Jediphile

Yeah... half twi'lek, half zeltron female...

Die, gungans, die! I may be LS, but I make a special exception for gungans (and perhaps ewoks)... I'm a nice guy otherwise. Honestly! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like ewoks Let them make fish-soup of gungans <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, I like ewoks too... Preferably roasted

Yes, that's pretty much my take as well. Still, I tend to play anything with a powerful story that grabs my attention, no matter what type of game it is. I played both Star Trek: Armada 1 and 2 for that reason alone. Same with Diablo 1 + 2 - loved the dark story, but didn't like the game system so much, so once I had seen all the movies, me interested plummetted. Same thing with Starcraft btw - play through to see how story turns out, then drop it completely.

Actually, I think that was specific to the Exile, who was after all unique in his ability to create powerful force bonds with others. I don't think the bond between Revan and Bastila was the same, especially since Revan basically uses it to redeem Bastila after she has fallen to the dark side... He was definitely her master in the DS ending of K1. But I digress... Besides, it wasn't your point anyway, so just ignore me - I just like splitting hairs, I guess...

hmmmm, well that does look like it will be quite an undertaking. but, since it focuses entirely on minor characters, it would still leave plenty of room for movies focusing on Vader. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, what would be the point? I mean, of course the tv series is going to focus on minor characters, since we already know that there is not going to be much (or indeed any) character development for Vader until Ep. IV. But that doesn't mean he can turn up ominously and slash a few jedi or other folk, then disappear back into the shadows. Besides, if there is to be a tv-show in that era, then I'd prefer to have no movies set there, since they would likely clash with each other. And what would see Vader do anyway? As I just pointed out, there is no character development for him, so it would be pretty boring... I'd have liked to see him hunt down a few more jedi in Ep. III, but it doesn't seem to have the material to build an entire movie over, let alone several. If there are to be more movies (which I doubt), I'd prefer to see Luke as a jedi master. I think Hamill has the age for too, btw. Lucas originally planned nine movies, but I really doubt we'll ever see Episodes VII, VIII, and IX, since the EU has covered all the areas it would likely take place in by now. I'd actually like a movie version of the "Dark Empire" comic. But it'll never happen, so it doesn't matter...

Actually the tv series seems to be a virtual certainty, if we are to trust Wookieepedia, which I do. And it's apparently set right in the time of the jedi purge between episodes III and IV. So we might see Vader again on tv, I guess.

Well, you can't walk there, and a starship is a starship is a starship... My point was that Gandalf is an assistant. He is never a primal protagonist. He is never the central character of the story. He can be as powerful as he wants to - he's still not the hero of the story, Frodo is. Or if Frodo isn't, then it's Aragorn. It's certainly not Gandalf. That actually underscores the other point, too - Revan could take the Gandalf role (Exile as Aragorn?), while the new pc is in the position of Frodo/Sam. Yes, but the point is still that it was Frodo and Sam who had to go and destroy the ring, not Gandalf or Aragorn or any of the others. If they had not taken that journey, then it wouldn't have mattered what the more powerful characters did - "Even the smallest person can change the course of history..."

A bit of general info on the game, including the planets.

Die, gungans, die! I may be LS, but I make a special exception for gungans (and perhaps ewoks)... I'm a nice guy otherwise. Honestly!

So you reduce the protogonist to the role of messenger boy. If the new PC isnt as strong, then they really don't have a chance of getting to Sith Space anyway. It's very anticlimactic when someone else saves the day. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Revan got to Sith space alone. Someone else can do it with friends. And being the one who facilitates victory does mean that you're a messenger boy. Would you call Gandalf a messenger boy? He was scarcely the one who decided things with his choices. But he was important for where he helped at the right moment. Besides, you need look no further than Frodo or Bilbo to see that you don't have to be particularly powerful to be the deciding factor in a great war - Aragorn and Gandalf and Faramir and hosts of others were far more powerful than Frodo ever was, yet it was still Frodo who decided between victory or defeat... or maybe Sam, you could argue, but then the same goes for him.

But even if that is the case you still need a protagonist that is their equal or better.If they are not going to be in the game in that sense. Well you havnt really lost anything by killing them and you cleared up a mess of problems. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I just don't see why that is necessary. To me the case is more that Revan and Exile *have* to be more powerful than your main pc. If not, then why does the main pc need to find them? My presumption would be that the new pc needs to find what became of Revan and Exile because only they have the power to save the republic. If the new pc is just as strong, then why would he need to?

Exactly what I have in mind.

Even KotOR2 allows for Revan to be both DS and female despite LA declaring Revan male LS in canon... What does that have to do with the Mandalorian Wars? I think you mistake the Mandalorian Wars with the Great Sith War, which took place some 30+ years before - Exar Kun was long since "dead" by the Mandalorian Wars, and Nomi would be pretty old. Besides, LA probably wouldn't allow their use - they didn't in KotOR1 after all, which is why Bastila replaced Vima as the female jedi with a bond to Revan...

