Kalfear

LOL aye. I hate playing a female as well. 1) Carth or Atton hitting on me just freaks me out bad! 2) the storylines dont flow as smoothly 3) I end up trying to get lesbian affairs going (heh) But its still worth it, KotOR1 and 2 are so awsome for taking the same events but creating interesting new sub stories. As I said, to get the most outta the games (storyline wise) play an LS MALE Revan/Exile. But every other combination is worth the effort

True yes, but in your first post you didnt mention the old planets and focased on new ones so just assumed you wanted all new ones. As I said, far to many still open storys from part 1 and 2 that need to be closed to not revisit the old planets planets. This is where you and I disagree the most to be honest. I personally dont want stories closed off through cameos, thats the easy way out. We have built up relations with these old characters so you just give them closure through cameos seems like the cheap way out to me. Other games it would be fine but I expect more from KotOR series Also, the long and the short of it is, regardless of personal preference, the Exile is the main character of the story now. Raven (in part 1) set up the back story but the focas is now clearly on the Exile. *just like Anakin set up the back story for Star Wars, and even though the whole story (all 6 episodes) about the fall and rise of anakin Skywalker, the main story revolves around Luke, not Anakin. Same thing here, the KotOR series is obviously about Revan, but its the Exiles actions that will allow Revan to succeed. That was made very clear in KotOR2. Everything the Exile went through is to AID Revan in the final battle. So by making the Exile as you describe, you effectively take him outta the story from the get go of part 3. If we look at how the story is set up for us already, Revan is basically lost somewhere in the outter rim, its up to the Exile (and companions) to find and save Revan. Again, see above regarding Cameo's. Its not up to KotOR series standards to be brutaly honest. Also, why would the Handmaiden be on Coruscant? She is just a Padawen really unless you going 20 years into the future. She is still learning, battleing emotions. Not to mention she already has a home base on Telos that holds many Jedi AND sith artifacts. Those would not be abandoned. Lastly, I didnt get the feeling at all in KotOR2 that Handmaiden held any animosity towards Revan for the death of her Mother and Father. Her story in that regards was learning about them and her ties to the force, not revenge. With all the unfullfilled storylines regarding the Handmaiden from KotOR2, I think creating a new one that was never hinted at or mentioned just for the sake of creating animosity between her and a new leader would be a mistake. Lastly, and this is the most important one IMO. Revan is not the leader of the Jedi at this moment in time (based on KotOR2 storyline and ending). Its the Exile that the surviving Jedi and new Jedi are rallying around. Revan has forsaken everyone again (for a noble purpose granted), but hes definately not the leader at this point in the storyline. The Exile, not Revan, is the glue that holds the story togather at this moment in time. Really, if you think about it, there is pleanty of evidence that Atton, Mira, Visas, Handmaiden, Bao would NOT follow Revan to begin with. Remember, Bao's loyalty, Visas loyalty, Mira's loyalty, Handmaidens loyalty are NOT to the Jedi order. They are loyal to the Exile himself, the person, not the religion that does or does not drive him. So right there, if the designers were trying to make the storyline flow smoothly, they would have to opt to not have any of those characters involved in storyline of part 3 to begin with. Which would cause the entire series to not work IMO. hehe again look to top for reason not to use cameos for finishing off the existing storylines. hmmmm, see I didnt think the romance storyline of Carth/Bastila towards Revan was an important part of KotOR2. In fact I will go so far as to say any "new " players that didnt play part 1 (so didnt know the whole love interest storyline) didnt care about Revan all that much. Im pretty sure when it came to the love stories, new players cared only about the current love stories happening in game, not the one that happened in KotOR1, as they truely didnt effect the current story being told. Revan was the goal the story was working towards, but he/she wasnt the player or hero of the story. The exile was the player/hero of the story in KotOR2 and his/her story hasnt ended yet. Unlike KotOR1, KotOR2 was more of a cliff hanger ending. To be continued. hmmm, well lets do this one point by point 1) Kreia wasnt Handmaidens mother, that was answered crealy and with out question in part 2. 2) Revan might think that but more then likely, Revan wouldnt even remember Handmaidens mother as she was just a soldier following him. A talented one but still just a follower. 3) (personal opinion) But I think Kreia is dead. Her goal was achieved. Now its up to the Exile where he goes from here. I think it far more likely that if they did bring back Kreia in the way you describe that they would bring her back speaking to the Exile rather then Revan. The Exile is her pet project, not Revan. okies we disagree strongly here to be honest. There is a ton of unfinished storylines that already exist in characters we have attatchments to. Last thing we need is more new party members jumbleing up the storylines with even more new storylines. K3 should be the finish of the Revan/Exile storyline. That means they should tie up all the loose ends for the characters previously introduced in parts 1 and 2. Again, if Raven, not the Exile is the leader, its highly unlikely that Bao would follow. Its 100% guarenteed Visas would not follow. Their loyaltys were to the Exile, not the Jedi and certainly not a once fallen conquer who has/hasnt been reabilitated. That could happen but you still face the problem that lightside or darkside, Atton doesnt trust Jedis. His loyalty is to the Exile, not to the Jedis and certainly not to Revan (the person that he originally ran and hid from after killing the only Jedi he loved on the orders of Revan). So Atton (like Visas) would never join the party with out The Exile as the leader. hehe, there that cameo word again The way I see it, the only way to get the original 2 groups togather and stay true to the story is to have them rally behind the Exile. The Exile has already been in contact with Bastila and/or Carth. This is the Key to getting the groups togather. The Exile announces he/she is going to go find Revan (the actual middle story of part 3...the guts so to speak), his followers obviously follow him and because its a common goal Bastila/Carth gather the first group as well. Thats the only feasible way I can see to gather both games groups togather and hold continuaty in the storyline. Even if you say that happened and then the Exile changed to what you suggest during the search and part 3 starts after the change, your still left with trying to Validate the presence of Visas, Bao, Carth at the very least as they just will not trust or follow Revan based on their current storylines. For myself ( again personal opinion) if old characters brought back and Visas not there, the games just not worth playing to be honest as she is one of the MOST important characters to me from either game. She has come along ways but her story has yet to be finished. I would love to add characters like Juhari or Mission or Bastila (sorry I just hate Wookies) to my party but Visas story is far more important and interesting then all three of those combined IMO. It would be like ordering a TBone steak Medium Rare and settleing for a burnt Hamburger. Anyways, thats my devils advocate agruement for your idea *dont take it personally btw: If I didnt think your idea had merit I wouldnt bother responding at all *

