidian's writing chops can elevate even the troperrific pile of NWN's generic fantasy, and nothing I've seen so far of Kingmaker's writing can even remotely compare with Obsidian's. It's so bland  I'm feeling they delegated that task to a neural network. 

 

Anyway, did anyone finish the game yet? I've heard that was mission impossible for quite some time. 

[Manveru123]

What's wrong with Xoti, then? I think she's a rather charming combination of naivete and strange theological beliefs. I agree she can seem foolish at times, but somehow I find that appealing: she's someone I want to keep with me if only to keep her safe. Besides, she's got decent abilities and skills.

 

I'm interested in the way a character is written: whether the person is well-rounded or not, plausible or not, etc. (I'm not interested in having sex with an imaginary character in a computer game.)

 

I agree that Eder seems to be a particularly well thought-out character. Sometimes it even seems that he was a clear priority: a lot of time has clearly been spent making him as credible as possible. The watershaper druid, for instance, I forget his name, felt quite flat in comparison, as did the pirate cipher. I had both of them with me for a time, but neither really made an impression. I'm not saying they were bad, but compared to Eder they felt fairly thin.

 

Also: the way Eder comments on things makes me think that the developers pretty much took it for granted that you'd have him in your party. This is just a hunch, though.

 

Maia is interesting because she appears quite calculating and even a bit cold, but there might be something more underneath that.

 

Oh, by the way: I haven't played Kingmaker enough to comment on any of the NPCs yet. Sorry!

Xoti is annoying. Her personality is plain dumb. Her zealotry is dangerous. I feel she should be put down, not dragged around. I cringe each time she starts talking. Shut up and eat your souls, Xoti.

 

 

The dating options are good, after I started a relationship with Octavia, I could ask her for sex each time I talked to her and she never said no. I approve of the design.

 

It's hard to say that one game has better companions than the other. It depends. Like for example, imo Eder was a superstar of Deadfire and I'd even risk stating that no companions in Kingmaker are as good as him. For KM, I've found Jubilost and Jaethal to be most memorable, even though I could hardly justify using the latter in my party because she's uh, hard to heal. On the other side of spectrum you have terribad companions like Xoti or Valerie. So yeah, imo this should be discussed on a per-character basis.

 

Yea seems you have same problems with Xoti and Valerie as me - lol. If someone is just plain dumb, i cant stand them. Btw Jaethal is perfect, she heals herself great, she resist so many things, and even if she gets downed, its no biggie, she just stands up nothing wrong. You can give your main healer some harm or injury spells, just in case to help her, but its not that needed. She actually survives way more than Harrim. Some say put heavy armor on her, but there is no point, she has lot of DEX. I specced her all those teamwork feats, she gets bonuses even if noone else has them. Very valuable party member.

 

That is assuming you keep her as an Inquisitor, which I don't. I multiclass her with pet Barbarian focus.

[Andy L. Ballard]

I just cannot wait to play Kingmaker.

[kiki78]

Xoti is annoying. Her personality is plain dumb. Her zealotry is dangerous. I feel she should be put down, not dragged around. I cringe each time she starts talking. Shut up and eat your souls, Xoti.

 

 

 

That is assuming you keep her as an Inquisitor, which I don't. I multiclass her with pet Barbarian focus.

 

 

+1 on first - i have personal problem with fanatic zealots - and priests in general - tho, kind of priest as Tristian is quite ok (even if i play chaotic neutral character)

 

And about Jaethal mad dog - i saw guides for that build... nah she does perfect as inquisitor, comparable to Amiri in power, and having so many support tools. If you feel she is squishy just give her mace+shield. Wish she had channeling, i wouldnt take priest with me at all, or make her priest, but that would mean one wasted level of inquisitor.

 

I was thinking - it cant be Obsidian writing, because in Tyranny i enjoyed, really enjoyed companions - except Barik bleh! Especially Sirin omg the best companion ever.

 

Theres something weird off in Deadfire companions, started with Durance and Aloth in POE1 - continuing with almost all companions in POE2. I read lot of people liked Durance, and i think they pushed it all this "pop" way. But for me he + Kana was most repulsive, same as Barik. 

 

+ I forgot Aloth in my post, because my POE1 save has him sacrificed. Even when i played with custom history, i just ignored him, except his quest. Guess why.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

I find it hard to object to Kana. Hes just a chatty graduate on his gap year, and one who embodies the positives of that stereotype. He's brave, open-minded and resilient. Even if those traits are born from privilege theyre still nice to be around.

