15 level dungeon

[Abel]

 

 

 

 There were so many spells you can cast per rest its almost impossible to use them all before people get below their max endurance threshold. I ended up just resting after every other fight anyways, but I would have to go back to town every 3rd rest to get the buffs and more camping supplies. Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management imo, and camping supplies are dirt cheap even in the very beginning of the game. The rest system in pillars 1 is the only thing i would mod out if i had to choose. make everything per encounter and remove health completely. Which thankfully pillars 2 did

 

 

I still fail to understand that. If you had to rest every other fight and backtrack to town, it's probably you used the wrong difficulty mode... I played hard difficulty, and i can't remember using camping supplies more than once or twice in Act 1 + Act 2 + WM1 (and no, i don't min max at all). I never ended up with spells i could not use because endurance was too low. I never had to buy any camping supply the whole time, and the vast majority i found as loot was of no use to me. What you are talking about is no resource management. It sounds like you actually did not manage resources at all, and then, found resource management was bad. Does not make sense.

 

Sorry, the whole "Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management" is as nonsensical as always to me.

[Crucis]

 

 

 

Its purpose was to be something you cant complete in a single run. Or if you wait until you are high level then you can but it will take a couple days (for first time attempting it). I agree that it sucks having to leave the dungeon to level up elsewhere though. I did not feel like the first pillars had very good resource management however. There were so many spells you can cast per rest its almost impossible to use them all before people get below their max endurance threshold. I ended up just resting after every other fight anyways, but I would have to go back to town every 3rd rest to get the buffs and more camping supplies. Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management imo, and camping supplies are dirt cheap even in the very beginning of the game. The rest system in pillars 1 is the only thing i would mod out if i had to choose. make everything per encounter and remove health completely. Which thankfully pillars 2 did

 

 

I strongly disagree with you, dixon.  I think that PoE1's resting mechanic was vastly better than PoE2's.  I think that it was great that you should have to conserve your supply of per-rest spells, rather than just spam your entire supply of spells and rest after every fricking battle! 

 

I always ... ALWAYS ... conserved my per-rest spell casting as much as possible and relied on my physical combatants to do the heavy lifting as much as possible.  I didn't want to rest after every frickin' battle or every other battle, just because I was spamming all my spells as fast as I could.  I considered it a challenge to get as far as possible on a single rest, before I'd used up Aloth's and Durance's supplies of spells.

 

IMO, PoE2 completely ruined one of the best aspects of PoE1 when it went to per-encounter spells.  I think that it's completely ridiculous that you don't have to rest in this game at all, barring the need to heal back some injuries or curses.  Even aside from the per-encounter crap, you should need to rest about once per day or suffer from fatigue.

 

I could deal with the per-encounter madness if there was still an absolute requirement to rest once per day to avoid serious fatigue penalties.  Note that I would assume that when you were traveling on your ship, you were getting the proper rest and that when you landed somewhere, you would be considered fully rested.  If I had my druthers, I'd love to see a rest/fatigue system that also accounts for engaging in battles, with each battle you fight reducing the time you have left before you need to rest again by a fixed number of hours.  The only thing is that unless there's some sort of underlying system that measures the time in battle each day or something, it wouldn't be able to differentiate between some minor encounter and a fairly difficult battle.  But it would be nice, from my perspective, if fighting took more out of you than just walking around, and that that was reflected in the time required between rests.

[dixon_sider]

 

 

 

 

 There were so many spells you can cast per rest its almost impossible to use them all before people get below their max endurance threshold. I ended up just resting after every other fight anyways, but I would have to go back to town every 3rd rest to get the buffs and more camping supplies. Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management imo, and camping supplies are dirt cheap even in the very beginning of the game. The rest system in pillars 1 is the only thing i would mod out if i had to choose. make everything per encounter and remove health completely. Which thankfully pillars 2 did

 

 

I still fail to understand that. If you had to rest every other fight and backtrack to town, it's probably you used the wrong difficulty mode... I played hard difficulty, and i can't remember using camping supplies more than once or twice in Act 1 + Act 2 + WM1 (and no, i don't min max at all). I never ended up with spells i could not use because endurance was too low. I never had to buy any camping supply the whole time, and the vast majority i found as loot was of no use to me. What you are talking about is no resource management. It sounds like you actually did not manage resources at all, and then, found resource management was bad. Does not make sense.

