Dragon age discussion

[Gorth]

Start of old thread

End of old thread

 

I almost spilled my coffee when Oghren started to explain to Wynne how Alistair kept twirling his pike and he even caught him out in the forest doing it, much to Alistairs embarrassment...

[Oner]

I never got that. OTOH Oghren liked to talking about ...playing with Wynne.. a lot.

[~Di]

Weird. I've just finished Ortan Thaig in the Deep Roads, but

when I get to the place where I'm supposed to meet a spider queen, there just isn't one. The Genlock Emissary and a few corrupted spiders were there, but no queen. There was also supposed to be some loot in there, but not a single chest. After the battle I'm supposed to find Branka's journal, but no battle, no journal. Am I so screwed by this that I won't be able to finish the quest? My journal says that I've already found Branka's journal. Too strange.

I'd search the Bio boards, but frankly I simply cannot figure out how to use the search function on those silly "social" boards. Has this happened to anyone else?

Edited November 28, 2009 by ~Di

[Gorgon]

No cure for that kind of problem that I can see, either it's a bug, or a trigger that didn't work like it should. Either way you're screwed unless you have a save close by.

[Tigranes]

Nope, but

if it says you've already found the journal why don't you just go onto the Deep Trenches? Or does it not show up on the map? In that case, enable the console (google it) then use runscript zz_orz_debug, which will open up a dialogue option to teleport anywhere in the Deep Roads. That's how I got past when they wouldn't let me into the city.

 

 

Stuck trying to destroy

Gaxkang

at level 19, Hard - I should be able to handle him...

[Niten_Ryu]

Just finished 2nd run. Dragon Age has definately been worth the money (first run was nearly 80 hours and second was about 50 hours) but I think I've reached my limit and I won't do another run in the near future nor even check rest of the origin stories. Unlike in most games, first run was better for in Dragon Age. Rogue was a gimp in combat but from roleplay perspetive it worked much better. Mage was more fun to play because of better combat mechanics but it didn't help much sice there wasn't any challenge at all, even on nightmare difficulty. Game didn't allow my kind of "chaotic stupid" character, unlike in majority of the most CRPGs. I guess Bioware did listen their fans

 

I'm not sure how'd I rate Dragon Age as there haven't been too many modern CRPGs. Because of technical design limitations, lack of balance (especially since it's original IP ) and boring world, I'd give it 7/10, but if those issues don't bother you, then it'd be 8.5 or maybe even 9.

 

I hope that Dragon Age continues to sell ok, as it might encourage some other developer to create party based CRPG.

[Gorth]

Stuck trying to destroy

Gaxkang

at level 19, Hard - I should be able to handle him...

Let me guess

he dropped The Ring of Gaxkang

?

 

Just kidding, the name seemed familiar

[Azure79]

Nope, but

if it says you've already found the journal why don't you just go onto the Deep Trenches? Or does it not show up on the map? In that case, enable the console (google it) then use runscript zz_orz_debug, which will open up a dialogue option to teleport anywhere in the Deep Roads. That's how I got past when they wouldn't let me into the city.

 

 

Stuck trying to destroy

Gaxkang

at level 19, Hard - I should be able to handle him...

 

I just encountered him on my 2nd playthrough on hard. I thought he'd be really hard, but Alistair and Oghren just hit him, my mage healed and pew pewed with the staff and Morrigan did the same. It was a little dissapointing.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Doing the dreaded Mage's Broken Tower quest. I dislike this long winded puzzle solving quest. Just give me some hack n slash. I usually do this quest last.

[Guest Slinky]

Doing the dreaded Mage's Broken Tower quest. I dislike this long winded puzzle solving quest. Just give me some hack n slash. I usually do this quest last.

I just added you in my list of people who will be sent to a chinese reformation camp

 

Somehow I can see myself as a old geezer in the future, who is still playing Planescape: Torment and shaking his fist at zillions and zillions of hack n slash games.

[Tigranes]

I just encountered him on my 2nd playthrough on hard. I thought he'd be really hard, but Alistair and Oghren just hit him, my mage healed and pew pewed with the staff and Morrigan did the same. It was a little dissapointing.

