Companions and Romance

[Ryz009]

TBH, Bastilla was just an example. But You got me there. I totally blanked out on DA:O and romances there were quite enjoyable. It's simply been ages since I last played it. Alistair is also a decent - and most would say a better - example of romance working together with the story, while at the same time being a fun, likeable character to boot (although my favourite from that game will always be Leliana and I won't bugde on that). I'm not so keen on Morrigan though - I think they were trying to capture this magic that was Viconia, but kind of missed the mark - but that's an entirely different topic altogether.

As to why for me BG 2 romances worked - beacuse I do definately agree that they worked - is beacuse of vast timespan of those romances, especially with Viconia. The relationship had time to breathe and develop thoughout the game - we're talking 35-40 convos with a companion here. Romancing a companion also took some effort - your responses mattered and it was deceptively easy to screw up a relationship if you said wrong thing at the wrong time and not all races were eligible. Good luck romancing Viconia with an elf. It all made romancing a fun and rewarding experience. Compare that to modern Bioware approach of "5-7 conversations, keep hitting the obvious flirtatious response, bam - we're in love, let's go to bed" that post-Mass Effect 2 games seemed to adopt. That's what I meant about picking a romance from a buffet - player is no longer putting actual effort into romancing a companion. Screw ups and turn-downs are almost impossible, player is 100% in charge of the situation and just needs to pick the character they wish to romance and that's it. I hope that cleared matters a bit. And if I'm going off-topic, I apologize.

 

 

Eh the all romances not being eligible was a miss for me because Viconia just didn't flirt with an elf full stop. It was no different than not being able to romance Amoen with a dude. There was zero content it was just locked off. Which is fair enough but that doesn't make a romance deep to me. It's not like they had friendship paths and turned down the PC like say Cassandra does to a fem Inquisitor. It was never even brought up. Also it really wasn't? There was always a rather obvious douche response that'd end the romance. There might be one or two traps (sleeping with Aerie too soon or refusing to sleep with her at a certain point) but if you thought about the character it made sense.

 

Also Morrigan was vastly better than Viconia for me. Her story wasn't relegated to her romance, she actually had a friendship route with the male PC, her development again isn't tied up in her romancing the PC and we actually see her change as a person in later games.

 

The modern BW approach of five to six conversations have as much character development as those 35-40 conversations though. Especially since they tend to mix the character development with the rest of the game via banter that's not just cat-fighting over the male PC and an actual friendship route instead of locking it behind a romance like BG2 did. I will never like BG2's romances for that. Too much character content is locked behind a romance that I frankly don't want to play. Also uh...the obvious flirtatious response applies for BG2 as well. I never found those romances hard to initiate (if anything it was the reverse. It was far too hard to end those romances without picking the obvious douche response). Quantity does not equal quality. If anything BG2 was a buffet (for a male character and only a male character) wheres if you were a human or an half elf every single female NPC wanted you and if you played the game there was no way to avoid romancing them outside douche options. My poor half-elf just wanted peace. Like sorry but I'll never understand people placing BG2 romances above the rest of BW romances. They are BioWare romances with all their flaws and lacking a lot of their later improvements.

 

Also when an NPC does initiate people cry about it (looking at you Anders and Zevran) so I can see why they stopped. And the only reason flirt options became a thing is because far far too often something that's just nice would be a romance trigger and people got tired of that so BW decided to be really obvious about what was a romance trigger from then on. ME1 was a massive offender with that where talking about Ashley's grandfather for some baffling reason equaled a take me now.

 

And this is really the last time I"ll mention it sorry thread.

 

Aks pm me if you wish to continue <3

Edited May 12, 2018 by Ryz009

[M4xw0lf]

Xoti and especially Maia were hitting on me way too fast. Turned both of them down, because both beyond the 4th wall as well as in-game I felt I'd just met them. Actually I only could imagine wanting to romance Eder based on time spent together across two games and his character, but apparently we can only have bromance   

[Ryz009]

Xoti and especially Maia were hitting on me way too fast. Turned both of them down, because both beyond the 4th wall as well as in-game I felt I'd just met them. Actually I only could imagine wanting to romance Eder based on time spent together across two games and his character, but apparently we can only have bromance 

 

Wait I do have a question. If you turn Eder down as a fem PC do you still get the option to tell him to leave? (I mean that seems like a vast overreaction to rejection but I can think of one character it'd fit). I wonder how that goes.