 

Sorry, the whole "Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management" is as nonsensical as always to me.

 

 

I meant that your health will fall below the maximum endurance threshold before you could use all your spells. There were simply so many spells that your health was the reason for resting almost every time

[cokane]

 

 

 

 

 

 There were so many spells you can cast per rest its almost impossible to use them all before people get below their max endurance threshold. I ended up just resting after every other fight anyways, but I would have to go back to town every 3rd rest to get the buffs and more camping supplies. Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management imo, and camping supplies are dirt cheap even in the very beginning of the game. The rest system in pillars 1 is the only thing i would mod out if i had to choose. make everything per encounter and remove health completely. Which thankfully pillars 2 did

 

 

I still fail to understand that. If you had to rest every other fight and backtrack to town, it's probably you used the wrong difficulty mode... I played hard difficulty, and i can't remember using camping supplies more than once or twice in Act 1 + Act 2 + WM1 (and no, i don't min max at all). I never ended up with spells i could not use because endurance was too low. I never had to buy any camping supply the whole time, and the vast majority i found as loot was of no use to me. What you are talking about is no resource management. It sounds like you actually did not manage resources at all, and then, found resource management was bad. Does not make sense.

 

Sorry, the whole "Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management" is as nonsensical as always to me.

 

 

I meant that your health will fall below the maximum endurance threshold before you could use all your spells. There were simply so many spells that your health was the reason for resting almost every time

 

Potions of infuse with vital essence

[dixon_sider]

 

 

 

 

Its purpose was to be something you cant complete in a single run. Or if you wait until you are high level then you can but it will take a couple days (for first time attempting it). I agree that it sucks having to leave the dungeon to level up elsewhere though. I did not feel like the first pillars had very good resource management however. There were so many spells you can cast per rest its almost impossible to use them all before people get below their max endurance threshold. I ended up just resting after every other fight anyways, but I would have to go back to town every 3rd rest to get the buffs and more camping supplies. Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management imo, and camping supplies are dirt cheap even in the very beginning of the game. The rest system in pillars 1 is the only thing i would mod out if i had to choose. make everything per encounter and remove health completely. Which thankfully pillars 2 did

 

 

I strongly disagree with you, dixon.  I think that PoE1's resting mechanic was vastly better than PoE2's.  I think that it was great that you should have to conserve your supply of per-rest spells, rather than just spam your entire supply of spells and rest after every fricking battle! 

 

I always ... ALWAYS ... conserved my per-rest spell casting as much as possible and relied on my physical combatants to do the heavy lifting as much as possible.  I didn't want to rest after every frickin' battle or every other battle, just because I was spamming all my spells as fast as I could.  I considered it a challenge to get as far as possible on a single rest, before I'd used up Aloth's and Durance's supplies of spells.

 

IMO, PoE2 completely ruined one of the best aspects of PoE1 when it went to per-encounter spells.  I think that it's completely ridiculous that you don't have to rest in this game at all, barring the need to heal back some injuries or curses.  Even aside from the per-encounter crap, you should need to rest about once per day or suffer from fatigue.

 

I could deal with the per-encounter madness if there was still an absolute requirement to rest once per day to avoid serious fatigue penalties.  Note that I would assume that when you were traveling on your ship, you were getting the proper rest and that when you landed somewhere, you would be considered fully rested.  If I had my druthers, I'd love to see a rest/fatigue system that also accounts for engaging in battles, with each battle you fight reducing the time you have left before you need to rest again by a fixed number of hours.  The only thing is that unless there's some sort of underlying system that measures the time in battle each day or something, it wouldn't be able to differentiate between some minor encounter and a fairly difficult battle.  But it would be nice, from my perspective, if fighting took more out of you than just walking around, and that that was reflected in the time required between rests.