 

As a companion, i feel he adds a lot to the game simply bcs he pipes up frequently and has a good stat spread. Hes colourful and weightless.

 

I dunno if valeries exeuction's entirely great, but i like the concept - feminine ideal who despises and rebels against her biology/destiny. Shes a similar beast to pallegina. Think main difference is pallegina doesnt let herself be vulnerable while valerie has a romance arc that i havent investigated. I dont think i want to tbh.

 

Lets just say if i were writing that character id shy away from attempting it. For the same reason i think naotos romance arc from P4 was Not Clever. Idea of romance 'fixing' someones self-concept not appealing at all imo. Maybe valeries romance arc nothing like that but i cant imagine it adding much even if it doesnt take away.

 

But other than that, valeries big problem is that her mechanical setup is bad. She cant take paladin levels, she cant take combat expertise, she hasnt got the wisdom to make really good use of inquisitor, which hobbles any attempt to send her down the intimidate route. Her DEX isnt good enough to take advantage of armour training. A lot of wasted potential there.

 

Like none of this would be a problem if kingmaker didnt insist u know ****, but it does.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Tangent, re: Sirin. Wasnt it Robert Land who wrote her? Thats a name that doesnt get mentioned v often, even its often in the margins. Potential dark horse maybe?

 

I wonder if hes likely to contribute much to his husbando's secret project? Its hard to tell really, sometimes spouses prefer to keep their professional lives separate to maintain marital harmony - eh pointless me speculating tbh. Just wondering what we might see next from the dude.

[Manveru123]

Valerie is like.. "I'm so pretty, everyone want me, get lost peeps, I'm so sad!" Then she's like.. "I'm no longer pretty, nobody adores me, what the hell, I'm so sad!"

 

Not to mention they could've used a bit better portrait for her, because her incredible in-game beauty feels severly overstated.

 

She behaves like she's 12.

 

As for the build, all you need to do is add Thug levels and grab Dazzling Display + Persuasion skill focus. This is the best way to use her Charisma. You can then improve her by dipping a little into other classes, like Monk (for crane style) or Stalwart Defender (nice level 1 bonuses). She's actually a pretty strong character if build properly.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Ye ive already specced her into thug, with the traditional 1 lv of vivisectionist for mutagen + sneak attack. I imagine she scales okay. Fighters normally do just bcs of feat glut.

 

Her conflict aint limited to 12 yr olds. If anything id say its more of a stereotypical quarter/midlife crisis thing. U resent being put in a box but in the transition to life outside it u always lose something - and sometimes its not what u predict. U see people go through that at every age.

 

Her flavour of dysmorphia is something that skews younger - the ageing process can do wonderful things for feminine visbility - but sometimes these things just dont wreak havoc until the persons autonomous enough to make substantial life decisions based on it.

[Manveru123]

Oh, about Valerie, this guy nailed it quite well.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/a16nzj/valerie_the_angel_of_death/

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Lol this looks quality. Fk i havent done all this cut and paste **** since NWN2.

[InsaneCommander]

Lol this looks quality. Fk i havent done all this cut and paste **** since NWN2.

 

I have a folder full of screenshots of this thread.

[Azdeus]

Read the patchnotes(On GOG) of today(?), you know a game has problems with bugs when even the patchnotes are "glitched" XD

Edited November 29, 2018 by Azdeus

[bringingyouthefuture]

But Jaethal is evil and moves about as fast as a tractor ...

 

Tristan looks like a line backer ...

 

Harim is probably my favorite ...

 

I am sick of Valerie's shield ...

 

The gnomes look like a mix between a Kender and a Hobbit ...

 

I don't know partly just joshing - I like Pathfinder, but lets be honest the character writing isn't even half as colorful as POE1 or 2.

 

@xzar_Monty - I considered sacrificing Xoti with Marux Amanth, which is always an option.  And nothing beats watching Pallegina storm off because she can't take a joke

 

I am still a little upset you get railroaded on quests since you can't attack NPCs.  I mean numerous times I have wanted to wipeout a village once I made peace with them.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Would say that it is a great start for Owlcat, and I think in the future they can expand on what they created and it is only going to get better and better!!

Edited November 29, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[Manveru123]

 

I don't know partly just joshing - I like Pathfinder, but lets be honest the character writing isn't even half as colorful as POE1 or 2.

Bull.

 

Have you met Jubilost? :D Please, if this guy was in Deadfire, Eder would at least have some competition.