Too little combat and too much talking?

[Archaven]

I'm not sure i just reach Nekataka and most of it just running around talking to people and feeling slightly bored as most of it just explore and talk? I like the balance or how it was implemented in first Pillars. Is the entire game has too much talk and very less combat?

[E.RedMark]

once you reach the sea...you won't have time to talk , and every pirate outta there will want to kill you . Big towns are there for chit chat to get quest . But outside of them...its alot of fighting . 

[Farsha]

There is less fight encounters in the game atm then there was in POE1, as there are no real dungeons in the game atm.
Most side maps are really small areas with 1-2 fights.
Bit shame, we have to hope for good beafy expansions.

Uncharted Islands are nowhere near Endless Paths.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Farsha

[daven]

That's interesting, I think the first game was a bit too much combat. OR that the enemies were uninteresting. I think they may have gone a bit too far this time, because I find the combat more interesting but there is less of it. always leave us wanting more right?

[Zeitzbach]

Doing quests in Neketaka require lots of talking because all factions want to avoid stirring too much troubles as it will alert the other factions to do something. It's logical.

 

And that's kinda why all the combat has been moved to outside Neketaka and towns. All the bounty hunting, small dungeons and so on contain all the fights. PoE I only feels like it has tons of fight because you can't side track or avoid majority of the enemies like in this one.

[1TTFFSSE]

There is less fight encounters in the game atm then there was in POE1, as there are no real dungeons in the game atm.

Most side maps are really small areas with 1-2 fights.

Bit shame, we have to hope for good beafy expansions.

 

Uncharted Islands are nowhere near Endless Paths.

Yeah I almost wish that after balancing PotD devs would just do something like "double" the monsters on those little maps for something like PotD+ difficulty. 

[Dodo00d]

That's interesting, I think the first game was a bit too much combat. OR that the enemies were uninteresting. I think they may have gone a bit too far this time, because I find the combat more interesting but there is less of it. always leave us wanting more right?

Yeah the first POE had too many fights that had no meaning and simply existed to make the game longer. Personally I preferred D:OS 2 approach where every fight had a meaning and was designed to be interesting.

[Yenkaz]

I disagree. Wanna fight about it?

[Mazisky]

There is less fight encounters in the game atm then there was in POE1, as there are no real dungeons in the game atm.

Most side maps are really small areas with 1-2 fights.

Bit shame, we have to hope for good beafy expansions.

 

Uncharted Islands are nowhere near Endless Paths.

 

I'm half game and all dungeons i have gone through are 10 times better than Poe1 ones.

[Starwars]

If you go through all of Neketaka at once you're gonna spend a lot of time talking. If you get bored of that then sail out for a while, a lot of the combat can be found while exploring the seas.

[Zeitzbach]

The one thing good about PoE1 dungeons is that it has more story and culture. This one is bite-size fun, better when difficulty gets fixed.

[M4xw0lf]

I'm not sure i just reach Nekataka and most of it just running around talking to people and feeling slightly bored as most of it just explore and talk? I like the balance or how it was implemented in first Pillars. Is the entire game has too much talk and very less combat?

At least half of the talking you do is setting you up to venture out into the world and kill stuff. Of course if you go and talk to every NPC in Neketaka before leaving again then that's a lot of talking on end.

[IndiraLightfoot]

That's interesting, I think the first game was a bit too much combat. OR that the enemies were uninteresting. I think they may have gone a bit too far this time, because I find the combat more interesting but there is less of it. always leave us wanting more right?

Yeah, there are some well-designed encounters on par with the best White March stuff.

But if you do a lot of Neketaka first, like I did, you become like battle-rearing gladiator, which I unleashed in the Archipelago: poor ships and poor islanders...

Edited May 17, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[algroth]

As others have said here, Neketaka in particular will have plenty of talking, but it is not without its fights either. From bounties to travelling encounters and a few thugs here or there, there's a few fights to find here too - yet there's also quite a few dungeons to explore, between Arkemyr's Manor, the Old City, the Hanging Sepulchers and so on, which are not of insignificant size. Many of the quests you get in the city also lead you to dungeons outside Neketaka which will most assuredly lead to combat - see Poko Kohara or the Oathbinder's Sanctum for example. There are also places like Fort Deadlight or the Undercroft which can offer different courses of action depending on how one wants to deal with them, and one of them is simply to kill your way through.

 

So I think it's really up to how much you explore and how you resolve each quest. I'm personally quite fine with the balance of action and dialogue so far in the game, though usually I prefer games that place more emphasis on the latter so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[whiskiz]

People complained of too much fluff combat in PoE 1.

 

Instead of then making each fight more unique, with a variety of enemy numbers, types etc, they took the easy way out and just made less combat.

 

Less combat or generic infinite fights via naval combat.

 

Because making alot of combat, but making it more unique/varied/impactful is too hard.

Edited May 17, 2018 by whiskiz

[Ninjamestari]

Overall, neither, but Nekataka definitely could use more combat. As for dialogue, the problem isn't the quantity, the problem is the lack of quality.

[Big-Ben]

I believe one of the criticisms that Josh wanted to address in a big way was the criticism that the first game had way too many trash fights. After a while fighting hordes of enemies becomes inane. If you are going to fight, it should be more impactful and meaningful.

 

I mean if you're just running around beating everything you can over the head combat would eventually become a chore rather than a necessary feature. At least in my mind. Fighting endless beetles and spiders is just not my idea of a good time!