 

 

im not saying it was bad, but I dont think it was good either. I spammed spells as often as i could and still had a difficult time using them all before I needed to rest my tanks/mele dps HP. I go about 2 large encounters then rest (maybe 1-2 large encounters per map). all the resource management was, was a way to spend extra time travelling and loading. I think pillars 2 is much better because I dont have to come back to the town for camping supplies and tavern bonuses. I still agree that the current method is not that great either however. The only exception to this is fighting some bosses, I would refresh my spells if i was missing just a few. But I REALLY wanted a mod that got rid of the resting and made everything per encounter because it just felt like a timesink and nothing more to me

 

maybe the new challenge blessings (forget the name) will add back in fatigue. I assume its not in the game because I rest often so I may have just never went 24 in game hours without resting

Edited June 22, 2018 by dixon_sider

[dixon_sider]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 There were so many spells you can cast per rest its almost impossible to use them all before people get below their max endurance threshold. I ended up just resting after every other fight anyways, but I would have to go back to town every 3rd rest to get the buffs and more camping supplies. Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management imo, and camping supplies are dirt cheap even in the very beginning of the game. The rest system in pillars 1 is the only thing i would mod out if i had to choose. make everything per encounter and remove health completely. Which thankfully pillars 2 did

 

 

I still fail to understand that. If you had to rest every other fight and backtrack to town, it's probably you used the wrong difficulty mode... I played hard difficulty, and i can't remember using camping supplies more than once or twice in Act 1 + Act 2 + WM1 (and no, i don't min max at all). I never ended up with spells i could not use because endurance was too low. I never had to buy any camping supply the whole time, and the vast majority i found as loot was of no use to me. What you are talking about is no resource management. It sounds like you actually did not manage resources at all, and then, found resource management was bad. Does not make sense.

 

Sorry, the whole "Forcing you to travel back to town is not a good method for resource management" is as nonsensical as always to me.

 

 

I meant that your health will fall below the maximum endurance threshold before you could use all your spells. There were simply so many spells that your health was the reason for resting almost every time

 

Potions of infuse with vital essence

 

when i used to use vital essence it took away the health increase after it wore off. did that change?

 

I dont think it heals health. I think it just adds a sort of stoneskin spell to the user

Edited June 22, 2018 by dixon_sider

[cokane]

when i used to use vital essence it took away the health increase after it wore off. did that change?

 

It takes away the bonus to the maximum, which didn't really matter anyways. But yes, that's not how it works now, it heals you, essentially.

[Silent Winter]

Personally I enjoyed the Endless Paths, but I don't feel like it was integral part of the game, nor that the devs had made a promise for it to be in the future PoE games.

 

Also, going back to the Fig campaign, the entire Fulvano's Voyage was a replacement for the Endless paths growing strechgoal.

Fulvano's voyage was supposed to be the multiple part adventure - but unless I missed a trigger, it ended up being just a few different islands to be done in any order and having no connection (not even the Fulvano's letters / letters about Fulvano type thing from PoE1)

 

As to the endless paths - I enjoyed it mostly - could do with being a bit shorter / more focussed - but as mentioned above, the PoE2 rest+resource system would make it less of a challenge/adventure - it'd be down to (player v. enemy) levels only.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Silent Winter

[dixon_sider]

 

Personally I enjoyed the Endless Paths, but I don't feel like it was integral part of the game, nor that the devs had made a promise for it to be in the future PoE games.

 

Also, going back to the Fig campaign, the entire Fulvano's Voyage was a replacement for the Endless paths growing strechgoal.

Fulvano's voyage was supposed to be the multiple part adventure - but unless I missed a trigger, it ended up being just a few different islands to be done in any order and having no connection (not even the Fulvano's letters / letters about Fulvano type thing from PoE1)

 

As to the endless paths - I enjoyed it mostly - could do with being a bit shorter / more focussed - but as mentioned above, the PoE2 rest+resource system would make it less of a challenge/adventure - it'd be down to (player v. enemy) levels only.