 

The more I play, the more I find that Dragon Age combat is about finding an equilibrium of damage dealt / damage taken and having counter-actions and provisions for enemy attacks and abilities: set up a situation where you are progressively dealing damage while keeping every limb moving, and then keep those plates on top of those chopsticks. In that sense it's in fact a lot like Final Fantasy combat. I like it, actually, I think it fits the game. After a few tries, I brought in Magebane into the mix to get his mana down, Curse of Mortality to stop him healing and a few extra healing potions. Did the job - when you get it right (or when your party is well geared for it by coincidence) it's all surprisingly smooth passage.

 

This time

I let Loghain live

and his dialogue wasn't so bad, I actually enjoy his characterisation quite a bit. It's not quite 'grahr power hungry' and not quite 'necessity for the greater good', but a rather realistic mix. It's a pity his political movements and his interaction with the banns only came in very small portions. That, and surely the archdemon could have had som eother role than to sit there, roar a little then die. Why is it so crucial to the Blight? Why is it such a big daddie? Why do you need the Grey Wardens? It's all explained, but the explanation is not very convincing, satisfying or leading to any gameplay. It's just a mass of blah blah so that you can kill a big daddie at the end.

 

Shifting the balance of the game to 50% gathering allies and 50% politics / archdemon sabotage (e.g. infiltrating Darkspawn camps, where darkspawn are actually more intelligent and organised than a bunch of throwaway grunts) would have made for some great stuff, even in sequels, but sadly the darkspawn are just packs of XP. Oh well, what 'politics' IS there is quite nice, I like how self-serving, nepotistic and close-minded the arls end up being even as they rally around Loghain the baddie.

[Gorgon]

Stuck trying to destroy

Gaxkang

at level 19, Hard - I should be able to handle him...

Let me guess

he dropped The Ring of Gaxkang

?

 

Just kidding, the name seemed familiar

Melf's minute meteor+haste+lots of summoners and raisers

[Monte Carlo]

In addition to Tigrane's (excellent) post about some of the mechanics in DA, here's my similar round-up of classes.

 

Warrior

 

All about DPS, 2H is gimped, the other two builds (DW / sword & shield) are great. Pump STR, CON and DEX (DEX no greater than 36, swap CON for WILL if you want). It's the middle path for a fun, vanilla game.

 

Mage

 

You will look like a freak with your strange Hugh Hefner lounge-wear and condom hats, but who cares when you are the wlaking equivalent of a Soviet-era Shock Army artillery regiment? Mage = Win Button.

 

Rogue

 

Used to hate it, now realise it is in fact the tricky choice of the renaissance man. Lots of routes to choose, but the main advantage is that if you go lockpicking you will be rich. Seriously rich. So rich that your party will be decked out in the most Gucci kit and you can buy lots of extra skills. If you want to play combat rogue go dual-wielding, if you want to play tactical leader go archery (the arrow of slaying is actually good fun). If you pump coercion + cunning you will also enjoy some dialogue options that your plate-clad and lyrium glugging compadres won't often get. Also, like BG2, going the rogue route allows you to arguably build the best NPC team (unless you are going uber-mage).

 

Cheers

MC

[Gromnir]

"Also, like BG2, going the rogue route allows you to arguably build the best NPC team (unless you are going uber-mage)."

 

am not sure we agree with the bg2 part (jan or imoen were excellent compliments to our party), but is definite true with da. the two jnpc rogues is built wrong. if you don't use respec (and Gromnir doesn't) then each o' the da rogues has 1/2 the talents and skills one would hope for in a rogue... so only way to get a good rogue is to build your own. rogues also require a greater spread of points across various abilities to be successful... can't just dump into willpower and magic as do mages. str, dex, cunning, and willpower is all very important for most rogue builds, and jnpcs simply not get enough points to be effective.

 

our problem with the rogue is that as a class it is unnecessary. make the rogue talents and abilities general available and lose the "class." separate rogue serves no purpose... other than the wacky "overwhelmed" theory postulated.

