Update #41: D&D: Dwarves and Doors

[Osvir]

I kinda doubt "smash open door" is going to be A Thing in PE. Same for "smash open chest". Lockpicking can pretty quickly become useless if your fighter can get through them simply by existing. And yeah, you can create mechanics to put greater emphasis on lockpicking (smashing chests destroys some contents, smashing doors draws more enemies, etc.) but those sorts of things are usually varying degrees of lame (Really? I broke a suit of armour busting a lock?) or irrelevant (Did you know that running through a door in the new Xcom is supposed to draw enemies? I wouldn't if I hadn't read it in an interview.).

 

Granted and agreed that it might not be "A Thing", but I do believe that it would make the game interesting.

 

Depends on the Armor and how many times you smashed the Chest, likewise, why would you smash the Chest straight head on? Wouldn't you try to break of one of the edges and/or the [Lock]-structure.

 

Similarly I think "Fighters simply existing" can be turned around to "Rogue's simply existing". What if I don't have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why should I have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why could I not have a Wizard that has all the magical capabilities to remove the Lock from existence/disintegrate/Melt the locking mechanism with Fire Spells/Divination or whatnot? Figuring out the Locking mechanism by reading into the future and/or contacting the God of Locks?

 

Would a Player be able to "contact" Gods for Aid? (Which could be a risk factor depending on what Player standing/reputation is with God?)

 

I believe the possibilities for innovation and interesting mechanics regarding Doors (Expanded "Open, Close, Lock") are near endless. I have to admit that it is rather immersion breaking, and frustrating, when your Rogue is capable of unlocking a Chest but your Strength heavy Fighter on Level 8 can't break it. In-game Art Assets show the Chest as a Wooden Chest (The point here being that if you're going to have non-bash-able Chests, you better make them Rocky, Metallic or Magical visually).

 

"Why" isn't it working? "Why" is it working? Let me highlight something in your post:

 

 

those sorts of things are usually varying degrees of lame 

 

 

Don't get me wrong here but I think this is part of the point:

 

Does it have to be lame? You say the mechanics are lame in other games, great, how can you un-lame it?

 

Smashing Doors:

You broke the door and can't close it -> Demon -> Player o.o -> Run!

 

P:E isn't New X-COM and New X-COM is certainly not P:E. No ill intended to the creators of New X-COM (which is a great game) but I did enjoy Old X-COM more (rewarding/nostalgic/"I-like-retro").

 

Smashing Chests:

The armor doesn't have to break, but consumables in bottles, scrolls, a weapon gets bent. Minor stuff. I believe it would be interesting however, if lower level armor do break. Smash that Chest as a Level 10 and everything that is Level 5 and lower gear gets broken (also negates hoarding). Sledgehammers. Further, how many armors did you pick up in chests in any of the IE games that were not crap? I recall from memory but most of the good loot comes from Bosses and Important Quests/Characters anyways.

 

What I am addressing is not the pointless armors that serves no function except vendor trash, I am curious about all of those stuff that are more logical & makes sense that they would break. If the Armor would break from smashed crate/chest/barrel~use it in [Component] to upgrade your own armor. I believe that would solve the issue of "But but... it's going to break!". Don't worry! If it breaks, recycle

 

Final point and something I wanted to highlight: Recycling gear. Perhaps taking it a bit far but perhaps even being able to recycle the broken components of [Door] or [Chest].

 

EDIT:

Tuckey said:

 

Even if you were not good aligned an option like knocking on the door would be cool so you can lure people closer to the door you just trapped; or perhaps you plan on kicking the door down when enemies get closer, knocking them down.

 

Great idea.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Osvir

[alienvariety]

I noticed in your update you said that:

 

 

doors should always open away from the character using the door.

 

But the image you included with the update showed the door open towards the character using the door? Which one is it?

 

Plus, I would also like to see breakable/ smashable doors.

[zimcub]

I'm also interested if doors can be used as a tactical advantage or disadvantage.

If the door always opens away from the character then you can make a collision detection on the other side if something is blocking it, and can decide with a Strength (or perhaps weight) check to see if you can open it. Pehaps even add a spell that helps opening a door if someone's blocking it. This way you can retreat behind a door where you have a chance to recover stamina or health. (or not, if a golem comes knocking on it)

It would be a little tricky programing the AI whether or not it should also do the same vs the player when it's low on health and resources, but i think it would be more interesting than just have the creature always open the door or never actually do it.

 

As for the armor fitting all sizes, i'm not sure how this will work; i just hope it won't be like in WoW where only helmet and shoulders have different mesh and the rest of the armor is just a paint job.

Edited February 6, 2013 by zimcub

[Osvir]

 

- Secret passageways, a Wizard opening a Portal in a door-frame getting to the realm of the God of Doors?

 

Further expanding: Alundra has a great "World Travel"-feature like this, and it is purely optional (You can find Monuments across the world that you can activate, which takes you to this "other realm" where you can save, heal and travel to other places faster. Must be activated on-location first). Kind of Chrono Trigger and the Room of Time (is that the name?)

[Necx]

Like the facial structures on the dwarf..

 

Smashable doors would be fun..

 

The dwaft update now has the Song: diggy diggy hole in my head...... thanks

[Sensuki]

Just FYI, that is a good level of zoom/character model size ( I don't mean the size of the viewable square). That + 1920x1080 (or what have you) worth of background would look sweet Edited February 6, 2013 by Sensuki

[PoisonWar]

Wow, so you're going to be actually using models as oposed to sprites? Sounds great, has that kind of ToEE feel.

