Jediphile

naw, it's an interesting idea i guess, but there are many people who want a new playable character, as opposed to exile and/or revan again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The idea also has the problem of KotOR2 ending with the Exile going off to find Revan... Yes, I agree with that. I really think that in the "split party" bit of KotOR2, when the Exile and two companions go to Onderon to settle the royal coup and three other companions go to Freedon Nadd's tomb on Dxun, they should have cut between the two, so that it became more cinematic. Now sure it would work over the course of an entire game, though, or even how to implement it. Yeah, from me too.

Of course not. It had Dennis Hopper in it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, that doesn't make it good per se... nor was it. But still, you can't beat lines like: "Don't just stand there - kill something!" :D

And nudity. From Scarlet Johanssen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about Scartlet Johanssen killing loads of people with buckets of blood in the nude! Disclaimer: I don't think Scarlet Johanssen is sexy. Emmanuelle B

I've been wondering that too, since it does seem to be a reference to Kreia. I don't see how it really can be if Kreia and Kae are two separate people, if we accept that Kreia was Revan's first master. So the way I see it is that there are two possibilities: 1. The master Disciple refers to is someone totally unknown to us - it's not Zhar, Dorak, Kae and/or Kreia, or any other that we've heard of having ever taught Revan. Why Disciple would not remember that is very odd indeed, though. 2. It is Kreia/Kae, only she has somehow "split" herself into two people in Disciple's mind. Kae has history with the jedi order - there's no denying that - so instead of trying to remove her entire existence from the Disciple's mind, she allows the early history of her time to be known to him as that of Master Kae, but leaves him with the impression that the later history was another teacher - Kreia - which she then expels from his mind, so that she can hide her association with Revan for her Kreia identity as well as the dark teachings Revan learned from her, and which the council felt had led Revan to his fall, and which they exiled her for. As you can probably guess, I favor the latter...

Hear, hear - FO3 ftw... :ph34r:

What I want to know is, if we have HK-47 in KotOR1 and HK-50s in KotOR2 (with HK-51s in the cut content), then where the heck is HK-48 and HK-49?!?

Sure. It's right here. I participated heavily in it myself. It's closed now, but referring to it might be enlightening. I think Kreia is Kae, but I would concur with DeathScepter that there is no concrete proof either way. The nay-sayers have not been able to put up an argument against Kreia being Kae that couldn't be questioned, at least not as far as I could tell. Those who do do believe that Kreia is Kae, like myself, have pointed to evidence that supports the theory, but still cannot be called proof. There are a bit too many similarities between Kreia and Kae for me to ignore. Could be coincidence, but as M.r Garak would put it on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - "I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences..." :D

Hey, you forgot to explain R, Q, and P. That might be confusing to new readers (and even to those geezers among us, who forget...)

Gothic 1 was limited to a single prison colony. There was enough space to explore, but the area was definitely very finite. Gothic 2 seems larger, though, but I haven't played it much. I like Gothic for its plots and free-roaming, but I don't like the character building and the combat system... Lots of good ideas, though. I think it's more a question of having something interesting to discover in them. Mercenary II: Damocles (jeez, that was long ago...) was great, but boy was it big and empty... IIRC, one planet had several million of "pyramid" structures on it, only they were all empty except for a select few... Agreed. And there should be few but very different vehicles. For example, some could be pretty fast, but only run safely on real roads (which are all pretty much gone by the time Fallout is set in), while others can be slower off-roaders. A car-wars thing could be good. If they looked a bit at Mad Max 2, the Road Warrior for inspiration, it would be great.

Lots of OT remarks... I see a pale lockdown rising...

Terminator - yes Governator - no, thanks :D

No, you sidestep the point. His training of his wife was hidden, but his marriage was well known. He was not exiled for having a relationship. That's the on point precedent. The aside is he didn't even get exiled for training her behind the Order's collective back after they refused to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Or even for that leading to her falling to the dark side, which he could also have prevented (by killing her in their duel, which he won), and that she then went on to kill other jedi. Those lives are thus on Jolee's conscience in the sense that they could have prevented, if he had killed his wife, when she turned against him.