 

 

I dont see how the PoE1 rest system changed the endless paths difficulty in any way. You could rest infinite number of times even on PotD. It was one loading screen away. It just added travel time and loading screens. I rest as soon as someone reaches yellow health every time. No point not to

[Wormerine]

I dont see how the PoE1 rest system changed the endless paths difficulty in any way. You could rest infinite number of times even on PotD. It was one loading screen away. It just added travel time and loading screens. I rest as soon as someone reaches yellow health every time. No point not to

It didn't add much difficulty wise, but the fantasy was there - going for an expedition, with limited supplies and having to backtrack to get more, and go back into the dungeon. 

[Yosharian]

Obsi just doesn't have the deep pockets for this kind of mega-dungeon

[evilcat]

15 floors? That is a lot of content, and it could be hard to keep it consistent, and not feel like fantasy safari. Also that gives only 1 resolution, so player could forgot what is all about. Very dominant over whole gamin.

 

Other aproach: 4 medium size 3-4 floor dungeons on different character levels. Each with some story and resolution.

Such aproach should come more naturally. Easier to mesh into world, like having caverns or ruins on some islands or other stronhold.

 

One thing is savege sewage in Neketaka ormore Catacombs. So if player get bored with all exposition and talk quest could just go kill something .

[InsaneCommander]

when i used to use vital essence it took away the health increase after it wore off. did that change?

 

I dont think it heals health. I think it just adds a sort of stoneskin spell to the user

 

Oh yes, I remember that time when we could heal with potions of infuse with vital essence.

[uuuhhii]

there was a map before release suggest a deep dungeon

but please no

a bigger old city would be nice

[gkathellar]

 

when i used to use vital essence it took away the health increase after it wore off. did that change?

 

I dont think it heals health. I think it just adds a sort of stoneskin spell to the user

 

Oh yes, I remember that time when we could heal with potions of infuse with vital essence.

 

 

IIRC the trick is to use the potions at the start of the fight, so any health loss comes out of the bonus, rather than your actual pool.

 

I never did this, mind, so I may not be recalling it right.

[InsaneCommander]

IIRC the trick is to use the potions at the start of the fight, so any health loss comes out of the bonus, rather than your actual pool.

 

I never did this, mind, so I may not be recalling it right.

 

There was a time when you could start a battle with red/yellow health bars and if you used a potion (increasing your health, changing the bar to green) and didn't take enough damage you'd keep the bar green.

[Silent Winter]

 

 

Personally I enjoyed the Endless Paths, but I don't feel like it was integral part of the game, nor that the devs had made a promise for it to be in the future PoE games.

 

Also, going back to the Fig campaign, the entire Fulvano's Voyage was a replacement for the Endless paths growing strechgoal.

Fulvano's voyage was supposed to be the multiple part adventure - but unless I missed a trigger, it ended up being just a few different islands to be done in any order and having no connection (not even the Fulvano's letters / letters about Fulvano type thing from PoE1)

 

As to the endless paths - I enjoyed it mostly - could do with being a bit shorter / more focussed - but as mentioned above, the PoE2 rest+resource system would make it less of a challenge/adventure - it'd be down to (player v. enemy) levels only.

 

 

I dont see how the PoE1 rest system changed the endless paths difficulty in any way. You could rest infinite number of times even on PotD. It was one loading screen away. It just added travel time and loading screens. I rest as soon as someone reaches yellow health every time. No point not to

 

I know some people played that way - returning to town for supplies so they could rest after almost every fight - I just don't get that.  I preferred to play it a bit more roleplaying - using rest when needed and pushing my party through the adventure even when they're not at their best.

Endless Paths provided a good opportunity to do that (even if returning to the surface - should I try to go on and hope to find a master staircase soon, or should I backtrack a couple of levels and play it safe?)

But to each their own.  I think a longer dungeon with 'no rest' zones might work (but then some people would still backtrack and rest in a safe zone after every fight and complain that they're forced to, instead of facing the challenge as presented).  It's hard to account for everyone's play-styles.

[InsaneCommander]

I know some people played that way - returning to town for supplies so they could rest after almost every fight - I just don't get that.  I preferred to play it a bit more roleplaying - using rest when needed and pushing my party through the adventure even when they're not at their best.