 

the problem with the 2h warrior is that it cannot be used as a tank. typical player probable wants to rush through the door first and be the leader both actual and geographic. a 2h warrior IS a warrior after all. is not some pansy rogue or mage, right? unfortunately, the 2h warrior, while very effective, is having much less versatility than the other warrior builds, and is also relative fragile. 2h is a big gun that can do extreme high consistent damage. with indomitable active your 2h warrior won't end up on his back or stunned during fights... is no lost combat rounds during which the 2h is failing to generate any damage. unfortunate, to be building a powerful 2h build you is pumping str and willpower... dex and con is useful, but placing points in these stats rob from the true potential o' the 2h warrior: dealing massive damage on a consistent basis. 2h is best v. high armour boss types, but probable seems like a dog v. mobs... and the mobs make up a majority o' the game... but the bosses is the toughest part o' the game.

 

*shrug*

 

however, as we pointed out earlier, we thinks that the enchantable weapons probable give edge to the dual wielder late in game as a clear best warrior build... and the best weapons seems to be 1-h in any event. best 2h weapon may be starfang. if you kill ser cat, her weapon is very nice, but is only tier 6 with two enchantment slots. the dragonslayer sword is neato, but is only 3 genuine tough dragon battles in game. ageless is ok v. darkspawn. there is one genuine powerful maul available real late in game, but is needed to be purchased, and it ain't cheap... and the best battleaxes simply suck compared to the greatswords.

 

the 1h weapon selection is better, and you can potential equip 2 at once. is a double-whammy. Gromnir ain't a power-fiend who needs the best equipment and build to enjoy the game, but it does seem as if the 1-h weapons is superior, and a dw character can equip 2 of 'em. the way the character menu reads, a +4 to attack from an enchanted dagger in the off hand boosts attack for primary hand weapon as well... and such bonuses stack. 6 potential enchantments 'stead of 3, better selection o' weapons, and stacking effects from weapons gives the dual-wielder a serious advantage.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[TheHarlequin]

Just finished my first play though. Generally agree with the last few posts.

 

Some thoughts in no specific order;

 

- While I still take issue with the many poor enviromental textures the PC/NPC models and combat FX are VERY well done and look amazing.

 

- The game world is ok. Not poor but nothing to write home about. They tried the same formula with the demihumans which made it feel 'more of the same'. Both races in massive decline in favor of men. Both have 'lost' most of their power, knowledge and skills over the past 1000 yrs. Seeing dwarves remind me of klingons (feigned honor, assination common to get up in the ranks, family houses at war with each other all the time, the houses make up the gov body, having to prove your warriorhood in combat/proving grounds, you race in decline but your more interested in political infighting, etc) and elves the equivlant of fodder. To me stripping the more common archtypes of elves and dwarfs didnt make it more interesting just makes it... odd. IMO at least and I wasn't impressed, as they tried TOO hard to make it different. It feels forced because it is. I did however like the various human nations and how they were interweaved historically. I found that very interesting.

 

- The main story was good. As interesting or captivating as say MotB? No but for the most part solid and good none the less. I felt more I was playing though a slighty warped story version of LotR then a 'orginial' setting/story. But for what it is, it was good.

 

- Some of the NPCs were REALLY well done and I did feel a kinship to some. Thats to there credit. Where they faultered on the game world, story writting they IMO made up for it in some of the great charactorzations and dialog with party members and NPCs you meet.

 

- Once I installed the add 25 tactical slots to the party mod and the respec mod most of my issues with the combat want away. I could then macromanage the fighting and not micromange it. Much more enjoyable just controling this char and that char as I wanted to rather then touching every one every 5 sec. By default they should have made this game turn based, if they WANT you to by design to touch every char every 5 sec (as been told to me in other threads thats the point) then make the damn game turn based rather shoe horn real time into turn based mechanics. *shrugs*

 

- Once you took away the combat I found the story, as a whole, short and the ending more or less rushed. Get these x amount of objects then go kill the bad guy aka go get these 3 ppl to agree to these alliacnes then we attack the demon. Typical bioware plot just more fluff this time around. Reminds me of the crappy nwn1 plot in fact as its core. But what they lack for being original they make up mostly in executition. As this time around the make this basic framework plot vastly more interesting then nwn1. With much better NPCs and while still in your face foreshadowing, at least as a whole more interesting and involving even if the basic endings to many of the subplots was predictable.