[Wormerine]

Curious. I feel like Deadfire doesn't have enough of talking. Every conversations seems to be really rushed. I don't necessarly need a 15 minutes long conversations from PoE1, but I would really like some more background here and there. 

Deadfire certainly has less combat encounters. There are not multilevel dungeons filled with trash fight/after trash fights (ekhm ekhm majority of Endless Paths zzzzzz). It seems there was an effort made to have less, but better designed fights, which is certainly the case. Difficuty is a quite too low overall though. Sadly, no Durgan Battery yet. White March might still remain as top Pillars content. 

[evilcat]

There is a lot of quest collecting, so that is the taking.

Players requested "I want option to talk my way out of fight" or "Less trashfights"

Catacombs are fine dungeon.

You could increase your killcount in some quests, like gloves dudes, D.kingpin guards, withrak trader i suppose. Dont need to kill them, but could. Sometimes they have better gear, so yest they deserve to die.

Altering CityQuest and WildQuests is always good idea.

NoteToSelf: Kill more thugs, get their weapons.

Edited May 17, 2018 by evilcat

[ThacoBell]

I feel like Neketaka is TOO BIG. I went straight there after initial island, I've been there for an irl week. I suggest doing it in chunks. After 4 maps, I'm bored to death of towns already. Gonna clear a few bounties and side quests, then come back.

[Wormerine]

I feel like Neketaka is TOO BIG. I went straight there after initial island, I've been there for an irl week. I suggest doing it in chunks. After 4 maps, I'm bored to death of towns already. Gonna clear a few bounties and side quests, then come back.

Oh absolutely. I think it is designed to be a sort of Hub area. I immediately realised that taking it all in at once is a bad idea. I am over 50 hours in and just recently finally visited all districts (some are still fairly unexplored). The way bounties are designed also encourage you to go in and out of the city. I go to Neketaka, get enough stuff to do, and sail out. Once I am done I return explore a bit more, and head out again.

 

I am loving it. It feels like a dense, lively city, which is difficult to achieve. 

[algroth]

I feel like Neketaka is TOO BIG. I went straight there after initial island, I've been there for an irl week. I suggest doing it in chunks. After 4 maps, I'm bored to death of towns already. Gonna clear a few bounties and side quests, then come back.

 

It's huge, but I for one am loving the sheer density of content within, and all of it pretty damn fascinating too. I feel I sound like a broken record when I say this, but what's impressive to me is also how good a job its sheer aesthetic does at characterizing each faction and culture too - whether by the contrast between the very luxurious and flowery Queen's Berth to the more robust, functional, grounded Brass Citadel speaking to the intentions behind the Vailian and Rauataian companies respectively, or the sheer class/caste divide between the Huana going all the way from the Gullet to Serpent's Crown. It really is the first city I've run across that I feel compares with the likes of Sigil or Athkatla from the IE games, probably even outdoing the latter which I feel might be its most direct equivalent.

Edited May 17, 2018 by algroth

[Moriendor]

Maybe Neketaka became a little too huge for its own good. If you really play Neketaka completionist-style and explore everywhere, talk to everyone and exhaust all dialogue options then you can easily spend something like ~20 to ~30 hours in the city with very little combat (almost all of it in the Old City only).

 

I'm not a huge fan of big cities in RPGs and I have to admit that I got a little tired of Neketaka after two maps (Queen's Berth and Periki Overlook) which took "ages" to fully explore.

Defiance Bay in the first game felt about the right size and had better pacing IMHO. I think that maybe they should have condensed Neketaka a little like make only one map for the palace and the temples, for example.

Or, even if it is a tired old cliche, but put a couple maps under "quarantine" or whatever so the player can only access them later after advancing the plot or something.

 

The way it is, it feels a little bit like too much talking at once, but otoh I prefer it like this instead of having pointless filler combat every time the screen scrolls left or right. Deadfire isn't Diablo so it's fine with me if it has lots of talkie-talkie. Like quite a few things in the game, it could have done with some improvements in the pacing though.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Moriendor

[Voltron]

I felt quite simillar but mostly because in many dialogues I have no option to force a fight. Like for example talking with pirate (being Kind Wayfarer Paladin) and it seems like I have to accept his quest and can't just say "die for your crimes" or something as my character would not work with pirates. That what I miss..

 

 

Sure, I just attacked every pirate after talk and killed them but it's not the same.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

I feel like Neketaka is TOO BIG. I went straight there after initial island, I've been there for an irl week. I suggest doing it in chunks. After 4 maps, I'm bored to death of towns already. Gonna clear a few bounties and side quests, then come back.

Oh absolutely. I think it is designed to be a sort of Hub area. I immediately realised that taking it all in at once is a bad idea. I am over 50 hours in and just recently finally visited all districts (some are still fairly unexplored). The way bounties are designed also encourage you to go in and out of the city. I go to Neketaka, get enough stuff to do, and sail out. Once I am done I return explore a bit more, and head out again.

 

I am loving it. It feels like a dense, lively city, which is difficult to achieve. 

 

I'm a completionist in my first playthrough, and I had passed 57h, when I had fully explored Neketaka (except for two places, where I hadn't any character who was allowed access), but I didn't stay there the whole time. I've done three semi-big loops in the northern part of the Deadfire map (plus a Tikiwara+Poko visit), and I haven't even advanced the 2nd leg of the main quest yet. I love it!

 

That said, I'd loved to have seen even more secrets and surprises (including a sprinkle of hostile encounters, plus perhaps two more dungeons) in Neketaka - yeah, I'm that crazy.

Edited May 17, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot