Elric Galad

I would be curious about this new Heart Seaker ranger ability, used with Driving Flight.

I think the easiest way would be to introduce "Veteran Levels" which wouldn't change PL. You may keep gaining +3Acc / +3 All Def / + HP / +Skill. Nothing more. Too complicated to balance otherwise and it would still be a bit rewarding. Alternatevely they can add a God Challenge that decrease XP gain.

What would you think of an Instrument of Boundless Rage + Corpse Eater build ?

A pure barbarian can essentially becomes a ranged fast caster at lvl 19 with driving roar. Not convenient till there but at least you'd feel optimal at some point.

Anyway, I'm complaining but to be fair I don't really care. If the ability isn't strong enough it might be buffed. If I don't like how it works, I can simply avoid it. Ranger has a lot of nice low level goodies such as this wonderful disenchanting shot (uncle Keldorn would be proud). Ranger needed a couple more Tier 8 & 9 and that what the patch gave them. So that's perfect I am quite happy.

The great return of the Drizzt trope has already been celebrated with a parade of whirling striking dervish with dual sabers. I guess some Riptide brought them to PoE.

I would have preferred if Hunter's Claw worked on any Hit on the initial target and that using the ability caused on another race would reset the counter. Resting would not cause reset. To counterbalance this, the Bond Cost should be raised to something like 4 Bonds. It would still be suboptimal to use it for one single battle but still usable against boss.

The real question is : what happens when you hit 2 different races with initial shot ?

Hunter's Claw is great concept and flavour. It's really hard to figure how strong it is in game, especially because the word "race" is vague. +20 Acc (never enough Acc) and +20 defense passive is extremely strong even if it requires a setup. How complicated it is to set it up in real condition is hard to figure but I suspect that the initial effect is too low.

Do you have to recast bonded fury if your pet gets killed ? Probably yes. ​I'm not sure Ghost Heart gets the most benefit from Bonded Fury. I think Ghost Heart are awesome to "spam" your 1-bond cheap pet which is a bit contradictory with spending 3 bonds on a pet buff. Furthermore, Ghost Heart needs even more Bond. ​And I think I would prefer to save as much bond as I can for Ranger high Tier abilities when going Single Class.

Also it gives Single Class Ranger significantly better pets. Also Ranged Rangers now have an AoE on par with their melee counterpart. I really like that Single Class Rangers can easily switch between AoE (Whirling Strikes / Heart Seeker) and Single Target (Accurate Wounding Shot / Twin Shot) DPS with ease. ​It gives them a very distinct advantage from Rogues who are king of Single Target DPS but can't switch to AoE easily.

Hunter's Claw - IV Hunter's Fang - VI Beast's Claw - VI Bonded Fury - VIII Heart Seeker - IX OK, so Single Class Ranger just moved from C+ to B- tier (okayish to include in a party). Being the only class to be able to inflict enfeeble conveniently is a quite nice unique trait, and their pet is significantly stronger now. However, even with these new very decent abilities, I still think that the amount of ressources is still very limited for single class martial. Single Class Resssource Pool is probably the only critical remaining issue for sufficient balance between classes and multiclasses (along with a couple of mehish subclasses).

It is not 100% clear if "race" means Beasts / Primordials / Spirits / Vessels / Wilders / Kiths, even if it would be the most consistent with game mechanics. I would be curious about the Tiers of these new abilities.

Is it also reduced by Resolve ? It would give a good reason to play a high charisma resolve paladin.

Yup but I think there shall be nuking scrolls and healing scrolls anyway. This type of ability is basic, so it does not matter if it is 100% identical to the ability version. It is however much more annoying for very unique spells such as Avenging Storm. By the way, it's Maelstorm spell which replicated the scroll, not the other way around ;-)

Mig is not very useful for Rogue indeed, as it was in PoE1. Dex is usually better because action speed modifier are more rare. Per is also better because you don't want to miss. Casters have limited spells and less damage modifiers, so Mig helps them more.