 

- I will prob play it once more though and this time romance leh rather the morg. I have to admit one of the BEST parts of the game was the ending and how your actions effected the game world. That aspect of the game was well done and not only quite interesting to read but leaves a lot of room for a xp or sequal.

 

As a whole a good CRPG, certainly has its faults, some more glaring then others, but a good solid CRPG that has its share of very well done aspects. Now I finished it I'd give a overall score of 7.5 which I think is respectable. A 8.0 if they would fix the massive poor texture issues.

[Volourn]

"2H is gimped"

 

Nah. 2hander does the most damage and can knock creatures down with just a normal hit. That's impressive.

 

And, the npc rogues are absolutely fine, and useful.

[Monte Carlo]

^ Yeah, I think The Harlequin's assessment is fair, I agree with about 85% of it.

 

I didn't really notice the texture issue you mention, but I love the character avatars and combat animations, my only beef is that some of the armour designs are a bit goofy and MMO for my tastes but this is me being picky. I score it a solid 8.5 because I loved the combat - I'm a diehard Infinity Engine fan and love the respect DA:O gives real time with pause combat.

 

The setting, again to be fair, is about as dark and gritty as Bio would ever get: i.e. not very. I was hoping for a Conan vibe more than LotR, but as a LotR homage it's pretty good. Little touches like the warriors cheering you into combat at the end I take my hat off too. I'm pretty cool with it overall, it's a campy vanilla CRPG with flashes of brilliance. Some of the NPCs are great, I like about half of them and it doesn't get better than that for me in any game let alone a Bio one. For me to take Sten all the way, an NPC as fragile as a sparrow when he's meant to be as tough as old boots... fair play to whoever wrote him. Morrigan wins points for the VO and also for the black leather get-up - coolest looking mage in any CRPG (not that it would be difficult - my magic-user clothing issues are a matter of record).

 

As for the music, as ever Mister Z is on the money - kudos to you, sir. Loving the 30 Seconds to Mars too.

 

What would propel DA:O into greatness for me?

 

1. Push the boat out just a few feet more on the setting - do something that would make all of us go.... WTF? The game is solid enough for you to have gotten away with it.

 

2. Make it classless - be brave. DA:O played with the character I wanted to make would have been an awesome experience.

 

3. Less linearity... be confident in the setting. Ferelden is promising, let me explore it not rescue it like an unexploded bomb with the big red LED clock ticking.

 

4. More critters. Slaying waves of the same flavour enemy infantry got old.

 

Anyway, like I say 8 - 8.5 out of ten and the most solid CRPG release of the last ten years. Awful marketing, too much hype but an offering Bio should be proud of. And good luck to Gaider, now get on with writing the XP.

 

Cheers

MC

[Monte Carlo]

"2H is gimped"

 

Nah. 2hander does the most damage and can knock creatures down with just a normal hit. That's impressive.

 

And, the npc rogues are absolutely fine, and useful.

 

And you still like pie, well done.

[Volourn]

"1. Push the boat out just a few feet more on the setting - do something that would make all of us go.... WTF? The game is solid enough for you to have gotten away with it."

 

Like what? You said yourself, the chance of BIO going any darker (after all you can murder children, kill unarmed people, make out with demons, join up with a cult, kill your brother, pimp someone out, etc.)

 

 

"2. Make it classless - be brave. DA:O played with the character I wanted to make would have been an awesome experience."

 

Rogue can be cut, but the mage should be seperate. Too much lore and background for that to be lumped and allow anyone to take spells. Only mages should be able to cast spells.

 

 

"3. Less linearity... be confident in the setting. Ferelden is promising, let me explore it not rescue it like an unexploded bomb with the big red LED clock ticking."

 

Not BIO's style. If that's what you want, you shouldn't be playing a BIO game. They give you enough non linearty.