[Wormerine]

Well, I think the system is good, I just feel like they skip couple steps. It seems like companions tend to just blast through their conversation triggers. If someone likes your repitations/choices they are free to express it, but I feel another conversation outside "you wanna bang?" would be welcome. I don't feel like I have initiated any of those. I don't feel like any of those characters expressed any interest in my PC of any kind, until they want to romance. I feel romance should be late game/well earned thing, not the first thing you hear from the character after their recruitment. 

The benefit of set in stone/linear development is that writers can set up a nice arch. I liked BG2, I liked PoE1. I really don't have much feelings about any of the Deadfire companions. Who is Xoti, outside of super religious girl carrying a soul-sucking lantern? Her reputation sheet tells me more than out "conversations". Though maybe i's also my expectations. I ma used to walls of text. Interactons characers have are actually pretty neat. Just had a tension between Xoti and Pallegina, which was pretty well done. They certainly feel aware and present this time around, though conversation triggers could use some polishing I think.

[AudreyBee]

I'm someone who went into this game with no preference for who I'd like to romance and then as soon as I saw Eder waiting by my character's side while she was comatose I was like "...hello there." Suffice to say I was pretty bummed when I learned a bit later that he wasn't an option. Him being the dude who stuck by you the longest and looking after you like that really felt like an obvious romance hook and I'm just surprised they friendzoned him so hard. 

[GetMagnaCarter]

I would imagine a relationship with Pallegina would be awkward

 

it would depend on whether or not you liked birds

if you didn't like birds then having a relationship with her may be uncomfortable

if you did like birds she would hate your tastes harming your chances of having a relationship with her

 

so, either way, it wouldn't be likely to work

[Ryz009]

I would imagine a relationship with Pallegina would be awkward

 

it would depend on whether or not you liked birds

if you didn't like birds then having a relationship with her may be uncomfortable

if you did like birds she would hate your tastes harming your chances of having a relationship with her

 

so, either way, it wouldn't be likely to work

 

Yeah that and I've never been fond of Paladin like character romances. Too zealous.

 

 

I'm someone who went into this game with no preference for who I'd like to romance and then as soon as I saw Eder waiting by my character's side while she was comatose I was like "...hello there." Suffice to say I was pretty bummed when I learned a bit later that he wasn't an option. Him being the dude who stuck by you the longest and looking after you like that really felt like an obvious romance hook and I'm just surprised they friendzoned him so hard. 

 

It's such a tease XD

Edited May 12, 2018 by Ryz009

[Aridea]

So far, I have no complaints about the romances that couldn't be fixed with a few more conversations (and fixing all the bugs, of course). I wonder how hard it would be for modders to add in additional dialogues? Though they wouldn't be voiced, of course.

 

To each their own of course, but I'd rather have original writers add more lines, than modders pick that up. While it worked great (imho) for BG games, NWN2 romance pack was.... very out of character. Again personal opinion. 

I do like the romances/relationships in this game. Not as deep or nuanced as promised, but way more interesting than other stuff I played.

 

Edit: What I found weird were conversations with Ngati and Hylea during Maia and Tekehu romances. As if the gods had nothing better to do than monitor who you jump in the sack with. I get that Tekehu is a special fish, but still.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Aridea

[Ryz009]

 

So far, I have no complaints about the romances that couldn't be fixed with a few more conversations (and fixing all the bugs, of course). I wonder how hard it would be for modders to add in additional dialogues? Though they wouldn't be voiced, of course.

 

To each their own of course, but I'd rather have original writers add more lines, than modders pick that up. While it worked great (imho) for BG games, NWN2 romance pack was.... very out of character. Again personal opinion. 

