Kalfear

LOL, yes I mean Han and not Hans from Die Hard That could be part of it, I played my first 4 games of KotOR as a male PC so my opinion of Carth was fully set by the time I played the game as a female PC. But even as a female PC, his pick up lines are TERRIBLE!!!! ROFL! I mean seriously, he was useing lines you would expect from a kid in grade 8 or 9, not a 30 something person (unless they going through a midlife crisis early). LOL, I never even got off Taris before I took advantage of the scripted opertunity to tell him to shut up. Course I never go for the romance anyways when I play a female PC (well in JE I did but with Silk Fox, not Sky). But his lines were terrible towards women from what I read anyways. Honestly im surprised so many didnt like Carth to be honest, I really thought I was in the super minor minority on that topic. LOL, maybe its just the make up of who still reads and posts here so long after KotOR2 released. PS: Also really surprised to see someone say HK or Visas in their hated lists. I thought everyone loved HK. And far as Visas goes, must be a female player cause for guys, Visas was the perfect cRPG female

hehe sitting here bored so figured why not make a senceless post asking who you hated the most from both KotORs. EXCLUDING Revan or Exile! While I truely hated Go-To while playing KotOR2, now that some time has passed by (and ive finished playing both of them fully) and Ive had time to reflect and thing back. My least favorite party member was none other then Carth Onasis. Really dislike this character, for the life of me I cant figure out why the female players take such a liking to him. I could understand them swooning over Atton or Sky(from JE) but all Carth did for the entire K1 game was complain and whine about how hard his lifes been. For the life of me I DONT see the comparrison people make between him and Hans. Hans was witty, sarcastic, and had a certain charm about him. None of those aspects can really be said about Carth. Anyways, my other least favorites (rounding out top 5) were: 2) Go-To 3) Disiple (the Carth of KotOR2 IMO, just less seen or heard...thank god) 4) Both Wookies (heh, I just dont like Wookies tho) 5) Bao Dur (just never really appreciated the character, dont know why really) (to be fair I didnt hate Bao though, I just didnt really appreciate him either. He was like Misson for me, a character thats in the group but only used when forced to) My top 5 favorites from both games were: 1) Visas (heh, best female character ever in a RPG) 2) Mira (Great attitude, loved the sarcasm) 3) Handmaiden (interesting character, grabs your attention and holds it) 4) Mandalore (awsome character, loved him in both K1 and K2, just wished K2 would have made him more important to the storyline) 5) T3 (Love this little droid, not as funny as HK, but I always opted for T3 to travel with me when I was forced to use a droid. Just all round great droid)

I didnt hate it, I just figured it was to obvious (the main issue I have with Bioware games). Far as just the story line goes, it was needed and gave Carth yet anouther reason to whine (which was good I guess as his first whining topic was really getting on my nerves by that point). I will say, after reading peroples ideas that Bastila should have been the main character of KotOR, im glad Bioware went with you as Revan storyline. Bastila wasnt a hero and her being turned was needed for the story to advance. Also her romance with Revan was needed to make sence of the storyline (whicj is where the female PC option storyline fell apart in K1). She was to important of a NPC to be made the Player Character of KotOR. As I said, I didnt hate it, but I did figure it out by the time I was ready to leave Dant the first time. So my complaint wasnt the storyline but the overly obvious hint Bioware wrote into the game which ruined any of the surprises. I mean, sit back and compare Atton to Carth (as both similar characters). Atton had secrets and when he finally broke down and told you his story you were surprised, Obsidian didnt ruin Attons storyline. With Carth, by the time you get his story your like," ummm, I figured that out 20 hours ago, what a let down". Bioware did the same thing in Jade Empire, there were no surprises as they over hinted or point blank gave the story away prior to it becoming relevant. K1 had a great storyline, BW just needs to learn to quit giveing the story away before its time. PS: As for the lack of memory in both K1 and K2, in retrospect im glad they did it that way. After reading the K1 and K2 and JE boards, Im pretty glad Bioware and Obsidian went with the forgotten past portion of the games. To create characters like Revan or the Exile WITH memories intact would mean ALOT of reading at the start to bring players up to speed on the character. After reading the different message boards and seeing how many folks DONT pay attention to whats being said in game, to rely on players to actually read about their pasts would be asking for trouble and the boards would be filled up with useless questions about characters clearly answered in the game. I think the amniesia way they went about it, minimizes the reading required, which minimizes the complaints from word go. Both Bioware and Obsidian were able to give you the key info needed to play and not have to worry about banging home non needed info by useing the route they went with.