Her name is Sara Kestelman

He trained her in secret after the council turned down his request to do so. I'll just post the whole thing, so people can see for themselves... Sorry about the length Jolee: "My wife's name was Nayama. She was the Ukatis enforcer who shot me out of the sky, if you remember.No I'm not senile, dammit! Not yet, anyway. Hmmm... well at least I don't think so. At any rate, I'll tell the story the way I want to.Bah. You got ears that work, don't you? I was a smuggler, way way back. I got shot down once over Ukatis. THAT story, yes.My wife had plenty to do with the war. Upon meeting her, I knew right away that she was strong in the Force. That's why she was able to shoot me down.Nayama was a marvel of a woman. Fiery, determined, smart... she dragged me to the capital and foiled three of my attempts to escape prison. Oh, and that body...Well... yes, that. Needless to say I eventually won her over. That was after I kidnapped her upon being broken out of the Ukatis prison, mind you. But uh, that's another story entirely.At any rate, I wanted to train her in the Jedi way. The Council refused my request, naturally. I was still a Padawan at the time.Nayama was intrigued by the idea of becoming a Jedi. She liked the idea of power too much, perhaps, but I certainly didn't see that at the time.I believed in her and trained her in secret. I ignored her willful nature... I loved her too much to see fault in her.And she loved me, too. I know she did. At the time, our love was a shared bliss... better than anything I had known before or since.Exar Kun is what happened. Nayama was inspired by Exar's promises of a new Golden Age. She wanted to join him.She came to me, pleading with me to throw aside what she called the decrepit trappings of the Jedi... to join her in Exar's war.I pleaded with her to reconsider, to think about all that she was throwing away... to think about what she would become.She would have none of it. Finally, in frustration, she attacked me. She drew her lightsaber and attempted to strike me down.It was a scene being repeated everywhere throughout the galaxy. Pupil against master. In my case... it was a long and terrible battle, but I defeated her.No... no. I had her at my mercy, disarmed and defenseless. She looked up at me and she knew... she knew I couldn't do it.Was I? Sometimes I convince myself that I couldn't have done otherwise... that I couldn't have seen that she had truly fallen to the dark side. But, yes, I was a fool.And I let her go. To my shame, she went on to kill many Jedi during the war until she, herself, was slain in the final battle.I grieved for her death, inevitable as it was, even as the Jedi Council put me on trial for my actions once the war was over.I had trained Nayama against their wishes. I had failed to kill her when I had the chance, and she went on to kill others.It was a travesty, of course. I told you that even the Jedi were capable of great injustices, didn't I?But I deserved to be tried. They found me innocent.Even though I... deserved every punishment and more... they let me go. Mitigating circumstances, they said. I deserved compassion, they said.That... that was when the Jedi left me. That was when they failed me.They may have been able to forgive me. I... could never forgive myself."

I mentioned it in a lengthy post before. It's here for anyone who's interested...

The council's decision not to fight in the Mandalorian Wars was not due to being a cloistered order, but rather because they feared what fighting such a war could mean for the order's members. Note that Bastila describes this in K1 and tells Carth that they would have aided in time - Revan just never gave the order the chance, but instead forced the issue and so split the order. Even Kreia knows that the Mandalorians taught the jedi through battle, and Revan used that to corrupt those jedi who had followed him. That is precisely the sort of outcome the order feared.

Now why does that sound strangely familiar... :"> :D

Looking specifically at exploring, do we want FO3 to be a vast, open expanse, that the player must search through? That would be rather different from the fairly small and "representative" areas or "screens" that we know from the predecessors. Not that I mind. It sounds good to me, but it would be a change. It would mean there's a lot of free-roaming through areas that are likely to be devoid of anything but desert. Somehow I like that, but could mean an awful lot of empty territory. How do people feel about that?

not <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course it's true silly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I randomly agree with one of you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Me too :D