Yeah I was talking purely about nuking power. That's a bit like complaining that Rogue are top single target DPS. It is expected that Wiz should be the best nuker. Even fury has a bit of support to counterbalance.

I things were logical it should either have a fixed duration or increased duration/damages by Int.

(sorry for long post) Endgame Single Class basically get 3 different advantages over Multi ones : - Tier 8 / Tier 9 abilities. - 2-3 PL, which are very significant for some classes and abilities - Additional ressources for their class I think all these advantages shall be taken into account to evaluate the power of Single Class, especially compared with Multi Class. Methodology : I'm rating A, B, C for Tier 8 / Tier 9 / Ressources Gain / Gain from additional PL, and give a global grade. Please take into account that these grades could be subjective and that I will probably fail to take some stuff into account. Tier 8 / Tier 9 : A : Gamechanging, B : Solid, C : Mediocre Ressources : when going Single Class, you miss the huge advantage of a second pool of ressources. Furthermore, your Top Tier abilities often require a ton of this poor single ressource pool. It is a huge concern for me, so I gave following grades : A : OK, B : Mediocre, C : Lacking Basically, I think that casters are A because they have enough cast, and most martial are C because they only get a mediocre +2 ressources compared to the benefit of a secondary pool. Cipher and chanters are C because they don’t really get more ressource by staying Single Class. Impact of 2-3 PL : A : Very Important, B : Significant, C : Barely Nice Baiscally, all casters including Ciphers and Chanters are « A » while martial are between « C » and « B » depending on their activated abilities and passive bonus from PL. This tends to counter balance ressource pool. Overall Grade : A : Some of the best for its Purpose B : Solid for any party, but won't shine as much as a A C : Lacking/Gimmicky Grades : Wizard ; Tier 8 : B Tier 9 : A Ressources : A PL : A Overall : A Priest : Tier 8 : A Tier 9 : B Ressources : A PL : A Overall : A Druid : Tier 8 : B Tier 9 : B. Solid but a bit less than Wiz. Ressources : A PL : A Overall : A-, because casters make good use of new spell slots and PL, but a bit overshadowed by Wiz. Still, Wiz can’t heal/rez/support, so each class has its perks. Rogue : Tier 8 : B Tier 9 : C. Probably B if Vanishing strikes invisibility isn't cancel by attacking. (But still probably cancelled by DoT which doesn't make sense by the way) Ressources : C. The flask is soon going to be empty. PL : B (sneak attack and strikes multiplicative bonus damages are nice for single target DPS purpose) Overall : B-. Ressource pool is the main problem IMHO. Fighter : Tier 8 : B (Clear Out upgrades are nice, Inspired Discipline is OK) Tier 9 : B (nothing that good, a bit everything not that bad) Ressources : C PL : C Overall : B- Monk : Tier 8 : B Tier 9 : A Ressources : B (sufficient because of Wounds, but not much upgraded compared to Single Class) PL : B (fists benefit from it, and lots of ability too) Overall : A- (- mostly because Monk Multis are so tempting) Barbarian : Tier 8 : C (HoF too costly) Tier 9 : A Ressources : B. Ressources on Kill + cheap shout makes barbarian Single feels less the lack of ressource. PL : B (because PL applies to carnage, sshouts ?) Overall : B+ Paladin : Tier 8 : C (because nothing seemsZeal efficient, so you just keep spamming shared flame) Tier 9 : B (Nothing great, but some okay stuff) Ressources : C. Lots of abilities, few ressources. But A if using +2 Ressources on Downed ally with summons. It requires party build. PL : B (lots of activated abilities canbenefit from it) Overall : B-, unless the Summons trick is used. Then B+/A-. Dependancy on a single trick is harsh, but well. Ranger : Tier 8 : B. The Single Target DPS increase from Twin Shots is not good and too short-lived compared to what a Scout Multiclass can bring. The only selling point is that a ranger may combine Single Target DPS with AoE on demand thanks whirling strikes. Even a Ranged Ranger should pick Whirling Strikes to use for some fights. Tier 9 : C (Only Stunning Shot is good for Tier 9.) Ressources : C PL : C (does not even buff pet) Overall : C+/B-. Worst Single Class IMHO. Mostly because Scout does his job better. Cipher : Tier 8 : B Tier 9 : A Shared Nightmare is #1 reason to go Single Class IMHO Ressources : B. Basically every Martial Multiclassed with Cipher is usually going to generate more focus than you. But you get reaping knives. PL : A Overall : A- Chanter : Tier 8 : B* Tier 9 : B Ressources : C. Basically not improved by going Single Class. PL : A Overall : B. Solid, but nothing really gamechanging. *But then, there is this one scimitar… that could raise the overall grade to B+/A-... My (own very personal) Conclusions : I really believe that Single Class have a ressource problem more than an ability problem (even if a couple of abilities/classes might be a bit lacking). Martial Multi get 18 ressources. Martial Single Class get 11 and actually requires more for their abilities. This is a such Huge Gap, even if I get why Multis should indeed get more ressource. I think that a good way to improve Single Class would be to give them a bit more ressource at start or latter (+1/+2 ?). And/Or to give them a Tier 8 / Tier 9 ability that increase ressource or enable some regeneration. Paladin one (Divine Retribution) and Barbarian one (Blood Surge) are good. Ranger and Rogue lack it entirely. Why not 15% Guile Chance on Crit ? 10% Bond Chance on Pet Hit ? Fighter one (toughened fury) is complicated to use (unless you're an "undying titan"), has a low occurence and seems even a bit antisynergetic. Chances on Hit (even if lower) would feel better. Monks don't need that much. Maybe Chanter could get something too. Maybe a song that generate phrase faster but does nothing on its own ? (might be OP on a Troubadour)