 

 

"4. More critters. Slaying waves of the same flavour enemy infantry got old."

 

More critters is always good.

 

 

 

Other stuff that can be improved:

 

1. No heath or mana regen.

 

2. Cut the rogue and give the talents to the other two classes.

 

3. Should have two mage origins.

 

4. No forced companions not even in camp. It was very satisfying being able to just kill

Zev when he tries to assasinate you or let Sten rot in his cage

. Heck, there was no real reason why Alistar was forced on you. Game was completeable without him. Afterall, Morrigan had a pretty big role too yet you could finish with out her.

 

5. Some specialization ideas: Dragon Slayer, Grey Warden (I'm shocked that this wasn't in DA1), Ellementalist, Necromancer, Deep Delver.

 

6. GIANTS

 

7. Dwarf noble should have had an oppurtunity to become king.

 

8. Should ahve been non obvious allies to persuade to join you instead of the either or choices.

 

9. Every origin should have had one ally to potentially join them.

 

10. No more cheesy Ser Cauthien type battles.

 

11. Continue the awesome lore.

 

12. Combat tatics shouldn't give extra AI options. It's liveable but not needed that way. just give every character x slots, and be done with it.

 

13. More dialogue between 3+ characters.

 

14. Limit inventory. you should be not allowed to carry 100 suits of armour. It should be limited by both strength and more reasonable carrying capicty and by per character.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Tigranes

[Nihilus5078]

"2H is gimped"

 

Nah. 2hander does the most damage and can knock creatures down with just a normal hit. That's impressive.

 

And, the npc rogues are absolutely fine, and useful.

 

And you still like pie, well done.

 

 

And I'm still wondering what the hell happened to this thread

[Azure79]

I haven't tried a 2H warrior, but there are two items in the game which boost your constitution immensely.

 

 

Lifegiver sold by a dwarven merchant in Orzammar (+10 to constitution with other good benefits) and a blood amulet that gives I think +12 to constitution at the expense of -3 strength and -3 willpower, found in the Cadash Thaig as part of Shayle's personal quest.

 

 

Along with the Blood dragon armor (+50 health) wouldn't that offset the frailty the 2H has? I remember that +attribute items seemed to be cumulative in DA, so wearing all the items together will give a significant boost to health while strength is pumped up.

 

I was going to try this nest time around.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Azure79

[CoM_Solaufein]

My first game I played as a mage but grew board of it. I'm used to being the melee player and not mostly a spell caster. I generally took control of another character like Sten or Alistair and let the AI control my character. My current game I'm more happy with it. Playing as a rogue that specializes in two handed fighting. I probably won't try a warrior since I don't really like the two handed abilities, they are naturally slower in hitting their target. A warrior that specializes in sword and shield isn't very interesting so I would go for two weapon style again. But a rogue is better since they have their rogue abilities. Yes I think I stay with a rogue from now on.

[~Di]

Nope, but

if it says you've already found the journal why don't you just go onto the Deep Trenches? Or does it not show up on the map? In that case, enable the console (google it) then use runscript zz_orz_debug, which will open up a dialogue option to teleport anywhere in the Deep Roads. That's how I got past when they wouldn't let me into the city.

 

Yeah, I just went on into

the Trenches, then started the Void.

 

 

 

Stuck trying to destroy

Gaxkang

at level 19, Hard - I should be able to handle him...

 

LOL!! Totally cute, Bio's play on words between

Gaxkang

and

Kangax

, who frequently handed my party their asses in BG2!

Edited November 29, 2009 by ~Di

[Jaesun]

Nope, but

if it says you've already found the journal why don't you just go onto the Deep Trenches? Or does it not show up on the map? In that case, enable the console (google it) then use runscript zz_orz_debug, which will open up a dialogue option to teleport anywhere in the Deep Roads. That's how I got past when they wouldn't let me into the city.

 

Yeah, I just went on into

the Trenches, then started the Void.

 

 

I REALLY hope you have Shale with you.

[HoonDing]

On my next playthrough, I will count how many times Shale says "Squish".