LOL, Im no expert on jedi but I always ignore that principle your speaking about and fool around trying to see if there is a love interest in the games. I agree the love policy is stupid, but hey its star wars! I mean they say love is bad then write in love interests for most of the main characters anyways! LOL Just take it with a grain of salt Kinda offtopic: Anyone else think GL was going through a nasty break up when he wrote that stuff about love leading to the dark side! LOL

I think KotOR story was strong enough that wouldnt change much regarding that aspect. So this is what I would have changed: 1) Larger areas/more zones (I found all the planets to just be to small) 2) Lenght of game (connected to number 1) 3) Add Obsidians influence system for all npcs. (this is one of the areas that Obsidian blew away K1) 4) Star Forge size. (sorry but for size and importance of the station the star forge should have been at least 3 times the size it was in game) 5) An option to place a muzzle on Carth so you wouldnt hear his never ending whining 6) An option to kill Carth rather then Mission on the last planet 7) opps, start as a jedi, no freaking scout, soldier classes at begining (truely hated this aspect of KotOR1, much prefered starting as a jedi in K2) Thats pretty much about it. I dont think it needed more planets in game, just needed more zones and larger areas in game. Only other thing that comes to mind is the writing. I find Bioware writing to be very predictable and rarely am I surprised. I had this same problem in JE, everything was obvious so nothing surprised me as I had guessed it a long time before they announced it. I just wish Bioware would stop giving away the storylines ahead of time and make us think more, make the clues less obvious. If your asking about K2: 1) NO GO-TO CHARACTER!!!!!! 2) Addition of the HK factory (thats the only thing I reall feel was missing from game, everything else including Malacor was passable) 3) Larger areas/more zones (same as K1) 4) The ending cinimatic K2 was a more interesting game as things were not so appearent as in K1. As I said above, HK factory really the only thing I noticed was missing. The quests were designed well and interesting, the npc party members (other then Go-To) were interesting as well and im a huge fan of obsidians influence system. Since I had less bugs in K2 then I had in K1 I cant really complain about that either. No bugs would be nice but I can settle for less bugs then K1 and no game stopping bugs.

I guess Ill say Jedi Masters BUT to be honest I found star maps and jedi masters to be kinda boring in both games. I found the trip to the star maps and jedi masters far more interesting then actually finding them. There was also major problems in both storylines regarding the star maps and master jedis that contradicted the searchs. This nt the spoiler section so wont go into those contradictions here other then to say, when all was said and done, neither made a whole lot of sence when you take into account who was around and where they were located.

Yas know, I dont get why people think Women cant do something in this day and age. It should be clear by now they can. But that statement doesnt change the fact that both K1 and K2 (original scripts) were written as male main characters. Dont have to be sexist about topic, and dont have to be rah rah rah women about topic. Just follow the storylines and the original concept is clear. Thats all there really is to it. People really do read far to much into these topics now adays. Just freaking play the game, it becomes obvious which is the original path and which is added in after to satify everyone. K1 and K2 were obvious in the writting on what the PCs sex was originally written as. Only game out there so far that wasnt obvious and open to massive debate was Jade Empire.

