Boeroer

If you'd gain a passive via trinket you wouldn't need to put a point into it. It would work as soon as you switch to that trinket. So no raillroading problem. Also it's no problem to put some additional (like Holy Meditation and whatnot) spells to that trinket. You trinket examples are good. But as you said the downside is that you'd never be able to combine Inspiring with Aggrandizing Radiance. Most likely you wouldn't even cast two of them in one encounter since it would be the same spell (level) basically. So in terms of "power" this would be one of the weaker solutions. As MaxQuest said: another approach would be to actually add those things as "real" passives - but then what you said becomes true: would take away even more points from spell selection. So I'm for C or D at the Moment. Leaning a bit to D because C's implementation sounds a bit fiddly and not so trivial while D is just adding some new spells per Copy&Paste and altering them.

So I'm not actually sure if you understand what I mean. Solution D would not add those spells as additional casts but like Grimoires: as bonus spells which you "can" cast - but it costs a spell use like any other spell. So... what do you mean with too many casts? It's 2 casts per PL as always with priests. You wouldn't get more casts out of your priest but would have to choose between upgraded Interdiction/Radiance and the other spells of that PL. Wasn't the whole point of trinkets to add more spell choice? But as I said: if the passive version is preferred that's also fine. Is more like PoE. But it doesn't help with the "spell railroading" that we wanted to remove with trinkets in the first place. Just saying...

Ok, nice. But is this preferable to Solution D where you actually get the same - but more spell variety? So basically: C --> one cast max of Holy Radiance per encounter; upgrades with passives, competes with nothing two casts max per encounter of Interdiction; upgrades with passives, competes with other PL1 spells D --> one cast of Holy Radiance per encounter; doesn't upgrade, competes with nothing two casts of Interdiction; competes with other PL 1 spells two casts of Inspiring Radiance; competes with other PL 2 spells two casts of Empowered Interdiction; competes with other PL 3 and so on If C is y'alls' preferred method than I'm totally fine with it. Just want to make sure everybody understood what Solution D means.

Solution D is also not bad: you'll have way more spells at your disposal. So you can choose to only cast Interdiction (PL1) but also Painful Interdiction (PL5). With unlocking passives you'd only have that one Interdiction spell to cast (max twice per enc.). I made this quick draft to illustrate: ----------------------------------------------- Name: Building on Solid Foundations Appearance: journal Description: This essay refers to the well known book „Daily Affirmations of Focus and Efficiency“ that is very popular among followers of Abydon. It describes certain excercises and techniques that allow priests to improve and refine some of their basic abilites. Contained spells Interdiction Inspiring Radiance (Holy Radiance +10 ACC AoE buff) Empowered Interdiction (Interdiction +10 ACC bonus) Aggrandizing Radiance (Inspiring Radiance with +2 to all caster‘s stats) Painful Interdiction (Empowered Interdiction +weaken) Brilliant Radiance (Aggrandizing +burn damage) Intimidating Interdiction (Painful Interdiction +frighten) Reviving Radiance (Brilliant Radiance +revive like Revive the Fallen, but AoE) Anathema (Intimidating Interdiction +disoriented) ------------------------------------------------

Now a question regarding a special priestly trinket (which I currently write): We talked about how it would be cool to have Inspiring Radiance/Aggrandizing Radiance/Brilliant Radiance as well as Painful Interdiction and Empowered (it's the PoE name!) Interdiction back. My question now: how do we want to do that (mechanically)? In PoE they were passive talents that upgraded your Holy Radiance and Interdiction abilites. So you could upgrade Holy Radiance with Inspiring Radiance (+10 ACC AoE buff) AND Aggrandizing Radiance (caster stat buff) AND Brilliant Radiance (damage buff) for example. Solution A: If I would simply add Inspiring Radiance etc. as additional spells that would not allow to combine those effects as in PoE. You could either cast Inspiring Radiance OR Aggrandizing Radiance at one time. You couldn't have both effects in one spell cast. But it would be the simplest solution. Solution B: I could add those abilities as passives to the trinket, but then you would get them ALL as soon as you equip it - which also doesn't feel right. Solution C : I don't know if that's actually possible, but maybe the best way would be to unlock those passives that upgrade Holy Radiance and Interdiction at certain Power Levels. So for example get the passive "Inspiring Radiance" as soon as you reach PL2, get Aggrandizing Radiance at PL 3 and Brilliant at PL 4 and so on. Is that even possible to mod? Can you help me? @Phenomenum, @MaxQuest? I need to know what's actually possible before I waste a lot of time... Edit: just realized Solution D could be a thing: Give spells at certain Power Levels that just do the same as the spell at lower PLs plus a new upgrade. So for example: Interdiction Inspiring Radiance (like Holy Radiance but adds a +10 ACC AoE buff) Empowered Interdiction (like Interdiction but has +10 ACC) Aggrandizing Radiance (like Inspiring Radiance but adds +2 to all stats for the Priest) Painful Interdiction (like Empowered Interdiction but adds Weakening) Brilliant Radiance (like Aggrandizing Radiance but adds burn damage) Wouldn't that be the easiest/best solution?