I do like the romances/relationships in this game. Not as deep or nuanced as promised, but way more interesting than other stuff I played.

 

Edit: What I found weird were conversations with Ngati and Hylea during Maia and Tekehu romances. As if the gods had nothing better to do than monitor who you jump in the sack with. I get that Tekehu is a special fish, but still.

 

 

oh god that romance mod. Then there's a Skyrim romance mod that pretty much ripped off that which *shudders*

 

Bishop as a romance could work...but not that way good grief.

 

I was fine with it because the gods are ridiculously petty creatures with few exceptions. Them nosing themselves into the Watcher's business fits them perfectly.

[Zeitzbach]

I won't mind at this point if they just release a True Romance DLC for $5 on each char, 25 for a full pack or something.

[Tarlonniel]

I won't mind at this point if they just release a True Romance DLC for $5 on each char, 25 for a full pack or something.

 

I... won't even post how much I would be willing to pay for that. But it's a lot.

[Tamyn]

 

and instead of responding to "I'm glad you're on our side." with

-> "I'll have you put in a good word with Berath." Or the other option

Instead say:

->"I'm glad you're by mine." and that was the line that opens up the romance dialogue.

 

This one is a guarantee for sure and will happen when you hit tier 2

 

And that's the one and only romance dialogue I've seen from him until the end of the game, so congrats.

 

 

I found a flirt from the Watcher in the conversation you have on the ship right after you recruit Aloth, if you kept his secret. I think you have to pass some kind of insight check or something to enter this part of the dialogue tree, but he says it's too bad his lying about his identity made it so there could never be anything between him and the animancers, and you can reply, "I thought there was something between us." That takes him aback and makes him consider it.

[Strange_Trees]

 

I won't mind at this point if they just release a True Romance DLC for $5 on each char, 25 for a full pack or something.

 

I... won't even post how much I would be willing to pay for that. But it's a lot.

 

 

Eh, considering recent controversies, I don't really think Obsidian has any interest on joining the ranks of companies being raked over the coals for selling 'withheld' micro-transaction  content. Besides, Obsidian has a pretty good reputation for releasing solid amounts of content in paid DLCs (and before anyone says it, the Tyranny portrait pack was a Paradox thing).

 

But I get the sentiment. I would put down money for an 'expanded ranger pet variations' thing. Let my pale elf ranger have a snow leopard, dammit

[soraela]

 

 

I won't mind at this point if they just release a True Romance DLC for $5 on each char, 25 for a full pack or something.

 

I... won't even post how much I would be willing to pay for that. But it's a lot.

 

 

Eh, considering recent controversies, I don't really think Obsidian has any interest on joining the ranks of companies being raked over the coals for selling 'withheld' micro-transaction  content. Besides, Obsidian has a pretty good reputation for releasing solid amounts of content in paid DLCs (and before anyone says it, the Tyranny portrait pack was a Paradox thing).

 

But I get the sentiment. I would put down money for an 'expanded ranger pet variations' thing. Let my pale elf ranger have a snow leopard, dammit

 

Opposed to a separate DLC for romance, it would be nice if they made sure to acknowledge that in the DLC, in say like: responses in normal conversations change depending on your relationship just like how your trait inclinations can garner different responses.

 

As much as I would like events for relationships, I find I also really like how natural it feels if they just have slight variances to their conversations or even tonal changes when referring to you. Especially since it's top down and text based, the pay off feels really good when its present in their vocal delivery that: 'I care about this person I'm talking to'.

 

Also I would kill for a familiar or hunting partner perk

[Tarlonniel]

Just finished my Tekehu romance run and I quite enjoyed it. I could've done without yet another "the lovers part" slide, but I liked the wording on this one better than Aloth's, so I'm not really upset. I paired him up with an Island Amaua Watcher from the Archipelago and chose to support the Huana, which made for a very interesting story all around.

 

And I christened the Watcher's ship "Sharkboy", which led to all sorts of double entendres which I'm sure Tekehu would approve of

[Kenji]

Ah, Pallegina, the ultimate tsundere.