Id actually be very interested in seeing a KotOR 1,2, and 3 (yes yes, I know, but we all know its coming) movies. I find the Old Republic to be FAR more interesting then the time period for all 6 Star wars movies to be honest. Maybe because its more open and has villians besides the Imps. I Love (to hate) Czerka Corp in the KotOR games. Love (to hate) the Exchange (and other rougish gangs), even love the sith more. That could explain why im one of the few out there thats enjoying episode 1,2, and 3 (minus Jar Jar of course) MORE then Episodes 4,5,6. Everything not so black and white. I do however think there would be a huge whine fest on the internet if KotOR 1 and 2 got made into movies. Soon as the male Revan and male Exile appeared, the complaints would start flowing in. Unless of course they rewote the obviously original storylines to support female main character heros. But if they do that they run the risk of having the actual story corrupted like so many comic to movie movies. Would be interesting tho

1) Sure am comparing them and heres why. 1a) First off KotOR2 was a set up for KotOR3. I understand this basic and obvious fact so KotOR2 never felt incomplete to me (or no worse then K1 anyways). Sure I didnt care for the ending of K2, but I just took it as a "to be continued" ending. Heck movies have done it before (remember Back to the Future 2?), so why cant a video game? 1b) If your refering to content being incomplete. Well content was missing, but the content in the game was completed enough that it didnt feel incomplete. Both K1 and K2 endings (not the cinematics but ending...for K1 it was Star Forge, for K2 it was MalacorV) left me somewhat unsatisfied as BOTH games were to short in ending content (Frankly, K2 was at least twice the size of the Star Forge anyways). 1c) Lets see, I know, NPC party characters. Do I know (before K2) what happened to Carth? Bastila? HK? T3? Jolee? ect ect ect after K1 ended. Hmmm nope, dont know a dang thing about them. BUT, now that I think about it, I have some idea on what happens to my group mates from K2 (other then Bao and the droids). WOW, seems K2 was MORE completed then part 1 now I think about it. 1d) Hmm maybe you mean bugs? I had more bugs in K1 then I had in K2. JE was better then both where game bugs are concerned. But JE only has 20 hours of playable material and limited replay value, so JE left me unfullfilled by a larger percentage then K1 or K2 did. As for your second point, I have no clue what your trying to say so you can repost in actual english or deside to drop it. Closeing: I liked K2 more. Why? Because it was the better game (even with content cut out of it). I loved JE and K1 as well but both games are SO FREAKING Linear its enough top drive you insane. There is plenty from K1 and JE that wasnt answered or left me with a feeling of incompleteness. Frankly Im tired of hearing Bioware fanbois bash K2 for the sake of bashing it. K2 wasnt half as bad as many posters made it out to be here and was a far cry better then other crap out there currently disguised as cRPGs. Yes K2 had its share of problems, but all in all, its still a more enjoyable, more adult orientated, and NOT as predictable as KotOR1 or JE was.

Loved KotOR2 Best RPG Ive played in last decade. Im an old RPG fan and all the stuff like fallout, FF series, New NWN, Balders Gate, ect never really appealed to me. The KotOR series was a very welcome return to story based RPGs for me (as was JE). My top 3 RPGs (in last 10 years) are: 1) KotOR2 2) KotOR 3) Jade Empire Parts one and two are actually very close in rankings for me, just part 2 gets the nod because it wasnt as predictable, found my group mates more interesting and enjoyable (biggest disappointment in K1 was I couldnt kill Carth, cause lightside or darkside, I was SICK TO DEATH of his never ending whining by the time we hit the planet below the Star Forge), and was slightly larger (with greater replay value) then part 1. JE could have been better then both but Bioware missed the boat by having influence only matter in love stories (other characters stories you learn by just speaking to them often), limit of one party npc traveling with you (rather then the 2 members we have in KotOR series), and game was far to small content wise (as I said, 20 hours to play and that includes watching all the cinematics and listening to the voices)..

ugh, if thats the case, count me out. I don't game enough to warrant buying a console. Heres hoping that it comes to PC as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hmmm a franchise thats made a ton of money (being xbox only) is suddenly going to switch to PS for no reason at all? ROFLMAO! Thats one of the dumbest rumors Ive ever heard. No chance in hell that happens!

LOL, problem with that type of opinion is if I adopted that kind of thinking Id SERIOUSLY have a lack of games Id buy. I mean seriously, just off top of head that would eliminate -ANY Sony product -ANY Blizzard product -ANY LA product -list goes on and on!

