fortuntek

I've noticed that most games lately prevent you from doing things like this... is it because graphics have become better in recent years, making such acts more... well, graphic? Also seems to correlate more to games played in 1st or 3rd person behind-the-shoulder style games perhaps

I'd have no problem with the main quest thing personally, but doesn't the ability to attack children affect ESRB ratings or something? Have devs stated that they're going for a Mature rating?

We all know that extensive world lore is established and scattered throughout a game in order to give the player some sense of being within a larger setting than the game takes place in, and to give that setting some story depth. But how else can we root players in a gaming experience and have them feel as a part of it? I strongly feel that gameplay mechanics and NPC statistics help create an enjoyable sense of blending within a setting as well, and I've come to appreciate the game mechanics of certain games, especially Infinity Engine games, that enable this. For example: The ability to attack any game creature (except possibly main quest NPC's or children) with consequences City Guards/Militia, neutral adventurers and the like not being complete useless pushovers NPC's have a functional combat level adequate to who they're supposed to be even if you're not meant to fight them A general sense of there being people in the world who are much, much stronger than you even by endgame I heard that in terms of power, our characters in P:E will end the game at about the equivalent of level 12 in D&D. This is pretty moderate and I think it's a good place to end for the first game in what could possibly turn out to be a series if successful. But regardless if there ends up being sequels or not, I don't want to be able to blast through whatever I come across (should I choose to) towards the end of the game. I enjoy that if I attack say, the veteran General of the city army while in his barracks or whatnot, he will spank my sorry butt and it will be reload time. Well that was fun; note to self, am not a god. While this doesn't serve any direct purpose to the combat mechanics, it DOES serve a purpose for world building and giving players a sense of the setting they're in. In other words, it helps avoid "gamey" elements that break immersion and remind the player that the story was crafted specifically around them for their situation only. I'm all for avoiding this sort of thing where possible; what do you guys think?

Here are a few (briefly stated) types of the armor progression systems that are being mentioned: "Maximization system" Players aim to maximize (or minimize) a single armor stat. (A/D&D) Problems: Too many to list. "Two-option Maximization system" Players aim to maximize a stat by taking one of two viable routes, such as Str vs Dex (3rd Ed D&D) Problems: Armors in the middle of those best for either route are fairly useless; at most two armor builds per class Possible solution: Introduce "perks" of some kind for middle-tier armors that add functionality equal to that gained by the maximizing route "Tier progression system" Have a set number of tiers with various armor types per tier where one type is functionally replaced by the one in the next tier (Sawyer's update) Problems: Forces players to upgrade to the next tier to maintain maximum effectiveness, even if it conflicts with their character concept (there's a second potential problem mentioned but I think that it is not necessarily a problem with the armor system, per se). Potential Solution: Introduce "perks" of some kind for lower tiers of armor that grant players the option of sticking with that tier instead of moving to the next. There's also a problem with the "perks" solution, no matter how it's implemented. At best, what that perk is really accomplishing is allowing for other options of customizing characters. For example, say you have a two-option system, Str and Dex, and a Barbarian class whose abilities rely heavily on a third stat, Speed. Str and Dex do not affect Speed; the Barbarian can choose to maximize one or the other. However if you introduce middle-tier armors that increase the characters Speed stat, this becomes a third viable option for Barbarian characters. Then of course you need to provide similar middle-tier benefits for all classes. This addition essentially keeps the two-options but allows the utility of items to fill the gap in between. The point is, no matter how many times you do this, you're still only allowing for "somewhere in between two polar extremes," and the system is still overall fairly shallow as a result. On the other hand, a system where you can mix and match from a broader array of variables provides more depth but is far more difficult to balance. So what do you choose? I'd say, choose the system with the greatest number of viable player options that can practically be balanced within the development time frame. Which option is that? I'm not sure, but I'm liking the "Tier system" with however many "perk" options might be afforded players.

Yes, another common cultural idea (again, popularized by the ancient Greeks mythology, but also specifically Plato in his Symposium.) It's written as a series of dialogues where each chapter features a speech by a different prominent intellectual as they all sit around and drink lol. I believe Plato wrote of the idea as coming from Aristophenes if I recall correctly, where he talks about souls forming as a whole and splitting upon creation, and the nature of love is the search for the lost half, or something to that effect. While I'd like to say that I remember that from the top of my head, it just so happens that I am even now procrastinating from writing a paper on that very book, which is lying open on my computer desk at this moment haha. Although I think Plato's more famous pupil Aristotle is more responsible for truly popularizing that idea and expanding on it which is where we get our contemporary idea of soul mates IIRC. While I'm not overly fond of hazy ideals of souls and soul mates in the real world, I think it can help create a foundation for the fiction of this sort of world and I'm looking forward to hearing what the writers come up with! edit: Oops! I totally misread your post, I thought you were talking of two people sharing the same soul; sorry!