LOL, hitchhickers Guide to the galaxy RPG already made. Just its really old (I played it on old commador 64 system) you could check through some of those C64 emulator sights tho to see if they have the game listed in their selections. Was a fun game btw

Cant vote as my choice (after reading the topic heading ) would be Master spellchecker and Darth Grammar with a special visit from count Word Structure

she? her? bah!!!!! whats with this made up concept Exile was a she

I convinced him to leave locker, he freaked out and ran away and was killed because of it.

Ohhhh for certain planets Nar Shaddar when you first land and explore first zone. Atton/Handmaiden: The interaction between the two when they guy comes up to you about the Ebon Hawk is PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!! Onderon: Depends if your going light or dark but if you go dark try this combo Go-To/Mandalore or Mandalore/ Visas Any fight sequence : HK and Mira (they really dont like each other) LOL, thats all I can remember, think its time I replayed the game hehehe

LOL, I dont think having a male or female matters in the game (and adds nice variety) but anyone who thinks KotOR1 or 2 wasnt written with a LS MALE Revan/Exile in mind are deluding themselves!

kinda lost me on Handmaiden and Leia! Id say Bastila and Leia much more similar then Handmaiden is

Okies, dont just dismiss me here right off the bat (there a meathod to my madness). Back in the late 80s/early 90s some games would come out with a NR18 patch/expansion for games that basically added nudity to the games. Back then they didnt go over that well and the practice was stopped. Today however is not the late 80s/early 90s. Now I must admit I didnt bother purchaseing these as it really didnt add anything to the games BUT... Traveling over the web for last couple years it seems players (I have no clue of real age) are looking for more direct, less subtle content. So my question is, is it time for computer companies to start adding adult content? Im not talking about full on sex acts or stuff like that but pay for expansions/downloads that include acts/scenes/language that would push the game rating into the "restricted" catagory? Even on these very boards you can find a thread about how the romance in KotOR2 was to subtle and not in your face enough that people didnt catch on to the meaning behind the acts. IE: The force sharing between the Exile and Visas was basically a classy way of doing sex. But people so use to not being challenged in creative indoendo (sp?) that they didnt understand. I really think these people needed Exile and Visas to strip down and bump uglies to get the concept across to them. But its not just KotOR2. In SWG there is a way to create nude female vendors, there is clothing that leaves very little to the imagination for female PCs to wear. UO and Lineage games push the envolope in scanty garmets. Other games have actually included nudity in their released versions from the get go. I dont actually think games should have nudity in them from the get go but has the concept and reality now hit that its the next logical step (much like the movie industry and how they use to handle onscreen sex in the 50s compared to what you see onscreen today). Just something thats been banging around in my head the past while as I read boards and notice the gaming communities as a whole become less and less satisfied with creative abstracts rather then in your face everything.