[Aridea]

 

oh god that romance mod. Then there's a Skyrim romance mod that pretty much ripped off that which *shudders*

 

Bishop as a romance could work...but not that way good grief.

 

I was fine with it because the gods are ridiculously petty creatures with few exceptions. Them nosing themselves into the Watcher's business fits them perfectly.

 

 

I don't mind sappy love stories when they fit the characters, but turning Bishop from Chaotic evil **** to a doormat wasn't the best of choices.

 

You may be right about the gods. I didn't mind it as much as was surprised by all the attention, especially since the gods didn't meddle much in the first game. But I guess since our Watcher opened that can of worms he/she now has to live with the consequences. Its like a personal god retinue around them in addition to all those spirits.

 

 

 

But I get the sentiment. I would put down money for an 'expanded ranger pet variations' thing. Let my pale elf ranger have a snow leopard, dammit 

 

 

I would definitely spend much more than I would dare to admit on this :D 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Aridea

[Midian13]

 

Xoti and especially Maia were hitting on me way too fast. Turned both of them down, because both beyond the 4th wall as well as in-game I felt I'd just met them. Actually I only could imagine wanting to romance Eder based on time spent together across two games and his character, but apparently we can only have bromance 

 

Wait I do have a question. If you turn Eder down as a fem PC do you still get the option to tell him to leave? (I mean that seems like a vast overreaction to rejection but I can think of one character it'd fit). I wonder how that goes.

 

 

You can tell him to leave.  I tried it, and he responds "After everything we've been through you want me to leave because of this?"  Or something like that.  You then have one more chance to change your mind, or tell him to leave.  If you stand by him leaving, he will, and your party members will each say something to him.  Strangely though his quest still remains active in your journal, might be a bug, I don't know since I reloaded and went with a different answer.

 

I'm someone who went into this game with no preference for who I'd like to romance and then as soon as I saw Eder waiting by my character's side while she was comatose I was like "...hello there." Suffice to say I was pretty bummed when I learned a bit later that he wasn't an option. Him being the dude who stuck by you the longest and looking after you like that really felt like an obvious romance hook and I'm just surprised they friendzoned him so hard. 

 

Same.  Though it was nice to see they had Serafen call Eder out on "fooling" the Watcher about his feelings.

[Kenji]

Xoti and especially Maia were hitting on me way too fast. Turned both of them down, because both beyond the 4th wall as well as in-game I felt I'd just met them. Actually I only could imagine wanting to romance Eder based on time spent together across two games and his character, but apparently we can only have bromance 

Queue "Guy Love" from Scrubs

 

Really tho, Eder's a bro.

[Ryz009]

 

oh god that romance mod. Then there's a Skyrim romance mod that pretty much ripped off that which *shudders*

 

 

Bishop as a romance could work...but not that way good grief.

 

I was fine with it because the gods are ridiculously petty creatures with few exceptions. Them nosing themselves into the Watcher's business fits them perfectly.

 

I don't mind sappy love stories when they fit the characters, but turning Bishop from Chaotic evil **** to a doormat wasn't the best of choices.

 

You may be right about the gods. I didn't mind it as much as was surprised by all the attention, especially since the gods didn't meddle much in the first game. But I guess since our Watcher opened that can of worms he/she now has to live with the consequences. Its like a personal god retinue around them in addition to all those spirits.

 

 

Yeah it really wasn't.

 

Sadly. Plus the scenes where they're all together they do come across as squabbling children save Berath whose mom trying to get everyone to calm down.

 

You can tell him to leave.  I tried it, and he responds "After everything we've been through you want me to leave because of this?"  Or something like that.  You then have one more chance to change your mind, or tell him to leave.  If you stand by him leaving, he will, and your party members will each say something to him.  Strangely though his quest still remains active in your journal, might be a bug, I don't know since I reloaded and went with a different answer.

 

I'm someone who went into this game with no preference for who I'd like to romance and then as soon as I saw Eder waiting by my character's side while she was comatose I was like "...hello there." Suffice to say I was pretty bummed when I learned a bit later that he wasn't an option. Him being the dude who stuck by you the longest and looking after you like that really felt like an obvious romance hook and I'm just surprised they friendzoned him so hard.