Will buy it in a heart beat K2 was better then K1 so hopefully K3 will be better then K2 or K1

RolePlaying Gaming is charachterized by interacting with others in a (in the rules of the world you're playing in) realistic surroundings. The key to roleplaying is being able to identify with you charachter, and like when you're drawn into a book you're reading, be drawn into that character. PCRPG (Personal Computer RolePlaying Gaming) must fill out some criteria to call itself an RPG. All uncommon persons in the game must have dialogue. A good PCRPG must have long, realistic and deep dialogue, especially for more important persons. PCRPG is also characterized by free options. You choose where to go, when to go there, who to speak to and which quest to concentrate on, contrary to other games where the game chooses for you. Besides that, RPG is more philosophical and more set upon bringing the player into the game than giving the player an actionfilled experience. I've played D&D(Dungeons and Dragons), AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons), GURPS (Generic Universal RolePlaying System), Storyteller, White Wolf, and other systems for over seven years now, and I still play both that and Live Roleplaying including semi-live. AND I've written my own compendium filling out 150 pages so I think I've earned the right to say I know what I speak of I don't take it as a flame, I'm actually glad that the question is posed because I agree that the term is misunderstood often. Just the other day, one of my friends call Deer Hunter an RPG *SHIVER* But by the looks of the posts on this topic, KotORII isn't as hated as I thought it was thank god. To the one who said Bioware has many fans: Doesn't Obsidian to? I mean they're the old Black Isle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Grunker, Sorry but im not following your answer here. I know what makes an RPG games. What I dont understand is what you (and others) do that seems to seperate yourselves from other players. IE: why are you considered a Roleplayer but player B isnt? Everyone tries to identify with their character so some degree, so immersion isnt the answer. Everyone has the same level of cutomization so thats not the ticket. Like I said, In a Single Player RPG I would never call myself a roleplayer because Single Player RPGs lack the fundamental aspects needed to Roleplay successfully. The game itself can be clasified as a RPG because its focas is on the storyline rather then action. successful RPGs make you care about the character you play and the npc characters in the game. A unsuccessful one fails in that aspect. but neither (no matter how well done) allows the player to be a "roleplayer" any more or less then the next person playing. As I said before, I use to roleplay in oNWN on AOL. To do that I: 1) Learned to speak (communicate) in the Drow language 2) Wrote interactive stories weekly about my character in the setting 3) Stayed in character while in game (didnt talk about last nights awsome Hockey game out loud, ect), replied as my character I was roleplaying would reply to other players. I played D&D and AD&D, as a player and as a DM, as well as countless other RPG games. But none of that relates to the clasification of roleplaying in a single player RPG game, so still lost to be honest as why 1 person thinks they are a roleplayer in KotOR1 or 2 (or JE) and the next player isnt? An example would be the statement Volo half jokingly adds to her posts often. "True Roleplayers think JE>KotOR". LOL, whats a true Roleplayer in a Single Player RPG????? Near as I can tell I use to be a true Roleplayer (*use to be, became to much work, lol) in oNWN but dont see how that effects single player RPGs? I know roleplaying in MMORPGs almost doesnt exist anymore or what is clasified as roleplaying is extreamly dumbed down from what use to be clasified as Roleplaying, but thats MMORPGs, Im refering specifically to Single Player RPGs in my question to you Looking forward to your reply <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not sure I quite follow you, but I'll give my respond to what I did understand Now, if I understand you right, I think we might have misunderstood each other. Nothing seperates player A from player B in a single player RPG game, and I never said there was anything seperating them. What I said was the roleplaying options the GAME offered. We as players aren't much different from each other when it comes to identifying with the character, acting realistic in the enviroments the game sets for us etc. The question is if the game LETS us do this. Which brings me to what I meant: KotORII was good because it offered enviroments and (so I believe, contrary to many others it seems ) goot dialogue options etc. AND on top of that it posed paradoxes and interesting storyline, and THAT made it a good CRPG. Now I've got a question for you: When did you get the idea that I thought anything different of player A and player B? Because other than a roleplayer is more used to bringing their mind into fantasy enviroments, and the fact that maybe we're a little better at dicerning whether there's to many clich

Bought Jade empire and knew before hand it was basically same system as KotOR series so answer is a resounding YES I would!

hehe, Ill buy KotOR3 in a heart beat And PIRATEING sucks. Far as Im concerned you just lost the right to have an opinion if your pro pirating.