WOW Im on a roll with disagreeing today! I found KotOR2 told much more of your parties background then KotOR1 ever did. The only obvious difference was the side quest for KotOR2 was gaining influence to find that information which was an excellent and logical way to do it. Far as whats in next game, I have listed what I think in a different thread but will condense here as well. 1) Revan and Exile must meet up to defeat the real sith 2) we need closure on the party NPCs from game 1 and 2 (and not just predetermined one line explanation closure) 3) We need to find out, does the exile stay true to jedi tradition, does he follow Kreias warning, does he hook up with Visas/Handmaiden/Mira? Which one? which 2? all 3? 4) HK factory must be in K3 5) What happens with Mandalore 6) Do exile and revan rebuild the academies on Dant and Telos? (Korriban if dark side) 7) Do Revan and Bastila rejoin togather? Those the mandatory things we need to see in K3 far as Im concerned. Basically we need closure! PS: either return to part 1 swoop racing or remove it from game! Tried it couple times in part 2 and didnt bother from then on. New style was not fun what so ever if you ask me!

heheh let me expand. Im not saying he cant be staying loyal to his jedi traditions (if that is what you as a player choose to do). Just its left wide open enough that thats not the only reason for the lack of interaction thus far. The story is setting it self up and was left as a cliff hanger for part 3. I mean, speaking soly for myself here, I would buy part 3 just for the completion of the love stories as long as they included them. The rest of the stories would be bonus material.

Totally disagree. The interplay between the Exile and Handmaiden or Exile and Visas was MUCH MORE intimate then anything offered in KotOR1. So what they didnt kiss or bump ugly, the underlaying tension and eventual release of those tensions were much more pure romance and MATURE in nature then anything Bastila had to offer up to Revan in KotOR1. Even the dialog with Mira was semi joking but laced with underlaying tension (expanded on when you read Miras thoughts) and left with a "possible" future connection type of feeling. Seriously folks, you DONT need to see them kiss or screw on screen to get the point across. Obsidian was much more subtle then Bioware (who basically just slapped you upside the head with the love story so none could miss it). Obsidian did it in a far more mature and intense manner. The (as called force sex) between Visas and Exile at the start of the final chapters was one of the most well done and sensual moments Ive ever seen in a RPG game to be honest and the effect and meaning was obvious for all but the slowest of people. Handmaiden going crazy and kidnapping Kreia, killing her sisters, fighting Atris, and finally opening up to you and telling you her name all because she thought you were killed by Kreia and Atris (atris indirectly) left no doubt what so ever on her true feelings for you. Mira tracking you on Malacor V even after spurning your advances at the risk of her own life even was symbolic of the loyalty and feelings she had for the Exile. Come on folks, you DONT need the kissing and such when you have all that in play. Obsidian did quite possibly the best love interest story Ive ever seen to date in cRPG to be honest. Even in part 1 when Bastila declared her love and they kissed I was like "ok, who really didnt see that comeing", it was all predictable! Obsidians way was much more subtle and there for much better pay off. The Exile didnt hold to the Jedi path either, Obsidian decided not to close the stories off (which is the GREATEST INDICATION that a KotOR3 on its way). These storyline HAVE to pick up where they left off and complete in KotOR3. Exile not being true to Jedi code, he just took the storylines as far as he could in KotOR2. Obsidian just doing what ALL good story tellers do, they didnt rush you to the climate of the tale like KotOR1 did regarding Bastila/Revan. As Ive said in multiple posts I usually HATE the love story crap in cRPGs and its handled so immaturly. Obsidian however hooked me and dragged me in leaving me ACTUALLY WANTING MORE! I actually want to know where these characters end up, with who they end up with, what causes that. Obsidian did what ALL good story tellers should do, leave you wanting more! I cant really comment on the female Exile t hen to say sure the love story was lacking there, but then again its obvious to pretty much everyone the original story (for parts 1 and 2) were designed for the PC to be a MALE LS Revan or an MALE LS Exile. The female PC stuff was just after thought to increase options and multiple play throughs.

I hope your right, to me both Revan and the Exile (exile moreso then Revan) are needed as the PC to finish the existing storylines in place to finish the series off!