Do we know anything about the nature of souls in P:E yet? Hints, things mentioned that anyone picked up in interviews or anything? I suspect that souls will be rather "fantasized" rather than philosophical or even religious in origin for the P:E setting... basically existing as an unexplained phenomena that mystifies people and intrigues scholars. I'm fond of having some mystery to it, but I can't help but wanting to know a bit more

Good point. So what I would like to have in the Stronghold is spa, sauna, elven gardens, school, ballista, inventor's tower, walkable dungeon+torture room+kill room where I can actually do stuff. Oh and some livestock would be nice too. Maybe a rat problem or two, no more as it would become obnoxious. I would like to have a robotic Majordomo named Gaidertron who shoots romance inducing-lasers out of his eyes if I choose any dialogue choice that doesn't follow one of three preset personalities, a female thief childhood companion that waits around my castle for months staring at her feet until I decide to crack the whip and give her life purpose (only to use her as a human trap-exploder in the end), and.... a dragon. No, lots of dragons. No, one-eyed tenctacle floaters that stare you to death. Ahh, I can't make up my mind

Of course not, Bioware is under domination of the evil EA overlord (har har) and makes a mix between action, RPG and movie for mass entertainment. Sadly, yes... but it took me quite some time to hang up my Bioware hat Politics aside, I just try to stay optimistic towards each game by them and others as hopefully being good enough to hold my admittedly spazzy attention span long enough to get really into it. But let's not open an Obsidian vs Bioware war Regardless of any good points made, it's the entire thread that suffers... Although, that won't stop people from arguing: "Project Eternity's Stronghold has x feature!" "Oh yeah, well Bioware's y feature will mop the floor with..." and blah blah blah and so on

That also crossed my mind. But... even if they both end up pursuing similar key game features, the games are so utterly different at this point; could you really even still say that Obsidian and Bioware are in direct competition on this front?

Unfortunately most of the world also sees it this way

Hmm... I am all for excluding "atheism," and to a lesser degree "agnosticism" as part of game mechanics (although I am quite firmly an agnostic soft/implicit atheist, if not a downright theological noncognitivist for most religious propositions). The reason being, for me, is simple: I already spend all day discussing such things during my seminars and presentations, I don't really want to come home and have it be part of my game too. Though I will admit, this is a purely selfish reason for wanting it to be this way. Nihilism, on the other hand, I think would fit quite nicely. Mind you, only in the vague and misappropriated sense that people seem to use the term; let's not worry about what we mean when we say we're a nihilist, whether it's a religious or moral or existential nihilism we're talking about... let's just agree to keep it vague and wave off any Nietzschean subtext. Particularly, I like the idea attributed to the Dwemer (I don't remember reading that, but it sounds neat). I feel like that sort of attitude would fit the atmosphere of this setting, though it's really too hard to say at this early stage.

In fact, forget the blackjack. Ah, screw the whole thing. Just in reading people's comments, we seem to want some kind of hybrid between BG2's De'Arnise Keep, and NWN2's Crossroads Keep (plus with requests for some sort of army to train up and use somehow). Sounds great, if a bit generic. Am I alone in hoping we could see something outside of the box, story related and a bit more than the same ol'? Now before people jump on me, no, I don't have any particular astonishingly great and unique ideas off the top of my head. I'm just a bit worried that with all of P:E extraordinary creative potential, we'll end up just badgering them into doing regular stuff that, while cool, isn't anything special even if perfectly executed. (I'm thinking Planar Sphere-like stories intertwined with your Stronghold, something different than pushing us through military exercises.)

The original Greek concept where our idea of the "soul" comes from is actually a lot more sophisticated than is it's usually creditedfor. Now I'm no expert, but I do know that the soul is not traditionally as simple as a manifestation of one's personality, essence, "you"-ness or whatever the case may be. (Let's try to refrain from consulting Wikipedia and other search engines, people; they're woefully inadequate for such topics unfortunately ) As far as I'm aware, to the ancient Greeks the "soul" was a purely metaphysical form, essentially a concept, and not a material thing. Most people these days think of the idea of a soul as some sort of immortal individuality (thanks to the Christians hijacking the term) but originally the soul could inhabit just about anything; people, objects, movements, ideas... in this way, having two souls in one body makes sense at least a little bit. I'm not sure what the official canon for souls will be in P:E, but I hope it's something more along these lines, personally (at least insofar as it is more mysterious and intriguing than a simple "this is the incorporeal you, enjoy!"). edit: Though I suppose souls will have to have some material aspect in this setting, to make sense of how they travel from one body to another after death?

I'll do it with one hand tied behind my back. And one leg.