The Brothers Sun, or the Brothers Sung? :cool: ---- ALSO: What happened to my J.E. ending(s) thread? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No idea, was about to post the answer to the question you had asked about and wham, its not here. Anyways, if you destroy wheel rather then steal dragon power, the following happens. 1) You go from totally CF to almost fully OP in that one move 2) You get OP ending 3) all bios the same as normal op except one you actually do get a Death Hands bio this time which tells you Although people veiw the binding of Deaths hand to be cruel, DH comes to learn some peace and travels the land trying to redeem himself for all his prior bad acts. All in all not impressed with this ending. Hated that all the evil deeds you did previously a re just wiped away like that. Once again Bioware ignores the CF phisophy and goes with generic good or evil. I could see a CF destroying the wheel and setting the Water Dragon free as that in itself would bring balance back and allow those who a re strong enough to succeed on a even playing feild. But thats not what happens. Anyways, there yas answer Day late I know but I did get around to it! heheh

RolePlaying Gaming is charachterized by interacting with others in a (in the rules of the world you're playing in) realistic surroundings. The key to roleplaying is being able to identify with you charachter, and like when you're drawn into a book you're reading, be drawn into that character. PCRPG (Personal Computer RolePlaying Gaming) must fill out some criteria to call itself an RPG. All uncommon persons in the game must have dialogue. A good PCRPG must have long, realistic and deep dialogue, especially for more important persons. PCRPG is also characterized by free options. You choose where to go, when to go there, who to speak to and which quest to concentrate on, contrary to other games where the game chooses for you. Besides that, RPG is more philosophical and more set upon bringing the player into the game than giving the player an actionfilled experience. I've played D&D(Dungeons and Dragons), AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons), GURPS (Generic Universal RolePlaying System), Storyteller, White Wolf, and other systems for over seven years now, and I still play both that and Live Roleplaying including semi-live. AND I've written my own compendium filling out 150 pages so I think I've earned the right to say I know what I speak of I don't take it as a flame, I'm actually glad that the question is posed because I agree that the term is misunderstood often. Just the other day, one of my friends call Deer Hunter an RPG *SHIVER* But by the looks of the posts on this topic, KotORII isn't as hated as I thought it was thank god. To the one who said Bioware has many fans: Doesn't Obsidian to? I mean they're the old Black Isle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Grunker, Sorry but im not following your answer here. I know what makes an RPG games. What I dont understand is what you (and others) do that seems to seperate yourselves from other players. IE: why are you considered a Roleplayer but player B isnt? Everyone tries to identify with their character so some degree, so immersion isnt the answer. Everyone has the same level of cutomization so thats not the ticket. Like I said, In a Single Player RPG I would never call myself a roleplayer because Single Player RPGs lack the fundamental aspects needed to Roleplay successfully. The game itself can be clasified as a RPG because its focas is on the storyline rather then action. successful RPGs make you care about the character you play and the npc characters in the game. A unsuccessful one fails in that aspect. but neither (no matter how well done) allows the player to be a "roleplayer" any more or less then the next person playing. As I said before, I use to roleplay in oNWN on AOL. To do that I: 1) Learned to speak (communicate) in the Drow language 2) Wrote interactive stories weekly about my character in the setting 3) Stayed in character while in game (didnt talk about last nights awsome Hockey game out loud, ect), replied as my character I was roleplaying would reply to other players. I played D&D and AD&D, as a player and as a DM, as well as countless other RPG games. But none of that relates to the clasification of roleplaying in a single player RPG game, so still lost to be honest as why 1 person thinks they are a roleplayer in KotOR1 or 2 (or JE) and the next player isnt? An example would be the statement Volo half jokingly adds to her posts often. "True Roleplayers think JE>KotOR". LOL, whats a true Roleplayer in a Single Player RPG????? Near as I can tell I use to be a true Roleplayer (*use to be, became to much work, lol) in oNWN but dont see how that effects single player RPGs? I know roleplaying in MMORPGs almost doesnt exist anymore or what is clasified as roleplaying is extreamly dumbed down from what use to be clasified as Roleplaying, but thats MMORPGs, Im refering specifically to Single Player RPGs in my question to you Looking forward to your reply

errr well they already do basically by default (well stay 1 to 2 levels behind you, but nothing serious).