1) Handmaiden, Visas as default partners 2) Atton, Visas for NAr Shaddar (when you first land and explore the FIRST zone only) 3) Mandalore thrown in for chuckles as hes always blood thirsty! hehehe

Interesting Ace, Before I go on let me say well thought out and presented But I dont like it to be honest and here is why, 1) you dont have any of the previous game planets included. To me KotOR is as much a story as it is a game and not having those planets leaves far to many unanswered questions. 2) Basically your saying the Exile turned into Nihilus (or very similiar), what about all the open storylines from part 2 regarding the exile. This just seems a cheap way to get around them to me and I think the mass public would be left unhappy with such a work around. I know I would. 3) What about the old characters from Parts 1 and 2? I know in part two we found the journal of Jolee and the outterrim stories. But to be honest (and FTR I didnt like Jolee) I felt that was a really cheap way to write him outta the story. What about Mira? Visas? Mission? Atton? ect ect ect. These are all characters we have grown to like and part 3 should give us an ending regarding them. Not just a breif wording of "this is what happened to them" but and ending where we design what happens. 4) What about bringing Onderon back into the republic. sure we saved (or didnt) the queen but that part of story was left unanswered beyond that. What about Telos, does Bao go back and help restore it? What about the academies on Telos and Dant? 5) Love stories. As Ive said in other threads I usually hate love interests and that in games, but KotOR series is the exception to the rule. What happens between the Exile and Handmaiden? or Visas? heck or Mira? Think what im saying is Part 3 needs to be a ending to the series. To do that they have to focas as much effort on part 1 and 2 storylines that were left open ended as they do on expanding the storyline to include Revan with the Exile. Anything less would mean a part 4 is needed or anger ALOT of players. This game isnt just a game, its a sci fi novel/book. Like any book the loose ends need to be tied up in meaningful ways and not just one sentance endings or cheap means. Thats my take on it anyways, as I said, I personally appreciate your concept but it doesnt answer any of the questions I still have in ways that would satisfy me as a customer.

What you say about Bandon can easily be said about Nihilus. I mean, what an anti-climax. And that voice -- was it me, or was he totally unintelligable. I needed subtitles. And what a fight! Planet-eating monster, indeed. At least the jedi on genosis were outnumbered about 1000:1. And that clown mask -- please. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Even though the confrontation with Niilus was anti climatic, Nihilus had a great and interesting back story to him I loved his character because it was a interesting character, sure the fight was nothing to write home about, but the build up to the fight was awsome. Where as you look at Malak, great end of game fight, but a totally and completely one dimensional character that bored me from start to finish in KotOR1. It was the Star Forge and party NPCs that kept me going in Part 1, definately not Malak.

Id say the other reason was to remove the instant party heal the "return to EH" created as well.

i like your idea but i would like to play as revan sometime in 3 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Dew, what I suggested in other part 3 thread was that exile/new character be used for easy and normal play (character would transfer over from part 2 at level 30 for easy play and 25 for normal play). And then if a person played expert difficulty they would play revan transfered over from part 1 at level 20 (or new revan rolled up at level 20). Story could be much the same, just with revan chasing after the other group, always a step behind, until the normal meeting spot in story. I really think this could work The biggest advantage to this idea I put forth is with being allowed to choose your group from such a multitude of characters, the repeating game play would be huge as the interaction and rivalries would be changing from game to game. As would the love story backstories. PS: To the poster that got her panties in a knot over me saying a male exile/revan! LOL, it was a joke. Get a sence of humor. Of course the game would run with male or female exile/revan. If you REALLY wanna get nitpicky about it though, the story (both parts 1 and 2)makes a WHOLE TON of sence more with Revan and Exile being male and were obviously written originally with them as MALE . So think its you (as pretty sure Im much much older then you in real life) that needs to grow up and take a valium or 3 and calm the hell down. Go get a sence of humor and leave the overly critical political correctness garbage outta the forums. Ok little missy (pats her on top of head), now run off and play in traffic

I voted Malak as he was just such a boring character storyline wise. But the worst jedi had to be Vrook! Which makes sence as he was actually a sith

One of the few games in last decade Id gladly pay again for (well no thats poor wording). One of the few games in last decade I got my money worth from. Games that were worth their price: KotOR 1 and 2, Civ 3 (and expansions), Really ANY CIV game,Original rollercoaster Tycoon (and expansions), ANY Heros of Might and Magic. Games not worth what paid for: Halo (got for free and thats still to much), Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 (wasted $30.00), WoW (played beta for free, way to much a price), SWG (great concept, to bad SOE handling it), Any D&D (fantasy) RPG since Gold Box Games by SSI. Republic Commando (played Demo, felt cheated). Everything else really just sorta throw away games. Really wish developers would make quality products again like back in old C64 days!