[Luridis]

On Doors: Please make sure enemy detection is properly stifled when the door is shut too. Detection through doors was an annoying mechanic in NWN2, between henchmen opening them and the enemies being piled at the door when you did.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Wow, so you're going to be actually using models as oposed to sprites? Sounds great, has that kind of ToEE feel.

Yeah, they announced it a while ago (maybe even during the KS campaign?) though it wasn't a huge announcement or anything so missing it is understandable. Also some objects like doors are going to be in 3d IIRC.

[some guy]

Yeah, this looks great and all but where is the woman dwarf model?

[greenmonster]

Glad that the Head models do not stop at the neck like they did in dragon age. Stopping at the neck required everyone to have dog collar looking necklaces. This will be much better!

[DakkonZerth]

OH! Feature request: Smashing doors! (...some doors) 

[rjshae]

Are we going to be able to smash doors / chests to open them and maybe have the items break depending on a chance?

 

Well dang it; they were going to have a bunch of animations of characters banging their heads uselessly on the door then collapsing on the ground. Why would you ever put the thought of smashing doors into their heads?

 

Hope they end up with lots of different styles doors, like repaired doors, barred doors, split doors, massive oak doors, talking doors, reinforced doors, stone doors, bronze doors, hot glowing doors, doors leaking a gas or steam, leather doors, porticullis', ... and all kinds of secret doors.

[lolaldanee]

cool update Adam, lots of insight

[Shadenuat]

Yeah, this looks great and all but where is the woman dwarf model?

It's last one on the bottom right.

Pfft, did't you know?...

 

[Azureblaze]

I love to see these updates and I'm super stoked for this game, haven't been this excited in a long time.

 

Thank you everyone at Obsidian/Kickstarter for making this possible <3

[ravenshrike]

Yeah, this looks great and all but where is the woman dwarf model?

Phhhbt. Silly human, everyone knows dwarves are all male and reproduce through mitosis.

[Par4lyz3]

As someone who's currently undergoing education in 3d animation and games in general, reading these posts are extremely interesting. Thanks for giving us an inside look on what's going down. 

[NZSnowman]

Thanks for the update

[Sleet]

Thanks for the updates DEV team! These are great insights to your world and the world you are creating.

 

RE: doors.

 

• Trapdoors? either up or down.
• Mechanical traps on doors (both remove and place) Option: Can a rogue recover the trap components say if a critical success is rolled?
• Magical traps. (both remove and place) 
• Ability to unlock and lock door - based on skill, magic
• Bash doors
• Barricade broken door? Blocking/barring with items in room (last one may be more difficult)
• Listen at doors - based on skill/race - to hear if enemies are near or info on quest(s) etc.
• Magic barring of door with no lock (similar to Hold portal spell)

Doorways have always been a good choke-point for and against player character parties. I hope the path-finding works so one can try and hold the enemies off.

Also, based on size of opponent.

A party of man-sized or smaller characters would have a hard time holding a doorway against giants or other large beings. Same for very small enemies, creatures a few feet tall would have a chance to slip through the front enemy ranks. Perhaps an option would be a free attack on them as they try to slip by.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Similarly I think "Fighters simply existing" can be turned around to "Rogue's simply existing". What if I don't have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why should I have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why could I not have a Wizard that has all the magical capabilities to remove the Lock from existence/disintegrate/Melt the locking mechanism with Fire Spells/Divination or whatnot? 

 

Rogues have bonuses to opening locks, but other classes can take that skill as well.  We won't include spells or abilities that make invested skills obsolete.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Thanks for the updates DEV team! These are great insights to your world and the world you are creating.

 

RE: doors.

 

• Trapdoors? either up or down.
• Mechanical traps on doors (both remove and place) Option: Can a rogue recover the trap components say if a critical success is rolled?
• Magical traps. (both remove and place) 
• Ability to unlock and lock door - based on skill, magic
• Bash doors
• Barricade broken door? Blocking/barring with items in room (last one may be more difficult)
• Listen at doors - based on skill/race - to hear if enemies are near or info on quest(s) etc.
• Magic barring of door with no lock (similar to Hold portal spell)

Doorways have always been a good choke-point for and against player character parties. I hope the path-finding works so one can try and hold the enemies off.

Also, based on size of opponent.

A party of man-sized or smaller characters would have a hard time holding a doorway against giants or other large beings. Same for very small enemies, creatures a few feet tall would have a chance to slip through the front enemy ranks. Perhaps an option would be a free attack on them as they try to slip by.

 

 

I would also like some hidden doors that are in the walls or trap doors as well that may link from map to map traveling through a vertical/spiral staircase, possibly even secret passages too. 

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Similarly I think "Fighters simply existing" can be turned around to "Rogue's simply existing". What if I don't have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why should I have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why could I not have a Wizard that has all the magical capabilities to remove the Lock from existence/disintegrate/Melt the locking mechanism with Fire Spells/Divination or whatnot? 

 

Rogues have bonuses to opening locks, but other classes can take that skill as well.  We won't include spells or abilities that make invested skills obsolete.

 

But perhaps strong characters still could be able to try bashing doors, no? But it will take longer, and it will be much louder, and the door will break. Perhaps the basher will be a bit bruised up as well or slightly off in some skill-regard. In short, is this bye-bye for kickin' in doors too?

Edited February 6, 2013 by IndiraLightfoot

[Racker]

Are there any ideas yet about keeping doors from being the pathfinding nightmares that they were in most IE games (and NWN2), without breaking their use as a bottleneck in battles?

[teknoman2]

what i am concerned with, is the door covering interactive elements. often in BG and even more often in fallout and arcanum, i could not give certain movement orders to my character because the point i wanted to click was near a door and instead of moving, he was opening-closing the door. even worse was when an object i wanted to interact with was near a door or if the loot was at a point i could not click because the door was on the way.