Because you then get to start over without anyone elses baggage. If Revan or the Exile are a part of the story , then it's very difficult to stop them overshadowing the current protagonist, especially if said protagonist is a just a regular guy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why is an existing story a problem to overcome? I know the Trek-people thought so too, but I don't see why. On the contrary, there are lots of shows and stories where the writers realise that rich background is a wonderful tapestry. Established history is only a problem if you insist on seeing it as such. Sure, you have abide by the established story, but you can get as much inspiration from that (if not more) as you writing from a completely blank slate. I would say that any claim to the contrary is just lazy or misunderstood writing - not often do we see writers complaining over this then doing completely original works... Why must the power levels rise for each game? There is nothing wrong with dropping the standard a little, as far as I'm concerned - every pc we play in these games does not have to a jedi-killing-machine or a force god. As long as the narrative is compelling and deep, I really couldn't care less about all the powergaming.

Any game based on the Mandlorian Wars has the rather severe problem that the evolving plot is fixed, since we already know how it all turns out, and even how many of the battels will go. Therefore I think an RPG becomes pointless, because you cannot make any genuine choices in the game, unless options are included that deviates from what is established, and which will therefore immediately be marked as "outside canon". Therefore a Battlefront-type game or RTS seems best, since the purpose will then mostly be how you reach your goals, rather than what you want them to be. Heck, if you do it Starcraft style, you can even have "heroes" like Revan and Malak on the playing field - powerful character that must survive every scenario. As for Battlefront, I personally think that the reason it was such a big seller was not that it was a strategic, but more because we were finally allowed to killed Ewoks...

What's the point of building to a great climax over the course of an entire game (KotOR2) if you're just going to abandon the story?!?

The problem with that is how you'll establish that when even becoming a jedi padawan is the result of hard training and arduous study over years and years. In K1 they circumvented it by having the player be Revan, who knew it by heart and so seemed to grasp it in weeks. They did a similar thing in K2, because the Exile obviously already had all the training and study, but had merely "lost" his connection to the force. How can you do the same for a new character without suggesting that he is more powerful than Revan, who is after all considered the greatest jedi of his time. Even Luke had to spend a lot of time in training under Yoda before he had even the pitiful abilities he used in his fight against Vader on Bespin. And he wasn't even a newcomer to the Force, having been taught the basics by Obi-Wan three years before. Besides, he too was one - if not the - strongest jedi of his age.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (though some might say that we have long since passed that point...), I'll just say again that I'll be opposed to and rather annoyed by playing yet another amnesic jedi or any other form of jedi who somehow lost his power... There we agree. The way KotOR2 ended there is no doubt. We need closure to Revan's story. We need closure to Exile's story. Whatever else happens in KotOR3, the fates of those characters *must* be dealt with (and not "dealt with" in the sense of killing them off during the opening text crawl). EDIT: Edited a typo in the parentheses that gave the opposite of what I meant, which led to confusion in the next post. My apologies.

Fair enough. In that case I vote for Luke Skywalker. You hate Luke Skywalker, why? He's better than Revan IMO. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, Luke did start out as a bit of an annoying brat. However, I really like the character he has turned into by the end of RotJ, and I positively love how he is portrayed in the Dark Empire comic books - very dark and complex... And incredibly powerful - one wave with the hand and the AT-AT drops like a bucket of bolts

I wonder if this is part of Team Gizka's efforts given that it seems to be cut content...

Oh please can I play a whiney 8 year old " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :D

an RPG (trilogy) based on the Great Hyperspace War (which is when ancient Sith and humans first meet) would be lots of fun, IMO. you could also do one based around the life and exploits of Freedon Nadd. but, if they do go back in the timeline, I think I would like to see the Mandalorian Wars fleshed out more (heck, maybe I could even play as a Mandalorian!). Other than the Mandalorian Wars, I would like to see a trilogy based on the Sith War (which is Exar Kun/Nomi Sunrider's time). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, I think he's talking about the time when the jedi cast out those who followed the dark side - the dark jedi - who eventually found their way to Korriban and the sith species and then founded the sith empire, which would be after the Second Great Schism around 3000 years before the KotOR era and 7000 years before the movie era. EDIT: KotOR1 was supposed to be have stronger connections to some of the characters of the Sith War. Bastila was originally the name of the Cathar (I'm glad they changed it - it's pretty unoriginal to call a cat-person BASTila), and the female jedi with battle meditation was to have been Vima Sunrider, who would presumably have learned battle meditation from her mother, Nomi.

It's not about how an item looks, but what it does. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Kills people, does it not? :D

I do understand why some people are attracted to playing DS. In RL we're constantly lectured to by people who seem to have nothing better to do that moralize, so when we enter escapist territory, it's nice to have the freedom to let go of the restraints and behave like a pig and generally be as evil and malicious as you can get away with. However, I've never been able to enjoy it myself. I've played the DS sides of both K1 and K2, but I really didn't enjoy it all that much - it was mostly the lure of seeing the alternate endings that attracted me to it, and once I'd seem them, I never went back.

Revan is tough, no doubt. But Luke is one of the most powerful jedi ever. If we're talking Master Skywalker, then he'd wipe the floor with Revan any day... but then he probably would with just about anyone.