I'm afraid a mega dungeon this big will break the game. Think about it: in order to make players want to explore it the dungeon has to have exceedingly worthwhile rewards the farther down you go, which typically means housing some of the best items; weapons, armor, or whatever floats your boat. Is this dungeon going to be meant to be optional, or integral towards beating the game? It sounds like it's going to be optional, which means the main story quests and final battles will be balanced to be beatable by those who didn't go through this huge dungeon, and will probably be easy as hell for those that do. Therefore players are highly encouraged to explore the dungeon if they want the best loot, but are likely to just cruise through the ending afterwards. I'm not saying it will happen exactly like this, just that I'm worried it will cause a host of balancing issues. This dungeon is more than twice the size of Watcher's Keep, what kind of goodies will need to be put in it to make it worthwhile to players other than on their first playthrough and what ramifications will this have?

Counting Paypal contributions, Project Eternity probably already passed Double Fine's record a while ago! If I know the Obsidian team (and I don't) but IF I DID, I'd say they're all already drunk as celebratory skunks right now and passed out. Yup.

I just commented on one of them, saying that he (or someone) should start the campaign to feature one of his songs in a tavern or inn or something. Make it happen!

I wasn't aware of the name behind MotB (and I'm still not clear on just how much of it he wrote personally) but I can certainly see the draw. I only played it through once or twice when it was still new and the overall story is hazy in my memory at this point, but the atmosphere, style, and dark feeling themes are hard to forget and that's a pretty strong point in the writer's favor. For MotB, for me at least, it wasn't precisely what happened that was most important, but how I felt as everything unfolded. If P:E can hit that sweet spot, I'll be one happy man. I'd wager that George has already been approached by the team and if there's any possibility at all of the logistics of it working out, I'd say they are probably still in talks. I'm sure he'd love to join and the devs would love to have him but if it means taking a pay cut and a lesser position with less creative authority? Well... not sure that wishes and hopes will really overcome that. If the P:E team is serious about getting him on board, they need to find him the money as well as open a position which is less "subordinate" to Avellone, and more comparable to the level of autonomy he's been afforded while working on his most recent games. If that's not possible, I'm not sure that George will find it in his best interests to return no matter how interested he may be in the project.

Since souls are important to the game's lore, it'd be cool to come across a weapon tied to a particular strong soul such as the PC's or a particular companions, etc. In the item history, it could describe how other iterations of that soul in other bodies had used that legendary item (and perhaps there were past lives which did not come in contact with it at all.) A sort of bond between weapon and soul. If I had an extra $1000 lying around to donate on kickstarter, I'd write an epic level item history somewhere alone these lines maybe.

Really enjoying getting home or waking up and seeing a new update posted already. The swift meetings and decisions made and communicated to us is really appreciated.

It doesn't sound like they're planning on going for the "three class archetype" system and then branching out, but rather seem to be planning to include a set number of base classes (five? seven?) based on how much funding they end up with. I am fine with this. But I also really enjoy specializing later in the game... meta-analyse what it means to have a class all you want, my main point is that sometimes having major developments to your character later on is something that really keeps players interested in continuing the game, something to look forward to. Mind you, for those who are not interested in altering their class/character idea part way through, then they should have the option of staying vanilla (therefore this would have to be balanced as to not be a disadvantage, i.e. any benefits you gain from advanced classes or whatever it happens to be must also be offset by disadvantages, similar to class kits perhaps.) It's just an idea that I would enjoy, for anyone who disagrees that's fine as it's just a matter of subjective preference. One final note... wouldn't it be cool if advanced/prestige classes were gained through completing a major quest chain to join a particular faction? :D Think BG2 Thieve's guild sort of thing except where you become, say, an assassin instead of just a thief, or becoming a Paladin by joining the associated Order and proving your integrity through testing and whatnot. (without unlocking it as a "menu option" on later playthroughs a la Dragon Age). I say, let this determine how we becoming extra specialized; why pick a class like "Spy" or "Assassin" or Paladin, or ANYTHING like that if your character has no prior in-game history being related to any of those things? (without taking it too far; I wouldn't try to extrapolate this to say that we should learn how to be a magic-user in game, for instance.) Let extra specialized classes be tied to lore and make cohesive sense in game. I think this would increase immersion and fit the spirit of this sort of game.

I am also tired of the cooldown system, but using some alternative means might be problematic. In D&D based games you had a system where you could use a spell or ability only so many times a day before resting, but it's still up in the air how resting will be handled in PE. From what I gathered, they don't want to repeat the problem where you simply rest/reload after every battle. Alternatively they could use a "mana" like resource system with no cooldowns, similar to KotOR, but... I don't know. Maybe a new solution is needed. Ideas?

I'd love to see a system with some sort of branching advanced classes or prestige classes or the like. Something to further customize our character that doesn't necessarily take place at character creation and offers a strong reward to look forward to part way through the game.

Jim Cummings is practically the voice of Icewind Dale, every time I hear him in anything it brings me back to that. That, or back to Leatherhead on the original Ninja Turtles

It has to fit the character. BG2 did this pretty well with so many options, whereas NWN2 had Crossroads Keep which was much more fleshed out and was customizable, but only felt appropriate to Fighter-type characters. My mage playthrough just felt out of place and not as supported by the that part of the story.