Endless Paths provided a good opportunity to do that (even if returning to the surface - should I try to go on and hope to find a master staircase soon, or should I backtrack a couple of levels and play it safe?)

But to each their own.  I think a longer dungeon with 'no rest' zones might work (but then some people would still backtrack and rest in a safe zone after every fight and complain that they're forced to, instead of facing the challenge as presented).  It's hard to account for everyone's play-styles.

 

Exactly how I played. Trying to keep a few spells for a tougher battle and hoping there were no surprises left. Or maybe actually wanting a few surprises.

[Silent Winter]

 

I know some people played that way - returning to town for supplies so they could rest after almost every fight - I just don't get that.  I preferred to play it a bit more roleplaying - using rest when needed and pushing my party through the adventure even when they're not at their best.

Endless Paths provided a good opportunity to do that (even if returning to the surface - should I try to go on and hope to find a master staircase soon, or should I backtrack a couple of levels and play it safe?)

But to each their own.  I think a longer dungeon with 'no rest' zones might work (but then some people would still backtrack and rest in a safe zone after every fight and complain that they're forced to, instead of facing the challenge as presented).  It's hard to account for everyone's play-styles.

 

Exactly how I played. Trying to keep a few spells for a tougher battle and hoping there were no surprises left. Or maybe actually wanting a few surprises.

 

Sure, I'll jump down that hole  ... WTF?!  Argh, I guess I'll run away through those Xaurips and hope to find a staircase LOL.  (So I guess there wasn't always a safe path behind you).

Also there's using those spells against lesser enemies to reduce health loss vs. saving them for a bigger challenge.  Every hit mattered in PoE as endurance loss was always taken out of health.  Now there's a free heal at the end of every fight.  I do prefer the overall encounter design of Deadfire though so I guess there's a trade-off.

[InsaneCommander]

Sure, I'll jump down that hole  ... WTF?!  Argh, I guess I'll run away through those Xaurips and hope to find a staircase LOL.  (So I guess there wasn't always a safe path behind you).

Also there's using those spells against lesser enemies to reduce health loss vs. saving them for a bigger challenge.  Every hit mattered in PoE as endurance loss was always taken out of health.  Now there's a free heal at the end of every fight.  I do prefer the overall encounter design of Deadfire though so I guess there's a trade-off.

 

I'm not a fan of the health/endurance system, but what you describe is a good reason for it. I'm enjoying the encounters in Deadfire too but the per combat spells give a very different feeling.

[Clawdius_Talonious]

I responded to the questionnaire saying that I really liked the endless paths of Caed Nua, in particular the fact that you likely had to revisit the location as you progressed, which created a nice gameplay loop.

 

I'd have really liked it if they could have crammed at least another few layers under Nekataka, maybe a key or two scattered on other islands, temples to more deities (possibly even Eothas?) that could have been an interesting way to tie an element of that massive dungeon into PoE2. That said, the 15 levels felt at times like they were just padded out, there because they were a stretch goal. Fifteen levels was a bit much, and there was no need for that level of depth in any one dungeon.

 

A DLC that added a massive dungeon with reasons to encounter it early and want to return would be a welcome thing, but given the nature of the DLCs I don't think we'll see it. If there was a fourth DLC that added something of that nature I'd enjoy it, but it would be hard to find a place where it fit naturally in the progression and you'd run across it in a way that didn't seem odd. Level scaling could help, but likely not entirely alleviate that issue. Of course, as a fan of the mega-dungeon, I'd buyit and go there even if I had to sail to The Vailian Republics.

[Lorfean]

If anyone is upset they did not add a 15 layer dungeon like me then please post here. I love the game to death but I always thought the 15 layer dungeon would be a staple of pillars of eternity, and omitting it from the game leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. I understand that the devs are human, and it takes a lot of work to do something like a 15 level dungeon, but I would pay money for a 15 layer dungeon in a heartbeat.

