Wormerine

Just played "Into the Breach" for about an hour (new tactics game from FTL people). It's really really good. Seems like those guys have some serious design chops, not just one hit wonder.

The thing is... do you want shock1 or not? I didn't play shock1 but the only reason I have interest in the project is because I wanted to play Shock1. I am playing through Baldur's Gate1: EE. All the technical improvements are great. I am not a fan of creative changes - whenever it is use of BG2 system, changes to design, new companions etc. Not that BG1 was perfect - far from it. But when I play BG1 I want to play BG1, and removing and adding elements to BG1 is messing with what the game is.

I think my favourite was of doing is assigning what abilities can be upgraded with given class (for example arcana, alchemy, explosives, metaphysics, history for a wizard) and allow players to distribute skill points among those on their own. Same with backgrounds. Some choices make more sense to me than others, even though between different people I seem to disagree which ones should change. <shrug> I allow bonuses dictate my background and culture for the most part, so whatever.

It’s a shame. Never played Shock1, loved Shock2, Deus Ex and Thief games (first two at least). I was hoping for this remake to be an opportunity to play it in a shinier form. Departure from a straight up remake was a disappointment and current state of affairs is disappointing indeed. Systemshock 3 is still happening, so hopefully that will turn out alright. That said, as a not backer, I find it difficult to be angry or really care. Devs proved themselves unreliable and will have a black mark from me, until they manage to regain their trust. Product can not come out and that is a part of a Crowdfunding. The problem seems similar to that of Broken Age - dev getting too excited with response and trying to deliver something “bigger” than they pitched. No one asked for a redesign, reconstruction, reimagining. Broken Age was to be a small, nostalgic point&click - Systemshock a straight up remake. We didn’t get either of those things.

Josh wanted players to be able to multiclass their companions however they like, with lore explanation being up to the player. If ya wanted your Eder to be a priest or a mage or a chanter it was up to you. The change was never made from ideological reasons but practical ones. Quoting another Josh explenation from Deadfire stream no. 8. He isn't against it, but it seems developing UI to support more broad multiclassing system from companions required more resources than they were believed was worth it. Maybe it will become more flexible with future patches, probably not. It is how it is. If you are not happy with what is provided, feel free to express your displeasure so devs can see it and maybe expand companion multiclassing in the future. "How will multiclassing for companions work? JS: I actually addressed this last time so I don't want to go through it a ton of times again, but there are technical issues that will make it a little difficult for us to do true unlimited multiclassing and respeccing with companions. Right now we have something in where it's basically three main sort of multiclassing options for every character, or rather, there's a base class and two multiclass options. That's what we're currently using. That can expand in the future. I don't want to get everyone's hopes crazy up, nor do I want to say it's impossible, but it is — we basically did an analysis of how expensive it would be to rework the character creation and leveling up system to handle that, and it was not a small amount of work. So, before I say, "Yeah, we're definitely going to do it", I have to caution you that we might not have the time to do that. At least at launch. That's how that is currently."

Still, what would be an effect of having resolve below 10. A chance for an ability to consume 2x resources? Not a fan. My main problem with the "random empower" isn't that it related to empower, but that it is random. Having a low chance roll to refund resources used, is still crappy and inconsistant with other attibutes, though possible less extreme that power spikes of radom empowerment.

It's worse than that. An appropriately built Orlan can start the game with 20 Resolve. Then with an Inspiration they can hit 25, so 45%. That's before any bonuses to Resolve from equipment or non-Inspiration buffs (what does Crowns of the Faithful do with Resolve currently?). By the way, what exactly does the negative chance from going below 10 Resolve mean? Would it mean an X% chance to have the power level of your ability reduced? I think so: 20 resolve = after 10 seconds of battle with every use of ability there is 30% to cast its empowered version (+5 power level). 3 resolve = after 10 seconds of battle with every use of ability there is 21% to cast its depowered version (-5 power level). Ahhhh, where to start. In extreme cases it seems really really strong or really really crappy - with low resolve do not use your abilities after first 10 seconds of combat. At the same time a small variance of resolve (9, 11, 12) seems simply irrelevant: you have 12 resolve - you have 6% chance to empower your ability. XCOM2 has an weapon attatchment which with everyshot gives you 5% chance to kill an enemy. Guess how many times in one playthrough (40-80hours?) does it happen. 2-3 times? (I suspect it might be rigged though, which invalidates comparison. When it happens it is always surprisingly helpful). While other attributes give consistant bonus with every point invested, resolve seems like an "All in or bust" situation. I have been thinking what was said on the forum, and I wouldn't mind a "WIld Mage" subclass which trades per rest empower with this random mechanic. But making it an attribute? I might create a mage which focuses on might and resolve, but for most part resolve will be between 8-10. Again taking XCOM example, though due to different mechanics it might be a wrong comparison - a +1 constant damage is better than low chance all in. There is a reason War of the Chosen locked many weapons from using scope attatchment (+15 aim) - as much as 15% to regain action, or kill someone in one hit etc. might seem "fun" they are just not reliable enough to be part of a strategy, while flat aim, damage, armor, life, penetration boost allow player to use those advantages.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3807509&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=407#post481654848

I really cant come up with a good idea. I like the increasing/decreasing of afflictions, at least conceptually. I noticed that a lot of those suggestions talk about benefits only, while a system attached to the attribute has to have up and downsides, as well as be scalable with every level. For example things like maiming, or regeneration - what would be a downside of having resolve of 3? Constant raw damage? Chance to die on every injury gained? The issue with resolve is that it needs to be tied to the existing chacter stats, and all of them are already accounted for. Random Empower seems gimmicky, and so do many of the suggestions above. Another issue I have with Josh’s idea is that it will affect only a character who has a very high or very low resolve - unless they rig it, so it has to empower/depower after certain amount of skills were used.