I would argue that the purpose of this topic should be to compare Multi vs Single more than classes between them, and evaluate what the additional PL bring to the class. IMHO the game is already pretty well balanced for Multi Class, each one having its own goodies on Tier I - 7. Which Ranger Ability do you value so high on Tier 9 ? Stunning Shots ? Even with the Synergy with Ranger's high Accuracy, I admit I don't see it that "Gamechanging". I might even consider Whirling Strike to be more "Gamechanging", given that it seems a better Heart of Fury.

I think there should be a topic dedicated to this evaluation. You should make one. I also think that the question of ressources (e.g. Discipline) for Single Class might also be evaluated by a third grade (or qualitative comment) per class. And also a global grade for the whole Single Class. For example : Wizard : T8 : 8 T9 : 10 Ressources : Sufficient Global Grade : 9,5

Are you 100% sure you'll never have to cast spells before Ascension ? -1PL isn't so bad, especially considering Ascendant starts with more focus and generates it faster. I would have kept Whispers of Treason as a backup for such cases (it won't delay Ascension that much).

Maybe they could add some "prestige levels" with new common features for all classes ? The Multiclass/Single Class balance is already complicated, I'm not sure letting Single Class (Edit : oups, I meant Multiclass) access to Tier VIII won't throw the fragile equilibrium from the window.

Well Druids can heal/rez party and to a lesser extent buff (AoE Robust is solid). I won't deny that they could be buffed a bit, but I won't say that they are in direct competition with wizard (except Fury druid).

I started this thread because everybody claimed Resolve was a dump stat while it seemed to have nice effects. Truth is, Resolve is umpopular, but not underpowered, and this for 2 reasons : - People prefer attack over defense. - Resolve has increasing returns instead of diminushing ones, which makes it easy to dump and not very interesting to buff just a little. If you want just a bit of defenses, Con >> Res. Now I'm pretty happy to see a build using very high Resolve.