And? I'm not sure why that adds any sort of entertaining value to the film even assuming you know all the references. Reminds of the people who defended the Matrix sequels by pointing out to all the religious references, like that somehow made the abysmal production of those films any more tollerable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> While I can't speak for anyone else, that is certainly not why I liked Matrix Reloaded better than the original. In truth, I would agree that all the religious references is one of the things that detract from Revolutions. No, what I liked Reloaded was that it made the whole Matrix reality so much more complex than it had been before. At the end of the film, I was really wondering what was going on - there were just such endless possibilities that it truly opened up entirely new worlds within the franchise to me. Unfortunately Revolutions decided to spend more time trying to overlook the consequences than exploring them. Sad... But it didn't actually dismiss the possibilities of what might be going on. Not in the slightest, and you can argue that it did just the opposite. I mean, the question of whether Neo is something created by the machines to control a dissenting factor of humanity is never touched upon again in Revolutions. Reloaded, on the other hand, was a boatload of vague clues and weird suggetions that inferred some hidden truths. Well, I liked the Kill Bill movies. There is something very likeable about movies that are completely upfront about what they want to do. Kill Bill makes no pretenses about being anything more than it is. You'd think two movies about a woman wanting revenge would be incredibly long-winded and boring, but Tarantino has lost none of his ability as a storyteller, and that makes it all worthwhile, at least to me. Not a masterpiece, though. His masterpiece would be Pulp Fiction, I think... Never thought about it before, but it's probably also true that Kill Bill appeals mostly to movie buffs and people who like violence. That would also explain why many agree that the first movie was great, but disagree sharply on the second - the first group likes both movies, while the second group likes only the first. Good interpretation for me, though, since I liked both :D

I know, but how important is really whether she had the child before or after? I mean, the way Bastila describes in K1, the tradition of cutting the connections to the family has mostly something to do with the emotions between family being so strong that it becomes very difficult for a jedi to see past them. Yet they trained Nomi anyway. Consider if Nomi had fought HK-47. HK tells the Exile to attack the jedi's friends, so HK attacks Vima instead of Nomi. How would Nomi react to that? Would she be susceptible to fall the dark side as a consequence? I think she would - the mother-child relationship is about as strong a bond as I can imagine and seems to be virtually impossible for a mother to see beyond. Whether it is Nomi's "fault" or not is just a secondary consideration next to that, yet the masters still didn't hesitate to train Nomi... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You lost me somewhere in there. Reword please, I didn't understand. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay, I'll give it a shot... In K2 you can get HK-47 to give you advice on how to kill jedi, if you build high influence with him. It basically comes down to never attacking a jedi, but rather attacking those they protect, because a jedi will avoid your attacks if you direct them at him/her, but happily jump in front of them, if you target the innocent bystanders. Now, what if Nomi's daughter was killed or even wounded due to such a tactic? How would Nomi react? I think she would be pretty furious, because the mother-child relationship is one of the strongest there. With that in play, I think jedi philosophy quickly goes out the window, which would leave the mother (or even father) very vulnerable to influence by the dark side. Similarly, Anakin truly began to fall with the death of his mother, which is the same bond, only from the other side. He quickly abandoned his jedi ways too (and his orders), and when his mother died, he slaughtered an entire village of sand people. But I actually consider Anakin's nothing next to what a parent would be prepared to do to save his or her child(ren). If you wanted to corrupt Nomi, threatening Vima (her daughter) would be a very effective way to do that. And HK is right, because Nomi would give up her life in a second to save her child. And yet, Nomi is still considered one of the greatest and most admirable jedi of her day even so.

No, it isn't. The answer is, of course, "yes" :D

Well, I've never seen that established anywhere, which makes it more likely as far as I'm concerned that Kreia is simply twisting the facts to hide her own past. Also, Jolee's story does not seem to confirm that there was a fundamental change of perception in the order just after the Sith War.

"My CPU is a neural net processor, a learning computer."- Arnold Schwarzenegger <{POST_SNAPBACK}> [shudder] I actually did think about mentioning skynet, only I thought I had just played too much Fallout 2...

No, but doesn't that point more to an expansion than a game in its own right... If we choose to overlook the admittedly far more complex plot, I mean. It seems to me that K2 is an example of plot rather than code being what decides whether something is just an expansion or a new game...