 

I know if there was a 15 layer dungeon in the game then there would be less content somewhere else. But I want to beg obsidain PLEASE make a huge dungeon like in pillars 1. That would be a very nice staple to have and something for the fans to expect in every game, giving people a greater sense of security when deciding if they want to buy the game. For example, if I was to consider buying call of duty 95 and it had zombies, then I would feel more safe about making the purchase because I know zombies will be in the game, and even if the game continues its insanely fast declining quality multiplayer then I would still be able to enjoy the purchase. 

 

Anyone else that would like to see a 15 level dungeon as an expansion?

Although the mega-dungeon  was a nice stretch goal idea for PoE1, it clearly got away from them when it reached 15 levels and I never though it was a particularly engaging piece of content. Each to his own I guess, but I vastly prefer "dungeon content" similar to Raedric's Hold -- which we got in Deadfire in the shape of Fort Deadlight and Hasongo, which were both awesome. I also really enjoyed The Hanging Sepulchers and The Old City, both in Neketaka, though the latter admittedly could've been a bit bigger.

 

But yeah, I'm always for more dungeon content, though I don't think they need to be 15 levels. In fact, I think I'd prefer them not to be that big. Some of my favorite dungeons ever -- Durlag's Keep, Dragon's Eye, The Severed Hand, Upper and Lower Dorn's Deep, Durgan's Battery -- are between 5 and 10 levels, which IMO is the sweet spot.

[rjshae]

Yes, the whole Kickstarter mechanic for generating the dungeon levels kind of backfired a bit in making Endless Paths longer than it needed to be. I prefer fewer, broader levels that emphasize the three dimensional nature of the dungeon.

[Crucis]

 

If anyone is upset they did not add a 15 layer dungeon like me then please post here. I love the game to death but I always thought the 15 layer dungeon would be a staple of pillars of eternity, and omitting it from the game leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. I understand that the devs are human, and it takes a lot of work to do something like a 15 level dungeon, but I would pay money for a 15 layer dungeon in a heartbeat.

 

I know if there was a 15 layer dungeon in the game then there would be less content somewhere else. But I want to beg obsidain PLEASE make a huge dungeon like in pillars 1. That would be a very nice staple to have and something for the fans to expect in every game, giving people a greater sense of security when deciding if they want to buy the game. For example, if I was to consider buying call of duty 95 and it had zombies, then I would feel more safe about making the purchase because I know zombies will be in the game, and even if the game continues its insanely fast declining quality multiplayer then I would still be able to enjoy the purchase. 

 

Anyone else that would like to see a 15 level dungeon as an expansion?

Although the mega-dungeon  was a nice stretch goal idea for PoE1, it clearly got away from them when it reached 15 levels and I never though it was a particularly engaging piece of content. Each to his own I guess, but I vastly prefer "dungeon content" similar to Raedric's Hold -- which we got in Deadfire in the shape of Fort Deadlight and Hasongo, which were both awesome. I also really enjoyed The Hanging Sepulchers and The Old City, both in Neketaka, though the latter admittedly could've been a bit bigger.

 

But yeah, I'm always for more dungeon content, though I don't think they need to be 15 levels. In fact, I think I'd prefer them not to be that big. Some of my favorite dungeons ever -- Durlag's Keep, Dragon's Eye, The Severed Hand, Upper and Lower Dorn's Deep, Durgan's Battery -- are between 5 and 10 levels, which IMO is the sweet spot.

 

 

I don't think of Raedric's castle as a dungeon, per se.  Well, the dungeon itself was a true dungeon, i.e. jail or prison.  When I think of a dungeon in a game like these, I'm thinking more of a mysterious cave complex.  It's hard to think of a something like the above ground portion of Raedric's keep as a "dungeon" in the loose sense of the word, because it's an active castle, rather than some dark, dank, and mysterious cavern infested with monsters.

 

Hey, clearing out some evil warlord's keep is nice enough too.  But I always like to have that dark, dank, mysterious cavern infested with dread monsters too.  I said it earlier, but the dungeon in IWD1's Trials of the Luremaster was a great "dungeon".  Nicely large.  Mysterious.  And very fun.

[no1fanboy]

one of the islands has a dungeon, next to port maje