Jediphile

Which is why PCs rule over consoles. Mods! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wouldn't the pc rule anyway? :D :ph34r:

Did some excellent work on The Next Generation as well - all the Worf/Klingon saga episodes originated from him, which means that the popularity of the Klingons is really his hard work and excellent writing. He was even known as "the Klingon guy" among the writers for a while, though he never had an particular interest in the klingons as such - he just wanted to write good stuff... and did. Those are among the best Trek episodes ever.

Even though it's quite apparent that the entire Sith Army knew about HK droid models. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, two sith soldiers mentioned it. That doesn't mean the entire sith army does.

I think Nihilus was just stuck on Malachor after the Mass Shadow Generator was activated. He was a jedi on a ship that was pulled down, only instead of actually dying, he somehow responded to the Exile's rejection of the force at the same time, and that is how he learned the ability from the Exile, as the masters later point out. The comment about his imprisonment is this: "The Ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V.The Sith fleet attacking Telos appears to be composed of many damaged warships... the wreckage of a great battle."

I'd agree that the "last and first" master is definitely Kreia. She says so herself, and she knows to much about Revan for it to be otherwise, as I see it. And Disciple does confirm the idea that Revan returned to his first master to learn how to leave the order. All that fits so well together that I'll accept is as true. As for Kae, the closest we get is that comment about Revan having been trained by Kae as a padawan. At no point does Disciple mention any named master that preceded Kae. The master he can't remember clearly came after Kae. So no, it's no proof that Kae is Kreia. It's still just circumstantial evidence that suggests it at best.

It's a question of prioritization, not whether something exists or not. Gamism refers to competitiveness. Player vs. player, players vs. GM, or (most often in PnP RPGs, D&D included) players vs. GM-created-opposition. Gamism is about encountering problems, and figuring out a way to solve them, and most likely getting some sort of reward out of it (or getting a "penalty" if you don't). There's alot more that can go to it, but that's the basic idea. A gamist RPG is an RPG that prioritizes this above other needs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One of the first gaming concepts I ever read in any RPG was that it was not a competition between the GM and the players or among the players themselves. It was right first in the book and a fundamental principle in the game. That was in the red D&D box... So by your own definition, even D&D is not a "gamist RPG". RPGs are not about killing the monsters and overcoming the opposition. That is also just secondary. It's perfectly legitimate to avoid the opposition, make an agreement with them, join them if possible, etc. Though it often turns out differently, it is a fairly important principle that you don't have to solve things in the way the GM thought you would. If that were the case, there would be no need for GM, and you might as well play a CRPG, board game or similar where all the goals and how they must be reached are predetermined, and you just have to figure out how and what is "the correct way" to do it. That is exactly what gamist RPGs are about, though they certainly can be simpler or more complex in rules. That certainly doesn't mean that that is everything a gamist RPG can be about; it is simply a question of prioritization. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you like board games better than RPGs, then that's fine. I don't, but it's fair enough - to each his own. However, they are not the same. They are different games. RPGs are, very obviously, about ROLE-PLAYING. All the stats and skills and abilities are all just means by which to promote the role-playing experience. As a gamist RPG, D&D gives the player the option to overcome a problem by making a character that can survive such a fall. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Surviving such a fall is for a superhero RPG, not a game where you have to make believe that you're a mortal of any sort. By that logic you can make up any stupid rule you want in an RPG, and when players and gamemasters then criticise it, you can just say that it's because they want something else than what was written. Well, duh... But you're ignoring that there is a rule that is illogical and is stupid, and you're ignoring the people who use the rules and who say this is a problem. 3e Epic rules has DCs for swimming up a waterfall. Sounds silly to me, so I won't buy or use those rules. That's not the same as pointing out that the cost of making a magical item is lower than it is to create it. For example, in D&D most magical weapons are always swords with bonuses. Why? Clerics and wizards can't use them, and they're the ones who can make them, so why did they? That's basic stupidity for you right there... Sure there shouldn't be magical swords, but I dare say the clerics would have made magical hammers and maces and the wizards magical staffs and daggers before they made swords, so why aren't there more of those?

Well, Palpatine/Sidious apparently used his sith powers to mask his more bestial appearance, and Kreia definitely used her's to manipulate the Disciple's mind. If she can do that, then making others "overlook" her pregnancy seems relatively uncomplicated somehow...

"The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities *some* consider to be... unnatural..." :D

Yes. All so funny. Kae had Brianne for 10 years when she was exiled; meaning she would have fighted with Yusaris and such and knew him that time. If so why does Revan NOT know Yusaris even if meeting him as Padawan? Unless Revan was no longer a padawan ofcourse. And after her exile Kae joined her FORMER padawan into the Mandalorian Wars... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, the quote really just says that Kae trained Revan before she left for the war. It doesn't say that she continuously did so until she left. As for Brianna, remember that Revan was one of the most respected and idolized young jedi of those days - if he had known of her "disgrace", he might have reported it to the council himself. So she probably chose to keep it secret even from him.