*grins* me either, but man would I be bruised from dueling all day/ every day

Id definately go Handmaiden over Disiple personally. The Handmaiden has a conflicted past but shows strenght, dedication, and loyalty in resolving that past as she learns to move forward. Disiple really didnt impress me what so ever and came off nerdy (for lack of better word) in KotOR2. Add to that the obvious "love" interest or relationship possibilities between a male exile and handmaiden. I always do at least one play through as a female after Ive have explored the male PC role in these games and gotta say, I cant really understand why any female would choose Disiple over Atton (or even Bao) based on personalities presented in game unless the female is looking for someone they can completely and utterly control with no back talk. I personally find characters with a backbone (capably of independant thought and can stand up for themselves with out whining) to be much more appealing when you deal with "relationship" aspects of gaming or really real life as well. To be honest this the same reason Ive never understood the Carth fans out there as Carth came across as such a whiner to me in KotOR1. So many people like to compare Carth to Hans Solo. I just dont s ee the comparison. Hans was stubern, funny, and self assured. None of those traits can be associated to Carth. Atton yes but not Carth. LOL, anyways, got off topic there. As a male Exile Id go with Handmaiden. I have droids that will follow my every command unquestioning, dont need blind devotion like that in people as well As a Female Exile, I still think Id choose Handmaiden over Disiple (if forced to choose between those two only even though Handmaiden not available to females in KotOR2) for the same reasons. Strenght of character is just a much much more impressive personality trait LOL, that even includes the possibility of the love story angle. Disiple reminds me of the nerdy kid back in grade school that would get picked on every day and never stand up for themselves. *grins* course Id take Visas over them all!!!! Top 5 from KotOR1 and 2 and JE: 1) Visas 2) Mira 3) Dawn Star/Handmaiden 4) Silk Fox 5)Bastila

Its stuff like this I just dont get. K2 was a larger game, the storylines were less linear then K1. So how do you explain taking 18 extra hours on K1? I mean if you liked K1 more thats fine, say that and no one should take exception as both were great games. But to say K1 takes 18 hours (minimum ) more is just wrong. Thats like saying JE takes 40+ hours to play. I truely wish people would stop this stuff. It's a fact. K1 took me almost 50 hours to finish, K2 about 32. If you like K2 more thats fine but don't say it's wrong .... i can send you the final savegames if you don't believe. Sorry, I dont buy it. Its the same for those that say JE takes 40+ hours to play. Its unrealistic. I dont care if you have a save game file that shows 50+ hours, that doesnt prove a thing what so ever other then game ran for that amount of time. Doesnt mean you were actively playing it for that amount of time. FACT is K2 was slightly longer then K1, but even if you said K1 took 32 hours and K2 took 50 hours Id call BS on yas. 18 hour difference between the two (more really as you said you didnt complete all the K1 side quests) is NOT in the realm of reality. Both games complete in a 3-5 hour window of each other, not a 18+ hour window. hmmmm interesting. Since K1 and K2 were almost identical in combat (K2 was slightly harder but nothing that warrents any real distinction), im wondering how you came to this conclusion? Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion. Take a look to some rpg forums ... there are a lot of people who agree with me. Ever heard of the force bugs? Ever heard of the Rebalance or Hardcore mod? There is a reason why these mods are made. hehe, I think everyone here knows Im VERY active on the different RPG forums. So why should I take alook at what Ive already seen? Sure some agree with yas, most however dont. If you break it all down, K1 and K2 were pretty much the same difficulty with the exception of Malacor5 compared to Star Forge. Academy was definately harder then Star Forge was but Malak was harder then Kreia. In the end it all balances out. its a fact is it? Wow, I must have missed that memo since both games use the EXACT same engine and graphics!!!! ROFLMAO! Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion. OMG just take a look. Install K1 again .... play it and then play K2. You really need glasses if you don't see the difference. It's the same engine, yeah, this is why i do not understand the worse graphics (less effects). I don't care if a game is made by Obsidian or Bioware or EA or whatever. There is no reason for me to tell "false stuff" about K2 .... i waited for this game since i finished K1 for the first time. I had a lot of fun playing it. But K1 was better in my opinion .... i am tired of people who can't stand criticism on their favourite game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> See thats all you have to say. I accept that (as im sure others do). You prefered K1. All the power to you. I prefered K2 myself but Im not going to sit here and tell you that K2 took 18 hours more to finish, that K2 was the tougher game, ect ect ect. Ill stick to the valid and provable points OR make sure opinionated statements are known as just that...OPINION. Opinion is hardly fact tho, just personal preference. K2 had the better storyline IMO. K2 had the more interesting party NPCs IMO. K2 had a more mature storyline IMO (and Volos to, she just being difficult and refuses to admit it ). Visas is the very definition of sexuality in RPGs (ok thats one is fact not opinion ) Illbleed should be drawn and quartered for mentioning Visas in the same vein as Go-To!!!!!!! (thats just crimes against humanity after all!!!!) hehehe