Id have to say Sidious as Kreia wasnt really evil. HOWEVER if they removed the self defeating trait of Kreia's (were she basically sacrafices herself for the exile), I actually think Kreia is alot smarter then Sidious. Sidious is just to transparent a villan for my tastes. Other then Jar Jar, Sidious is the one area I think Lucas failed horribly in regarding Star Wars. Hes a transparent evil thats just a poor reflection of far to many real life historic Villians. Obviously its just the writing for the movies but hes just not that cunning a villian.

*grins* where is the Visas Blow up Doll? :PPPPP LOL! Seriously tho, Id love some KotOR 1 and 2 minitures even though I know longer play Warhammer I still have a freaking painting minitures addiction! Would love some minitures from KotOR1 and 2 to paint up for my collection.

I dont get this, I bought game when it first came out Handmaiden Jedi Glitch: Never happened, only time I wasnt able to turn her into a jedi was when I screwed up in interactions with her. My own screw up is hardly what is clasified as a glitch though. Bao cant build lightsabre? Never happened, if I had ALL the parts he built it each and EVERY time. Redemption Quest: Completed it in 6 of my 8 play throughs, didnt complete it in 2 play through because *gasps* I DIDNT REDEEM THE JEDIS AND TOOK THE EVIL ROUTE!!!!!! . Again, my own actions do not qualify as game glitchs! Telos Criminal Glitch? WHAT GLITCH! either lie to the telos officer and finish quest or find them on planet serface and finish quest! Telos Fuel Quest (anouther quest everyone complained about), set up communications between the hutt and telos and YOUR part of the quest is finished. If people stopped and actually read the message they would realize that your part of quest is just setting up communication, not actually getting fuel to Telos. Hence why the Telos officer doesnt reward you because you are rewarded by the Hutt when you set up the communications between him and Telos government. Gotta admit, its really annoying to come here and see non stop whines about COMPLETEABLE quests being glitchs when its just the players inability to read that is the problem. I truely doubt I got the ONE and ONLY working copy of KotOR2 for xbox. Sorry that logic just doesnt fly! Flame away but fact remains, every quest in XBox version is completeable if you read the messages game gives you. *disclaimer* I have noticed since its release though that players that uttilize ingame cheats and/or have modified their xboxs did have the mass majority of issues with game. To them all I can say is *you cheat, you lose*. As it is in life, as it is in gaming. Only themselves to blame. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Handmaiden glitch is random. After the cut-scene with Kreia *SOMETIMES* you will find yourself alone @ Jedi Academy on Telos. The Bao-Dur glitch happens when you turn him into a jedi *BEFORE* building your lightsaber. You won't have the option anymore. For the redemption quest. What exactly did you do to finish it? The Criminal quest.... Unless you do the meeting with them in some sort of weird order, it will become unsolveble. (they won't appear on the planet below. and no, the journal does not hint anything) I didn't say anything about the fuel quest. I know it's not broken. These are existing. I must say, you must have some luck to have avoided them all. And the point of this thread was to inform all the Xbox owners that feel alittle cheated about PC patches, and the fact that we are getting bug fixes, that they shouldn't be. Because it's taken 4 months for us to have the same game as they do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Redemption is all about redeaming the jedi. You get the quest when you speak to the female NPC that comes to your ship and see you are a jedi. So take the light route, do everything you need to do to help the village, then save the village, then speak to the same NPC (she is outside the town hall after you save the village) and she has changed her mind and jedis have been REDEMED. If you dont help the village, if you go evil, you have solidified her opinion of the Jedis and there for not redemed them (hense you have failed to complete quest). As for criminals, only order is get the quest, goto Czerka Corp head Quarter where you encounter criminals, return to the police HQ and lie to officer (which works 100% of the time) or you have to goto surface and encounter the criminals there (which also works). BUT if you encounter Criminals on surface that means you must then RETURN to police HQ after you do military base and Telos academy for your reward (which I must admit I forgot to do in one game). So quest stays active until you head back (prior to Ravenger part) and do the last step. Didnt say you said anything about feul, just remember there being like 50 topics about it (when game first released) with people claiming its bugged because Police Officer on Telos doesnt give out the reward so added it in my example! Its really just a simple matter of reading and understanding whats been said and is required of you.