"infiltrated" ?!?!? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He invaded and killed them all !!! Maybe that

:D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dissent the ranks... Not a good sign. I sense the green one stirring lazily, something having disturbed its sleep... It looks around in a displeased and slightly indifferent manner to identify the source of the commotion. The point is: "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup..."

The problem with that is that if Revan is DS, then some of them - certainly Jolee, Juhani, Mission, Zaalbar - must be dead, possibly Carth as well. Gruesome! Especially since you just argued for not killing the companions. Still, I like it for a DS option "infiltrated" ?!?!?

It doesn't work with all characters, though. DUH! " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who does it work with? And who doesn't it work with?

Don't just sit there - spam something! :D (Inspired by Dennis Hopper in Waterworld...)

But Carth IMHO would have to be made an important person in that game so I think it would be bad if you select Revan to be DS and the whole "Carth killed your father out of revange" should then be skipped. I don't suppose you would like a storyline and the quest "find Carth Onasi" would take up just a few minutes do you? I mean, finding a republic admiral is no easy task and it would be bad if the game just covers it up with "the Lonna Vash" strategy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The idea is that you would be gunning for Revan for your revenge, not Carth. Yes, Carth may have killed Saul, but he would never have been able to do that without Revan and Bastila, so they are just as much to blame, if not more so. But hey, if you don't like it, then fair enough... I'm not married to the idea or anything... How about the idea of a mandalorian jedi? His DS choice could be to kill Canderous, become the new Mandalore, and then lead them as a mandalorian *and* a jedi!

"My God - it's full of stars..."

Almost time for spam-song, you know...

Yeah... K*ching - where do I collect my cheque? :D

We need spamfighter badly...

No, an Ewok and a Gungan...

Well, I guess the story would be more difficult to build if Revan would be DS in Kotor I (you cannot avenge Carth as he is death). It's just not good to build more plots then one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Carth could be dead, yes, but Darth Revan will be alive and will have been instrumental in Saul Karath's death regardless. I don't see a downside plotwise in this.

Concerning the timetable... from Wookieepedia * 3,963 BBY o The Mandalorian Wars begin. The Jedi Revan and Malak defy the Jedi Council and lead the Republic forces against the invaders. * 3,960 BBY o The Mandalorian Wars end. A Jedi serving Revan as general, later called the Exile, willfully severs all ties to the Force to end the pain caused by the thousands of deaths at the Battle of Malachor V. Revan and Malak disappear. The Exile is called to Coruscant to answer for defying the Jedi Council, and is banished upon the Council learning of the general's willful abandonment of the Force. * 3,959 BBY o Revan and Malak, who have been seduced by the Dark Side, declare war on the Republic. Only the Battle Meditation of Bastila Shan staves off certain defeat. * 3,956 BBY o The Jedi Civil War concludes with the redemption of Revan, the death of Malak, and the destruction of the Star Forge. * 3,955 BBY o Revan disappears into the Unknown Regions to destroy the ancient Sith Empire. * 3,951 BBY o The Exile is discovered aboard the Ebon Hawk, Revan's ship, by Darth Traya, a Sith Lord trying to kill the Force by manipulating the life-threatening echoes caused by the Exile's willing abandonment of it. The Exile reestablishes connection to the Force, then kills Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Sion, who have spent the last five years murdering Jedi, and the Jedi Order is rebuilt by the surviving Jedi. End of the Old Sith Wars. * 3,950 BBY o The Jedi Exile, along with T3-M4, disappears into the Unknown Regions to find Revan.

"As a padawan..." would seem to suggest otherwise... The other quote you refer to is this: Disciple: "Many of the Jedi Council trained Exar Kun, Ulic... Revan and Malak. How could they not see the danger they posed? And if they could not......perhaps there was some essential part of their teachings that was flawed. Something beyond the Jedi Code that they were missing. Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars. Towards the end of his training, he sought out many to learn techniques.It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the order." I make no pretenses about knowing whether that list is in reverse chronological order, but I think the quote I posted before suggests that Kae was the first, both because of the "as a padawan" comment and because it is very clear that she came before that master the Disciple can't remember. I actually don't a clue who might be referred to here... It might be a reference to Kreia having also sought out her old master, whoever that was, to learn how to leave the order... But that is pure conjecture. I'd agree with that, which to me is another clue pointing to Kreia being Kae, since she also had Revan as a padawan, and eventually had him return to her to learn how to leave the order.

I'd go for... 5. Both willingly fallen to the dark side to fight the true sith and now must be made to aid you and possibly redeemed, if the republic is to survive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They are not that important in the grand scheme of things. Not more than Exar Kun or other major figures in the known SW history. The Republic doesn't need them specifically to survive is what I mean. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I don't agree with you there... KotOR2 was all about finding out that Revan had *needed* to go off and fight the true Sith - possibly because nobody else could - and then following in his foodsteps, because he would somehow need the exile's aid. If they are not important, then the entire plot of KotOR2 becomes pointless...

20+ posts Boy was I wrong... :"> The mods are slipping - have they gone AWOL?