I think you should consult Jeff Goldblum on this...

Oh and by the way I will be on vacation again from Fryday till Monday. Just if you wonder where that annoying Theorizer is.

Nothing yet. I just asked if that's a problem for you guys or not. One solution could be that Backstab only works on the initial target. On the other hand we already have the 2m-rule which prevents too much AoE cheese. And you told me that blunderbusses only trigger Backstab once (not 4 times). So now I lean to "All cool - sorry for interrupting"?

Vanishing Strike gives you an invisibility that doesn't break when you attack. So every attack roll will get Backstab bonus. That means an AoE weapon will produce lots of Backstabs. Old Backstab: not a huge problem because AoE hits have very low base damage. Old Backstab uses base damage (+100%). New Backstab adds flat damage (20 raw) and is not based on weapon base damage. Now if you do 10 AoE hits they all will add 20+ raw damage. No matter how low their base damage is. And you can repeat that as long as Vanishing Strike is active.

That's why I ask you after theorizing.

No idea. We didn't even agree on the actual enchantment yet. I opted for this addition to the patch because you wrote this thread.

The first release is on a day or two. Butthat won't contain this helm + enchantment.

Because Assassinate is based on weapons' base damage and flat dmg Backstab is not. So 10 low damage hits produce ten times the backstab damage than one single high damage hit would. Is that the wanted behavior? As I said: I guess this is only a problem with Vanishing Strikes so no big deal. Just saying. That's good to know. Still valid for AoE weapons though. And why should I stop theorizing? Theorizing is good. It's much faster than testing and I don't need a computer for that. It helps to foresee eventual problems. If you can immediately bust the apparent problem: even better.

No worries! By the way I played a little more with a Berserker/Ancient (I mean Berserker/Fury would be cooler just by name - but the loss of healing is bad) but I totally skipped shifting and instead opted for Whispers of the Endless Paths. The combo of the huge and long-lasting Plague of Insects etc. and AoE-Taste of the Hunt (superstrong) + Blood Thirst, once the killing kicks in it's just *swoosh-swoosh-swoosh* - it's awesomest.

I'm fine with that.

@Crimson Panoply helm: Immunity to MIG afflictions sounds solid. I wouldn't even involve crits. It's a late game item and I would be fine with a blanker MIG immunity. I don't know if this would even prevent incoming MIG afflictions from canceling "Strong" from the Panoply' Frenzy. That would be neat. Also adding MIG affl. immunity will be very easy. The other suggestion of upgrading MIG inspirations by one tier is also not bad. It could simply be copied from the SSS axe. I wonder if both items in tandem would upgrade "Strong" to "Energized"? Or just suppress each other sorts of?

I just came across a little OP-ness in spe: If you use Vanshing Strike and the "new" Backstab with the flar 20 raw damage and then either use a multiprojectile weapon (blunderbuss, Frostseeker etc.) or an AoE weapon (Rod, Mortar...) you will do Backstabs with EVERY hit roll under 2m range. Since thge base damage doesn't matter this means that the 4 projectiles of blunderbusses will deal 4*20*PL-bonus*MIG-bonus extra damage. So at PL10 with 20 MIG you would do ~160 extra raw damage with a blunderbuss while a dagger or great sword would do ~40 extra. Problem? This is only with Vanishing Strikes but stil...

We are currently in the talks about adding an enchantment to that helm in the upcoming Community Patch (post v. 1.0). So if you don't want to mod yourself you simply have to wait a bit.

Wait until the Council of Vienne...

We should ask @Harpagornis. Afaik he's the modder.

Yes, but the OP portion that breaks the game comes from Brilliant, not SoT. On it's own Brilliant is already OP (for casters that is). If you combine it with SoT (and then Barring Death's Door) it becomes ridiculously OP. I personally would totally nerf Brilliant to +5 INT and +3 PL instead of resource regeneration - and then make it more accessible. Obsidian's approach was to nerf the tick rate a bit and make it less accessible. Don't agree with that. Making an OP thing less accessible isn't a good way to deal with its OP-ness. If we hadn't today's Brilliant we could also easily rebuff SoT back to 20 secs as it used to be in the good old days.

Oops, thanks for clarifying. I recently compared the new with the old Backstab (because of lash mechanics) and it may be that 25 was the average heavy weapon base gamage I estimated - and then messed that up afterwards in my head.

I'm all ears for alternatives. On kill is indeed rather superfluous most of times... Keeping the name would be fine. Lots of brain grease went into it.

In 2 days if i'm not mistaken. Or 1? Something like that. I guess we should summon and ask @Phenomenum who will put it online. It will not include trinkets for Priests and Druids yet (still in the making - will come with a later version) - but I guess that's no your current concern anyway.

Very nice talk.