I wouldn't mind if different weapons reacted differently do different stats - might&dexterity increasing damage and chance to hit for swords, perception&might would incease accuracy and decrese reload time with firearms etc. (I am using might as it seems that is what in the end we will be getting) However, that wouldn't really add much to the game, while making it more difficult to understand for players and to balance for devs. PoE system is elegant and fairly easy to understand, at least where attributes are concerned. The best system is one, which gives players as much flexibility with as little research as possible.

Free multiclassing for companions was pitched during crowdfunding, so disappointed is understandable. Stilll, between options that are given and merceneries its hardly seems like a problem.

They want to revert back to might, and the end of Josh post suggest they might do it even if substitute empower mechanic for resolve won’t pan out.

if your going with percent chance stuff maybe you can do a small percent chance to upgrade your miss->graze->hit->crit. This would affect more stuff than empower. I feel like Josh needs to start trusting his better judgement more.

Eh, problem is it would be useful only if you had super high resolve. What would be the downside of having low resolve? It would have a massive spot where resolve would do nothing - have it at 3 or 7 or 12 and you probably won’t reach the “empower” threshold.

From what I understand, they want to return to might. Random chance to empower is an attempt to give some value to resolve. The end of Josh post: “ If this design does not pan out, we are likely to revert to Pillars I Might/Resolve.” Suggest to me they they are set on ditching strenght, no matter what.

It’s not that I don’t like randomness - but system which asks you to choose between reliable advantage and unreliable advantage is not great. Lower damage, accuracy, health or speed is something you can plan for. An action getting randomly “depowered” is not - it isn’t playing with chances, like rest of the dice rolls - it’s getting boosted, screwed without much control or planning on your side. As Madscientist said: having a “Wild” character is not a bad thing. However, as one of main attributes I just don’t feel it fits the overall design.

That said XCOM2: War of the Chosen photo booth is a treasure.

Uhh... and I though we went past the argument of “but PoE1 worked differently” and strength/resolve will stay. Like many others I am not a fan of the proposed system, though to be honest, I have trouble visualising it. If I understand it well, resolve gives a chance to empower/deposed random ability during a fight - which sucks, really really hard. How does this “chance work”? Other abilities give tangible, reliable benefits. This seems like a slot machine - resolve seems like “luck”, which I was never fond of. Get lucky to empower an ability, get lucky so an ability you want to empower will be a one you will have a use for in the current encounter. EDIT: reread Josh’s post. It gives a chance to empower ability you decide to use. I just don’t like it, because it is not something you can plan for. When you get bonus chance to crit, it is a constant chance with every attack. Abilities are used when they are needed. I don’t think it would be awful, just something I would keep at 10 to have reliable constant success and invest into other attributes - at least gameplay wise. If they are simply going to revert to might, resolve will need something and random empower is better than nothing - It’s Mighty Number 9 of attributes.

Ya, original idea was to allow players to multiclass their companions however they choose. It changed however, once multiclassing system got modified to D&D2 style: “JS: What we are currently supporting—and this might change—is that when you get a character in your party you will have the option of taking them as — it depends on the character. There will be three options depending on the character. If you get Edér it'll say: "Hey, do you want to be a Fighter, a Rogue or a Swashbuckler?" There are other characters, like Aloth, where it will be a Wizard or a Wizard mixed with another class(that we'll define), or a third option which is a Wizard mixed with yet another class. That's what we're currently supporting. Depending on how testing of that goes we may open that up to support more than that. It just turned out to be more technically complicated, in terms of UI and progression, than we had expected. But, yeah, the currently plan is that every companion that you get will have those three options and you specify it right there, and then they advance as that class or combination of classes.”

It's beta. Nothing we play is finished or representative of the final product.

Stuff is wrapping up: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/967567586035560448 "It is still me, your pal Pallegina... the paladin." Seriously? lol

I am on the stage: “I don’t have enough info, to know how I feel about it”. I don’t feel it needs more to fulfill its intended role. As it turns out different positioning gives you various advantages, disadvantages, different cannons have different strenght and weaknesses. I made a playthrough with the knowledge from the last stream and I found ship combat satisfying, however, it was based on a assumption that my decisions mean something, without much feedback from a game. I can imagine, how a more varied mix of cannons and ships could lead to a more interesting gameplay, but for now, we haven’t seen it in game. What I would like the most to see is better feedback during combat: 1) how is damage calculated (not chance to hit, but chance to hit crew, hull, sails - is it %33 for each? Depends on cannon?). 2) How do special events happen? What is a chance of them occurring? 3) most importantly: what are your ship stats and how they get affected by your positioning/movement - your defence difference between bow/stern and port/starboard side, how much defence you gain by doing a move. 4) explain dice roll, which decided who starts the round ingame. Have it visible (with chances to win) will be more satisfying and clear than starting round 1st or 2nd without any explanation. Hell, I don’t know how it’s calculated, but you could even make it an actual dice roll to fit the PnP feel (who rolls more, bonus captain level gives you extra points). Most important of all, two major feature don’t really work right now - jibe is simply a win manouver allowing you to bombard your enemy without a break, and not having to risk “raking hit” by facing enemy with bow/stern. And full sail doesn’t work - it doesn’t give you movement nor defence, which seem like a primary source of dodging enemy fire. This is a real obstacle in testing the system.

They could replace it with another mechanic. As long as there will be a fresh idea to focus on, they should be fine. Sure, some folks that really liked ships might be vocally disappointed and accuse game of getting “dumbed down” or somethin’, but that will happen no matter what.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qAnIOCIBFR4