Does anyone think the Kahanga are actually good for Deadfire?

[etno]

They aren't nescessarily"bad" for the Deadfire I think. They just won't be able to keep up with the Old empires and the former colonies. They will have to reform or they will be conquered. Sure, the Huana's "way of life" got some bad qualities to it, but not everything. Neketaka and the traditional way of Huana living dosen't seem to work tho.

[Zelse]

Caste system = modern slavery (India says hi)

 

Even though every Indian i have ever met gets butthurt when i tell him thats all his caste system really is.

 

Fk slavery! The Kahanga are the same as Crookspur in my book.

[AeonsLegend]

Caste system = modern slavery (India says hi)

 

Even though every Indian i have ever met gets butthurt when i tell him thats all his caste system really is.

 

Fk slavery! The Kahanga are the same as Crookspur in my book.

That's not modern at all. And it has nothing to do with slavery either. And slavery still exist. No wonder they get butt hurt.

[Amentep]

Address points not people.

 

If you don't like another poster, there is an ignore function.  We gently suggest that you use it.

 

This thread has been cleaned up in the hopes that it can be placed back on-topic.

[Taevyr]

My main problems with the Huana faction would be

 

1) That it isn't a Huana faction. It's the Kahanga faction: the most powerful and influential tribe, sure, but there're quite a few instances that show they're not the rulers of all Huana. Supporting them would necessarily lead to a forced unification of the Huana tribes, which wouldn't be pretty.

 

2) The caste system debacle. Enough has been said on it already in previous posts, which shouldn't need to be repeated. It'll only change through outside pressure/opportunity for the Roparu, which would be rendered impossible by a Huana victory as it involves culling outside influence in the deadfire.

 

3) While I love what they did in writing the traditional Huana society, the way they cling to it would be a disaster in the long run. The Kahanga aren't Wahaki-level isolationist, but they hang on to their traditions and beliefs strongly, limiting the potential for innovation and advancement of the archipelago; the failing caste system is the clearest symptom of this. Onekaza's continuous attempts at curtailing foreign influence are admirable, but only worsen that aspect of the situation.

 

4) Finally, the riches and resources of the Deadfire wouldn't disapper overnight, nor would the interest in it disappear. The Huana would gain much from Ukaizo, but they'd still be stuck with a heavily decentralized realm including dissident tribes, large-scale starvation among their population, a heavy tech disparity and no armed forces to speak of beyond Neketaka. Watershapers would be their ace in the hole, but even they aren't all fully loyal as the Undercroft shows, nor can they patrol the entire Deadfire single-handedly. Meanwhile, the RDC and VTC would have  plenty of unknown islands for both to keep a sizable presence, and have the funding, experience, and tech to stay. And plenty of reason as well.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Taevyr

[Verde]

As Celan said, its their home, so yes.

[Incendax]

Home to the Huana. Home to the Principi. Home to the VTC natives.
I think only the RDC are recent arrivals, and even they have the 'ancient home' angle.

[Verde]

But they can change and with your help they ARE changing.

[Incendax]

But they can change and with your help they ARE changing.

All the factions? Yes, I agree.

[Anmar]

If you look at Tonga which has the strongest surviving Polynesian caste system it is a horrible place to be born. You can't change your social strata, your older brothers are expected to boss you around persistently your entire life. It is worse if you are born into the Ariki or elite classes which are *very* complicated, because you get less choice about wht you do in life than if you are born a peasant. The only real hope for any of them is to escape to an industrialised nation.

 

Samoa which has a much lighter caste system is much more livable.

 

That said, the Tongans do seem to like being Tongan so I guess it works for them.

[Vitalis]

If you want to argue against the Kahanga in favor of Rautai or VTC, you have to successfully argue that colonialism isn't terrible. Which would be pretty difficult to argue given how badly it has usually turned out historically, leading to widespread oppression, exploitation, murder, discrimination, and leaving long term scars even after the colonial powers leave.

 

The historically demonstrated evils of colonialism are far worse than the deficits of Huana society. And there is plenty of evidence in game that the Rautai and VTC will be just as bad as real world colonial powers.

 

However if someone wants to make a case that the Indian caste system is worse than things like the British causing or amplifying famines leading to the deaths of millions, that would at least be a pretty interesting argument!

 

EDIT: To address the title of the thread, no I don't think the Kahango are 'good' for the Deadfire, just not as bad as the other two (this is ignoring the main plot, VTC Castol (animancy research) and Rautai (overall organization) could possibly be better at dealing with the wheel-smashing crisis).

Ah yes, the ever present "colonialism is bad mk" argument that only focuses on the past few centuries instead of the thousands of years of it in human society. Tribe A gets into a fight with Tribe B and wins, turning everyone from Tribe B into a slave. The Roman's conquered the Celts turning them into third class citizens until the former Celts became Roman's, those that resisted were killed. I don't know how many cultures the Maori conquered and ate, but given their prevalence in the Pacific Islands I'm going to wager it was quite a few.

 

Colonialism isn't a new concept, it isn't an evil system created by Europeans, it is a byproduct of the existence of humanity, and dare I say of life it self. Colonialism is just the term certain aspects of society are using to try to distance themselves from the finality that is human nature.

 

With that out of the way; For the Huana to have any realistic chance of survival they would have had to reformed under the Kahanga centuries before the Vailan's showed up. Without the players interference, the Deadfire would eventually fall to Rauatai, who are the clearest analogy to Imperial Rome, and all aspects of Huana culture would be purged. The Vailan's primary concern are the profits from their trade outposts, and it's unlikely that the Dukes would be willing to risk the chance of a colony failing over full out war with Rauatai. The Principi, who share numerous analogies to cultures that have lost their homeland and moved on, are sadly too fractured to be a substantial threat to any of the factions barring random disaster for Rauatai.

 

(Un)Fortunately, the player is a factor so if the player wants to empower the Huana so that the Huana can start their own brand of colonialism, they can while blissfully ignoring the irony of it all.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Vitalis

[ibanix]

The fact that the factions in this game caused a three-page thread debate indicates that writing for Deadfire is pretty damn good. Thanks, Obsidian.

[bugarup]

The fact that the factions in this game caused a three-page thread debate indicates that writing for Deadfire is pretty damn good. Thanks, Obsidian.

 

And it's not even the only thread. Nor the only forum. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by bugarup

[nstgc]

The fact that the factions in this game caused a three-page thread debate indicates that writing for Deadfire is pretty damn good. Thanks, Obsidian.

True. I have MANY misgivings about the writing, but over all its quite good.

[Taevyr]

The fact that the factions in this game caused a three-page thread debate indicates that writing for Deadfire is pretty damn good. Thanks, Obsidian.

 

If you think this is impressive, you should've seen the forum the week following Deadfire's release. It also helps that most forumites here are willing to have a civil discussion instead of starting a flame war.

[nstgc]

 

The fact that the factions in this game caused a three-page thread debate indicates that writing for Deadfire is pretty damn good. Thanks, Obsidian.

 

If you think this is impressive, you should've seen the forum the week following Deadfire's release. It also helps that most forumites here are willing to have a civil discussion instead of starting a flame war.

 

I can sum up the first week of posts: "Literally unplayable". Except they weren't talking about bugs, for the most part.