 

Same.  Though it was nice to see they had Serafen call Eder out on "fooling" the Watcher about his feelings.

 

 

Yas that's perfect. It's going to be be so delicious when my more petty Watcher reaches that point. They'll probably replace poor Eder with Rikke.

 

And yeah it's pretty trolly for him to be the friendzone option XD

[Aridea]

 

 

Xoti and especially Maia were hitting on me way too fast. Turned both of them down, because both beyond the 4th wall as well as in-game I felt I'd just met them. Actually I only could imagine wanting to romance Eder based on time spent together across two games and his character, but apparently we can only have bromance 

 

Wait I do have a question. If you turn Eder down as a fem PC do you still get the option to tell him to leave? (I mean that seems like a vast overreaction to rejection but I can think of one character it'd fit). I wonder how that goes.

 

 

You can tell him to leave.  I tried it, and he responds "After everything we've been through you want me to leave because of this?"  Or something like that.  You then have one more chance to change your mind, or tell him to leave.  If you stand by him leaving, he will, and your party members will each say something to him.  Strangely though his quest still remains active in your journal, might be a bug, I don't know since I reloaded and went with a different answer.

 

I'm someone who went into this game with no preference for who I'd like to romance and then as soon as I saw Eder waiting by my character's side while she was comatose I was like "...hello there." Suffice to say I was pretty bummed when I learned a bit later that he wasn't an option. Him being the dude who stuck by you the longest and looking after you like that really felt like an obvious romance hook and I'm just surprised they friendzoned him so hard. 

 

Same.  Though it was nice to see they had Serafen call Eder out on "fooling" the Watcher about his feelings.

 

 

To be honest its the reverse of Xoti situation. People complain she hit on them when all they did was show her kindness. Eder is your best friend so you could argue he had never mislead your character, just showed them kindness and stuck by them through thick and thin. This doesn't necessarily equate love, or rather its a different kind of love - like sibling/friend, i think. It feels like real life.

[Strange_Trees]

To be honest its the reverse of Xoti situation. People complain she hit on them when all they did was show her kindness. Eder is your best friend so you could argue he had never mislead your character, just showed them kindness and stuck by them through thick and thin. This doesn't necessarily equate love, or rather its a different kind of love - like sibling/friend, i think. It feels like real life.

 

Huh, that's a really good observation. Given that there's the option to ask him if he has feelings for the Watcher exists, it seems to put the player in the space of misinterpreting a characters intentions. Edér is written as a very genuinely warm and friendly character, but that alone doesn't translate into romantic interest.

 

Interestingly, I recently heard a banter between Edér and Pallegina about the topic of having kids, and he admits he does sort of want them someday, but events have never really quieted down for him. So it got me thinking that from a character standpoint, it really makes sense that the Watcher just might not fit what he had in mind for a partner. If the Saint's War hadn't happened, he likely would have just stayed a farmer (or maybe took up at the temple of Eothas), married a nice girl, started a family, and so on. But the war happened, tore his family apart, and with the Hollowborn crisis, there never seemed to be even a reason to reevaluate ones life goals. He even says, he never really thought about getting emotionally tangled with someone for pretty much 20 years.

[Wormerine]

Frankly Takehu hitting on my male orlan Watcher, feels... how would that work exactly? I am molested by my own companions.

[Ryz009]

Frankly Takehu hitting on my male orlan Watcher, feels... how would that work exactly? I am molested by my own companions.

 

Takehu is the kind of person who'd hit on anyone though

 

As for how it'd work ask Serafan. He probably knows by first hand experience.

 

(That said why the hell is everyone so quick to get approval but Aloth? Aloth please. I just want your quest!)

Edited May 13, 2018 by Ryz009

[Yenkaz]

Xoti lost any romantic interest from my character when she exploded in Pallegina's face (you can disagree with my friends, but you better damn show them basic respect!) Started showing interest in Maia instead - I mean, I've got a god as a wingman so that's interesting.