OMG, tell me this person didnt just lump Visas into same catagory as Go-To!!!!! Dems fighting words!!!!! Visas is the hottest female npc of any of the KotOR games (AND JE)!!!!!! And she had a awsome back story as well Its stuff like this I just dont get. K2 was a larger game, the storylines were less linear then K1. So how do you explain taking 18 extra hours on K1? I mean if you liked K1 more thats fine, say that and no one should take exception as both were great games. But to say K1 takes 18 hours (minimum ) more is just wrong. Thats like saying JE takes 40+ hours to play. I truely wish people would stop this stuff. The ending sucked, no other way to say it. But what did they cut out (that was SPECIFICALLY tied to influence system)? Sorry lost me there. Ive looked at the Restoration stuff (great job by them) but sure havent seen any influence specific stuff cut from the end. What yas talking about? I didnt patch either. Had more bugs in K1 but neither game had game ending bugs (that a simple reboot couldnt fix). hmmmm interesting. Since K1 and K2 were almost identical in combat (K2 was slightly harder but nothing that warrents any real distinction), im wondering how you came to this conclusion? Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion. its a fact is it? Wow, I must have missed that memo since both games use the EXACT same engine and graphics!!!! ROFLMAO! Again, just say you liked K1 more, dont make up false reasons to validate your opinion. I cant argue this as I really treat music as background noise only. (or turn it off and play a CD on stereo instead) hmmm I know what they cut out and STILL find K2 more replayable then K1 because K1 is so linear. I know (from polls and posts on this web site) that a great many people found K2 to have the greater replay value. Closing: Sorry for tearing apart your post but Im getting tired of people making up false stuff about games to try and validate their opinions (be it KotOR1 or 2, JE, Civ 3, what ever). K2 had many faults (just like K1 had), no reason to make stuff up, just stick to the real issues. You like K1 more? Great, K1 was a great game. There is no reason to be ashamed of that by trying to tear down part 2 in areas that were well done.

Council being wiped out was verified by more then just Kreia. Council dead unless KotOR3 is way in the future.

LOL, well to be honest, just other day I did try to do that (not regarding you, just a general comparrison) on Bioware boards. All I got for my effort was a stupid fanboi rewriting the (OBVIOUS) meaning of my post and then flaming it like it was a personal attack on the designers. So explaining it really doesnt seem to do alot of good to be honest (or thats the impression I get anyways). Its like running head first into a brick wall over and over and over, so many times. No matter what you say or do, the end result always going to be the same. LOL, sometimes I REALLY wish I was Jay or Silent Bob (from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back) with a list of names and addresses of people who post on the internet! ROFL (that has to be one of my all time favorite scenes from a comedy).